Exhaust Manifold : SBR Vs FP

[snox135]

I'm not sure how thick there cast manifold is, but they are still cracking

 

[KAOTIC95gst]

I am on my brothers name but have you thought of spending a little bit more for an equal length manifold? I use the dnp and so far its proven itself.

 

[daren_p]

First time I checked under my heatshield with the SBR mani after 6 months of use, I found 2 external cracks that were each about half an inch long. If you want to know how much use it had, the mani wasn't even covered in rust yet. Wasn't impressed with that at all but didn't want the down time so I didn't bother to send it back. I have no idea what it looks like internally but I will find out in the next few days when I swap turbos. One of the FP mani's will probably be in my future once they work the heat shield out & depending on what the SBR mani looks like now internally, this might happen sooner then expected.

Well I got another look at my SBR mani after 2 summers use & I'm very unimpressed with it. The 2 cracks that were in the collector area are now 2 & 3 "s long. When I looked on the underside there are about 4 or 5 more cracks that are 2-3 "s as well in the runner & collector divider area. Even my stock 2g mani only had one crack in the collector divider area that was maybe .5" long & this was after 6 or 7 years, what a huge waste of money that SBR mani is

 

[Shane2GSX]

Putting the wastegate on a single runner is not a good place for it.
It should be off the collector or the 02.

Why is that? I've read this a few times, but I haven't got an answer as to why this is so bad?? I know many people do it with success.

 

[snox135]

Sorry, no single runner wastegate flanges on our manifold. People still do that?

What happens if you need to WG more than 25% of the flow out of the motor to hold motor down to a certain boost? Does that mean that some of the flow from the 3 other runners has to travel backwards down the #1 runner in order to get out of the WG? That is rhetorical of course, do not attempt to answer, we all know how poor of a solution that truly is.

This manifold is designed to support the FP30 turbos, and they all have integral WG ports made into the turbine housing so that WG flow can be drawn equally from all runners. Of course most turbos are made this way with internal gates, and any of those will work rather well with this manifold.

well, back to the lab.

from the fp thread

 

[Shane2GSX]

Well, that sucks for me. Why do so many people do this then?

Thx btw.

 

[TSIMonsteR]

People who run slow boy racing have slow cars

We just had a local guy running SBR "junk" break the auto AWD record. Let me tell you, it was VERY slow!!

Anyway, to OP, in my opinion, at this point, the SBR mani should not even be considered. GT Mani if you are on a budget, and FP otherwise.

 

[CPHunter]

damn, didn't know there was so many problems with slowboy products til i did a search. im just trying to get my moneys worth if i was gonna spend 350 on a manifold. i am running a Tial off the 02 housing and my GT2871R does have a Mitsu Housing

 

[turbo addict]

Why is that? I've read this a few times, but I haven't got an answer as to why this is so bad?? I know many people do it with success.

You get an unbalanced flow through the head. Very low back pressure on the wastegate cylinder and lets more air into that cylinder (intake air flowing easier from low back pressure and more air for the same fuel) and is leaner. And if you can balance with a standalone you still have uneven stress. Plus once you dump most of the volume out of that cylinder and the other cylinders start to try to get out through the wastegate the exhaust from the other cylinders has a real hard time trying to make it out backflowing up the manifold, (not designed to flow that way, just follow the path out of one of the other 3 cylinders and back up the wastegate cylinder and out, sucks.)
P.S. and it sounds like poop.

 

[Shane2GSX]

^ Now that makes sense. Thanks for helping me with that.

My other option is to send Punishment my stock O2 housing and have them mount the WG on the collector. They said they can do this for me.

But a few guys on Link forums told me this is bad as it will eventually fall off, and to do that it must be on the top of the manifold where there are guides that will have to be drilled through, that will hurt the flow of the manifold, creating slow spool.

I'm kinda screwed..

 

[turbo addict]

^ Now that makes sense. Thanks for helping me with that.

My other option is to send Punishment my stock O2 housing and have them mount the WG on the collector. They said they can do this for me.

But a few guys on Link forums told me this is bad as it will eventually fall off, and to do that it must be on the top of the manifold where there are guides that will have to be drilled through, that will hurt the flow of the manifold, creating slow spool.

I'm kinda screwed..

Glad to help.
Ask if they can add extra bracing. The O2 mount is the way to go. I have a few friends that have the gate mounted on the O2 housing without problems. You will usually have problems with a tubular manifold mounted gate unless you get a really high dollar one, but the O2 mount in my experience is must less likely to break.

 

[MaNGiNa24]

If the SBR manifold was in anyway reliable, I'd consider this a fair comparison.

The Forced performance manifold makes the most sense, and by looking at it, it looks like they used a tubular manifold as the intitial mold and just had a cast design made from that.

As far as it's chances of cracking, that's all dependant on the materials. Theres no saying that this manifold will crack more or less than any other manifold on the market. In theory, it has less material on it than the stock, evo 3 or sbr mani so if the materials "were" the same it'd be more prone to cracking. That's assuming FP is using the same amount of nickel in comparison to SBR's.

 

[Caithness]

FP is using some super-duper strong material and an equally super-duper casting process. If you're interested in the technical terms go read the Vendor Announcements thread; fcd400 something or other and investment casting, or somesuch. The point is it really shouldn't crack.

 

[daren_p]

FP is using some super-duper strong material and an equally super-duper casting process. If you're interested in the technical terms go read the Vendor Announcements thread; fcd400 something or other and investment casting, or somesuch. The point is it really shouldn't crack.

Looks like its cast from D5S Material according to their website. Apparently thats a material that turbine housings are made from which is more resistant to cracking compared to the material that they usually use for exhaust mani's. It's from FP so I'm sure they've done their homework & will have made sure they are putting out a quality product, unlike some other unmentioned vendors

 

[SBR Joe]

Just for the record....our manifold is made to be an upgrade from an evo III, its much larger and flows much better. Were not trying to break any records with it but it flows very well for a 150% bolt on manifold, especially for the price. And with the option of the external gate,the point of it is to bypas exhaust gas from hitting the turbine wheel...so who cares if one runners being robbed it still is doing its job, but unless im loosing my mind, can someone please send me a diagram or mock up of it on the collector...not so "bolt on friendly" with fitment issues now aye?

Joe
Slowboy Racing

 

[Slowboy]

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I think it is safe to say - the SBR manifold with external gate works just fine.

Mike Huml
SBR Inc.

 

[nightspeed87]

Just for the record....our manifold is made to be an upgrade from an evo III, its much larger and flows much better. Were not trying to break any records with it but it flows very well for a 150% bolt on manifold, especially for the price. And with the option of the external gate,the point of it is to bypas exhaust gas from hitting the turbine wheel...so who cares if one runners being robbed it still is doing its job, but unless im loosing my mind, can someone please send me a diagram or mock up of it on the collector...not so "bolt on friendly" with fitment issues now aye?

Joe
Slowboy Racing

Yea but there pretty much saying its cracking on them...

 

[Byrd]

I just ordered the Cast manifold from FP and the Punishment racing o2 housing with external dump.

I have a SBR tubular Manifold with the 38mm wg off the mani. and It's so heavy that it actually works its way forward off the studs creating a rather large exhaust leak. It could also be warped. It's cracked on me once and I've had nothing but problems with it. I'm just sick of it and the fact that everything I've ordered that is labeled SBR has broken, I couldn't use, or was not happy with it..... No refunds, just excuses

I'll post pictures of the piece when I receive it and give opinions.

 

[Jon Lane]

a 150% bolt on manifold​

Meaning?

 

[nightspeed87]

a 150% bolt on manifold​

Meaning?

Exactly... Id rather having something harder to bolt up, but last longer once it is than fit perfect and crack within 2 months... Lucky I bought the gtmanifold over the sbr ( way cheaper by the way ) in which Im not hearing anything bad about except the inital installation on the 1g needing a slight trimming of the power steering bracket since it was intended for a 2g in mind .

Hey but sbr guys dont feel bad, I have your heatshield and mbc...

 

[Slowboy]

I just ordered the Cast manifold from FP and the Punishment racing o2 housing with external dump.

I have a SBR tubular Manifold with the 38mm wg off the mani. and It's so heavy that it actually works its way forward off the studs creating a rather large exhaust leak. It could also be warped. It's cracked on me once and I've had nothing but problems with it. I'm just sick of it and the fact that everything I've ordered that is labeled SBR has broken, I couldn't use, or was not happy with it..... No refunds, just excuses

I'll post pictures of the piece when I receive it and give opinions.

PM sent!

Mike Huml
SBR Inc.

 

[Slowboy]

Yea but there pretty much saying its cracking on them...

The problem with the old ones were in the machining - HOWEVER they would crack within the first 24 hours. This was the batch that was from 2004-2005 - If you were looking at the car from the front - the back right hole where the turbo bolt went through they machined down to .150" wall thickness in the runner - this is where it would start to crack - especially when going crazy with a die drinder.

We have done two things in 2006 - 2007 run.

#1) Use a different machine shop for finish machine work.
#2) Increased wall thickness throughout manifold - it seems some people go really crazy porting them - so not you can.
#3) Changed material for even better performance.

We gave roughly 50 free replacements within the one year warranty period - including some over the year period that we drilled and found to have the machining flaw.

Now - anyone who sends back one of the first 100 pieces that has cracked - gets a brand new one for $175.00 plus shipping - I have about 225 of these left - and HAFE performance of Erie Pa is almost finished with a SS version for us with revised runners, and of course made from SS!

Mike Huml
SBR Inc.

 

[DSMunknown]

Just for the record....our manifold is made to be an upgrade from an evo III, its much larger and flows much better. Were not trying to break any records with it but it flows very well for a 150% bolt on manifold, especially for the price. And with the option of the external gate,the point of it is to bypas exhaust gas from hitting the turbine wheel...so who cares if one runners being robbed it still is doing its job, but unless im loosing my mind, can someone please send me a diagram or mock up of it on the collector...not so "bolt on friendly" with fitment issues now aye?

Joe
Slowboy Racing

Well, I care. This type of argument only increases my own personal determination with having an Evo III EM fabricated such that the ideal (and practical) notions are exemplified.

I think it is safe to say - the SBR manifold with external gate works just fine.

Mike Huml
SBR Inc.

From a theoretical POV, no one is saying an externally mounted 'gate on the first runner will not perform well. The argument is having the mounting spot in the most ideal location (or damn near close to it).

The problem with the old ones were in the machining - HOWEVER they would crack within the first 24 hours. This was the batch that was from 2004-2005 - If you were looking at the car from the front - the back right hole where the turbo bolt went through they machined down to .150" wall thickness in the runner - this is where it would start to crack - especially when going crazy with a die drinder.

We have done two things in 2006 - 2007 run.

#1) Use a different machine shop for finish machine work.
#2) Increased wall thickness throughout manifold - it seems some people go really crazy porting them - so not you can.
#3) Changed material for even better performance.

We gave roughly 50 free replacements within the one year warranty period - including some over the year period that we drilled and found to have the machining flaw.

Now - anyone who sends back one of the first 100 pieces that has cracked - gets a brand new one for $175.00 plus shipping - I have about 225 of these left - and HAFE performance of Erie Pa is almost finished with a SS version for us with revised runners, and of course made from SS!

Mike Huml
SBR Inc.

I would (as others would too) see a relocation of the 'gate flange to the collector. No, I wouldn't want an external 'gate to sit perpendicular to the EM runners. Instead, an extention pipe mounted parallel (or nearly parallel) to the runners is something that SBR could possibly aim for in the future. Of course, the purchase of such an EM with a WG pipe extension would assume longevity and performance.

 

[SBR Joe]

From a theoretical POV, no one is saying an externally mounted 'gate on the first runner will not perform well. The argument is having the mounting spot in the most ideal location (or damn near close to it).



It is "damn near close to it".... But facts are facts...im not trying to argue a point thats to not really be considered, beings the design works and there is proof a few posts up. It works where its at, if you would have more peace of mind running it off the collector then by all means, do it. Ours is just designed for ease of installation and fitment, but it works too. Ill vouch for it because theres a boost graph as proof, and i have teh exact same setiup on my car with a TD05 20g and it holds 24 psi on the dot.

 

[MaNGiNa24]

Now - anyone who sends back one of the first 100 pieces that has cracked - gets a brand new one for $175.00 plus shipping - I have about 225 of these left - and HAFE performance of Erie Pa is almost finished with a SS version for us with revised runners, and of course made from SS!

Mike Huml
SBR Inc.

So you are saying that if you were one of the unfortunate few who purchased your flawed manifold, you have to pay $175 for a new one, even though the manifold was clearly flawed to begin with?