Ext gate 16g set up

[supermech21]

I have read over the forums quick search on 16g ext gates, couldnt find what i wanted.

How many ext gate 16g's are there?
How hard is it (simply weld the flapper shut and get a manifold or o2 set up for external, right?)?
Which is more beneficial, manifold mount or o2?
Will there be any issues with a FP manifold running a ext gate(to close to fan/radiator)?

Im looking for a manifold/wg i can grow with the 16g I have right now. Eventually in a year or so im going to run a 50 trim size turbo.

Thank you, and im sorry if i missed this somewhere

 

[Mitchel63]

There's quite a few of us around.

For a manifold mounted gate, you need to weld the flapper shut. For an O2 mounted gate, you need to remove the flapper, or just let it dangle open. I ran like that for years and while I'm sure it doesn't give optimum performance, it was fine.

I've heard arguements for both mounting positions. Personally, having the "waste" exit after the turbo makes more sense to me. With a 16G, it is just less work to run an O2 mounted setup.....avoids welding.

I have an FP manifold and my gate mounted on an old Victory Performance O2 sensor housing. I have no space issues with a Fluidyne radiator even, of course, it has been years since I ran a driver's side fan.

 

[OneLove]

I just finished up a 16g external gate setup. Mine is mounted on my manifold. All you have to do is get the flapper welded shut and then get a dumptube made. I finally can hold boost. I held 8psi to redline, and tonight im going to tune for 18psi to redline. Im happy with the ease of controlling boost and not worrying about creep. Hafe makes a nice manifold setup for a tial 38mm. Im going to upgrade to that soon.

 

[supermech21]

I just finished up a 16g external gate setup. Mine is mounted on my manifold. All you have to do is get the flapper welded shut and then get a dumptube made. I finally can hold boost. I held 8psi to redline, and tonight im going to tune for 18psi to redline. Im happy with the ease of controlling boost and not worrying about creep. Hafe makes a nice manifold setup for a tial 38mm. Im going to upgrade to that soon.

Thank you both for your responses.

What waste gates are you guys using? In my research the turbonetics is junk, tial is primo. Also i feel that mounting it on the manifold is far more effective, take the air out before it ever gets there.

Checking on the hafe right now, is this a upgradeable manifold that i can grow with?

I hate to live up to my reputation on here but here goes a noob question, how much power am i looking at making with a ext 16g and everything else. Full 3", Built bottem end(bored .020 and 8.5 cr), light port 1g head, full 1000cc inj, dsm link, upgraded manifold(both), FMIC(un sure which one to get), and all IC pipes running a greddy bov.

What is a good upgraded FMIC, either its 1100 or so for a really nice set(pipes and all) or the others just seem to cheap...Im skeptical about running different intercoolers with different hard pipe set ups, waith all the different designs out there...

The SRT was always so much easier to buy parts for

 

[OneLove]

Ets front mounts are nice. Go with a tial wastegate, thats what most people use and is proven. Also you could look in to synapse wastegates, it seems like they have nice stuff. There isnt much info out there on the HAFE manifold that i could find. I just like the price.

In my opinion mounting it on the manifold is more effective if you think about it, Unless you port the shit out of the 02 housing and the turbo. Most people wont agree though.

Im very impressed with my tial. It feels so good to hold boost for the first time in 4 months.

Are you planning on running pump, meth, race gas or what?
Its hard to say how much power you will make...
With a built motor, dsmlink with a good tune, and meth, i think you could be looking at 400whp+. Theres someone on here that just made 499 whp running e85 with a 16g on the stock bottom end. Now thats badass.

 

[Black_Bullet]

I run the Fp manifold and I plan to put an external gate on my 16g setup.
If you are looking for quickest spool time and max boost and you are tuned for it
I suggest putting the stiffest spring combo that they offer ( i believe its a 21 psi spring in the Tial setups) thats what i am going to do.

This will also be good for those planning on upgrading the turbo in the future also, and no more boost creep or undesired spike or uncontrolled unconsistent boost response.

And o2 mounted external gate is always better than a manifold mounted gate, there are threads discussing this.

 

[supermech21]

Dumb me, pawn to my own noob question... Im looking for a number on 93 plus a dash of meth(running like a m3 nozzle) and then a 110 number.

To be honest with you i havent been on these forums that long and i dont know the tuner and car that well but i call bs on the 499 or whatever...thats a lot of power to make a small engine with a tiny turbo on it.

As far as a tuner, this is one area im unsure of? I just want to make sure im seeing this all correctly:

DSMlink - You tune, fully customizable(fuel trims, idle, stutter, inj sice selection, timing control). Multiple tunes. Price 545ish, need a eprom.

DSMchips(keydiver) - Some one else tunes for you. Fully customizable yet there not there to fully dial in. email flash or do i literally(physicaly) send my ecu back to have it re tuned. Only one tune. 140ish.

Is this correct? My only gripe with the dsm chip is that i only get one tune(correct). I really want a 93 and 110 balls out agressive tune. I ran the blow through set up on my last GST and i want to run that again.

Thanks, any projections...i would be ahppy with 360 pump/meth and 385 race...

 

[supermech21]

I run the Fp manifold and I plan to put an external gate on my 16g setup.
If you are looking for quickest spool time and max boost and you are tuned for it
I suggest putting the stiffest spring combo that they offer ( i believe its a 21 psi spring in the Tial setups) thats what i am going to do.

This will also be good for those planning on upgrading the turbo in the future also, and no more boost creep or undesired spike or uncontrolled unconsistent boost response.

And o2 mounted external gate is always better than a manifold mounted gate, there are threads discussing this.

Can you provide some insight or a link? Im sorry i missed those threads.

If a o2 mount is better(and testing shows) then is there a o2 i can get, set up for this that i can run with a 50 trim sized turbo later on?

 

[OneLove]

No bs with the 499 whp. Just a really good tuner. Go find the thread.


Just get dsm link.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Can you provide some insight or a link? Im sorry i missed those threads.

If a o2 mount is better(and testing shows) then is there a o2 i can get, set up for this that i can run with a 50 trim sized turbo later on?

Like I said, I prefer a external w.g. mounted on the o2 housing.
The off the manifold versions, I know Sbr used to make one, and there was arguement on thier performance, since they were made to come from the # 1 cylinder and that isnt ideal and ive heard of people speaking of "reversion" issues. If its on the manifold but mounted at the collector in the center then its probably ideal but id still prefer a o2 housing mounted external gate imo.
All you have to do is use the search though and stuff like this will pop up.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/292686-where-should-i-mount-my-external-wastegate.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...er-go-tial-wastegate-exhaust-manifold-o2.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bol...light=external+gate+on+manifold+vs+o2+housing

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tun.../292196-499awhp-16g.html?highlight=499whp+16g

 

[supermech21]

Thank you for the links, i am learning a lot. When i made the thread the forums suggested top 5 links closest to my thread, i read and it wasnt what i wanted...

Thanks anyways. To be honest with you i still dont see the point of a o2 mount ext gate over a manifold. In the one thread some jackass just kept attacking SBR for some reversion comment(i donnu maybe they let people down like they do the srt world).

If you think bout it, the waste gate is there to regulate boost via detecting the optimal level of boost, once that is reached the gate opens up to keep a constant preassure hitting the turbine. Very complicated if you really think about it nd its amazing how well some of these ext gates regulate boost with as fast as the air is coming in. Either way, its just a valve that opens up, so why should it matter where it takes the air out. Whether it be from one specific runner or all? Its not like adding fuel and taking out fuel. You would want that calculation to be affected over all cyl not just leaning on one cyl, understand?

Either way i will go with a o2 mount simply because there is more support as well as its less tubing to run for the dump.

Any input on the dsm chips vs dsm link? I understand they are 2 different beasts, for 2 different types of car owners...Once again, and ive searched(sorry if you find it in 2 seconds, im new here) can you have more than one tune with the dsm chip or is that a single tune, burned to your ecu, and the only way to change is have a new tune re burned?

 

[RipperXX]

I think you can see pics of my external in my gallery.

Tubular o2 from extreme psi w/ 38mm Tail waste gate routed back into the exhaust. I went this way for a couple of reasons.

Removing the OEM waste gate is not hard so long as you have a good hack saw blade (still takes a good min to cut though the arm as it is strong as hell) What I did was cut the arm off inside the housing, where it is holding the flapper. Toss the flapper to the side, this gave me some slack to pull the arm out so I could cut the outside of the arm with a hack saw without damaging the exhaust housing. after that I cut the shaft so it was just as thick as the housing and welded it in place to seal the housing.

Not a big deal to someone that has a 63yr old GM tech for a father who has any tool you could want. But might be for some.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Any input on the dsm chips vs dsm link? I understand they are 2 different beasts, for 2 different types of car owners...Once again, and ive searched(sorry if you find it in 2 seconds, im new here) can you have more than one tune with the dsm chip or is that a single tune, burned to your ecu, and the only way to change is have a new tune re burned?

I run a chip in my eprom ecu, but I have my the program and software and etc to reburn my own chips at home whenever I want to, therefore I wont have to wait on a reburn from keydiver ( KEYDIVER Chips - DSM ECU Tuning ) or whoever else would burn them.

If you just want a decent quick base tune just get a keydiver chip ,
if you want to go deeper into tuning your car to the tee and having the convience of tuning on the fly and making changes as you please, then go for dsmlink.
Both setups offer superior control over a piggyback tuning system such as a safc/ or using a gm maft by itself to tune.

As far as you running a o2 dump off your external gate, just make sure its setup properly not to dump directly into the radiator or other vital components like I have seen in some of my friends cars. A con to dumping Ive heard is that is triggers fake knock counts to our already sensitive oem knock sensors.

GL