Far North Racing Website Overhaul in Progress

[Scott McIntyre]

I'm seriously considering uploading all the data files from each event too

That would be awesome!

 

[DG-FNR]

Autocross to Win got some more updates over the holidays, and Far North Racing got some small tweaks.

DG

 

[jtmcinder]

The bit on weight transfer is a good start, but I would suggest three changes which are all requests for more.

First, I would not only use your new terms for the parts of sprung weight transfer that operate directly vs through the suspension. I would include some of the older terms such as "instantaneous" vs "delayed" (or "instantaneous" vs "controlled"), for example, because they make it more clear why the distinction is important. They also help explain why some set-ups have great turn-in and then wash out, while others don't turn in so well, but have great steady-state cornering.

Second, it seems odd to discuss all of this without defining the roll couple. If readers are going to link what you've written with what others have written, they could use this term.

Finally, I would add much more to the section on altering the roll center. This isn't as difficult as you are making it seem. There are, for example, OTS parts to alter the front roll center on strut-based cars, such as an Evo, and these are very important (assuming that the rules under which you race allow them). On 2G DSMs (and other non-struts), you have several options involving either changes to the inboard points (which is easy for the upper arm) or changes to the lateral arms' lengths (which is, again, only easy for the upper arm). We recently had a discussion on here about how far to lower the front upper inboard pick-up which would have benefited from your input. We were not only trying to get more bump-camber, but also get the RC back up after excessive lowering.

 

[arrowhead]

Could you supply a link or info on discussion of suspension points that you had recently.

Thanks

 

[jtmcinder]

And here I was thinking the stuff that *I* did in the 70s caused memory issues. You participated in said discussion, dude: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/416322-whats-wrong-wih-2g-suspension-opinions.html

 

[turbotalon1g]

Thanks for updating here DG, I always enjoy reading your site.

 

[greengoblin]

I always enjoy reading your site DG and sill always come away learning something new.

Thanks for the update.

Kevin

 

[arrowhead]

And here I was thinking the stuff that *I* did in the 70s caused memory issues. You participated in said discussion, dude: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/416322-whats-wrong-wih-2g-suspension-opinions.html

Thanks for reminding me about that discussion. But anytime I see a new post about suspension I try to see if I can learn something new as I am sure you do too. As far as the solution you give for the control arms I think there is much more that could be done to improve this set up.
I am far away from being an expert or even very knowledgeable on these cars,
had never own one, never work or driven [in comp.] one a dsm I mean, so I am always trying to find new info so I can better educate myself. If the solution was as simple as you stated there would not be 100s of threads about this subject, not that I dont understand what your mod was since a arms have been around before the 70s. What is it that Robispec changes on the p/u points and costs over $1m.?
My little experience has always been w/ RWD all motor cars and like I mentioned in that other THREAD maybe you could give a better explanation of it or better a drawing for everyones benefit.
I have always follow your posts since you make good points but your explanations sometimes are shallow.
So next time you see a post about suspension I most likely be there asking questions and if I am not maybe you can PM me and give me chance to learn more.
Better yet give some results w/ track times of before and after mods.

Thanks for your contribution to this forum.

arrowhead

 

[jtmcinder]

Cool. My $.02 is to read everything that you can find, no matter the source. I have found that the differences between how people explain things can cause the most confusion and deepest thinking and then, often, the largest (and often sudden) gains in understanding. One of those places for me was in the difference between instantaneous and delayed weight transfer. For a long time, the idea that the cornering force acts on the sprung mass through the roll center was just too messed up for me to really get. I was obsessed with the idea that - of course (in my mind) - the cornering force acts at the tire's contact patch, which is how some book describe it. It was only when I started seriously looking at strut-based cars that I began to really get it. And then I remembered listening to an expert explaining why some strut-based cars can actually do better tight turns than double-wishbone. (In particular, why some F-bodys often autocross better than some Corvettes.) That made a difference for me, but I'd never have been poking around in this if I limited myself to information directly relevant to 2G DSMs.

I really stink a making pictures on computers (and, if you read my tech articles on diffs, you'll see I often just steal pictures from other people). Maybe if I get a scanner I can just draw the pictures by hand and then make a jpg. I'll give it a shot.

 

[arrowhead]

Thank you for your idea about reading your posts again.
I have already done so about 2 or 3 times before and I always p/u something new,
very informative.
I have read many books or articles on suspension, from Mark Donahue to how to build a mini stock, and always learn something new.

Even if I do not do autox or slaloms some of the info crosses over to road racing whjch is what I have done 95% of the time on cars.
Roll center. CG, inertia, turn in, braking, weight transfer, caster, camber, toe, are all common in auto racing. All of your explanations are very clear and how to address each to a better handling car.

I have not read about torque steer in your posts, maybe it is something you may want to add.

Thanks for your suggestions.

arrowhead

 

[jtmcinder]

Please start a new thread on whatever you'd like to discuss in the Handling forum. At this point, we're rather rudely spamming up Dennis' thread here....

 

[arrowhead]

Please start a new thread on whatever you'd like to discuss in the Handling forum. At this point, we're rather rudely spamming up Dennis' thread here....

With all the respect you deserve I must disagree I am only making a sugg to DG just as you did on terminology and on his 1st post he asks for same at bottom of post.

If I were interested in fighting for Arrowhead's love, then I'd probably post a link to Fallacy: Ad Hominem but I think that I'll just let you have him.

Welcome back, Dennis. Sorry to see that some things haven't changed.

WHY are you recommending that awful book and no one has to fight for my love it is free.

Do I sense something here?

Maybe he does not want me even if you are giving me away!

arrowhead

 

[talonTSIDriver]

Thanks Dennis for updating your site. I've seen it linked many times over on various automotive sites. THANKS!

 

[arrowhead]

Holy crud! Andy! I've been searching for you for a while since I found the key-fob but lost your name and address! http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/hangout/406568-if-you-bought-cinder-please-contact-me.html And look at your avatar ... what a stunningly beautiful car, dude!

Arrowhead: yes, there's a lot of baggage in the background that maybe you don't know about. I shouldn't even have tried to make suggestions to Dennis.

I dont know about it,, dont want to know, dont care really,
Shame, both of you guys I know have made great contributions to this forum.
Even if I am new to this forum I have experience with other cars, and able to think for myself, anyways I will drop this now.

thanks
arrowhead

 

[nitroazz]

Dennis;

Thanks for the updates on the sites.

Are you still posted in or are you out now?
I still can't believe that I never even heard of these sites when I was still in London Ontario.

Thanks,
Zakk