EVOIII Big 16G info needed.

[mcintosh816]

Ok I have searched and can't come up with the info I need. I currently running an AGP RS60 with the following supporting mods: Thermal 3" exhaust, catless DP, EVOIII manifold, TIAL external WG on the o2 housing, PTE 680cc injectors, walbro 255 fuel pump, AGP full race FMIC, 1g ported throttle body, Aeromotive FPR, and DSMLink.

I am looking to step down to an EVOIII Big 16G internally gated with the EVOIII o2 housing in effort to make my car more "fun" as a daily driver plus Im not too fond of the external WG. The 60Trim just doesnt cut it for me. The problem is that Ive found multiple posts that talk about experiencing boost creep with the 16G. How necessary is it to have the 16g and the o2 housing ported to avoid creep? Also, since I have the supporting mods couldnt I run a higher level of boost and avoid creeping all together? I dont know a whole lot about this and the posts I searched through didnt seem to line up with my situation. It seemed like people were talking about creeping only when running low levels of boost on bigger turbos due to lack of supporting mods. Im looking to run the 16g at about 18-20 psi. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[chanley talon]

If you worried about boost creep all you need to do is port the whole underneath the waste gate flapper.

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unported

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ported

 

[mcintosh816]

Its as easy as that? Good deal. So no need to pay an extra $200 to have the turbo and the o2 housing ported? I couldnt find anything that really said what the benefit was of having these ported. Some threads made mention that it helped combat boost creep. The shop I talked to about having them ported simply said it would improve their performance/operation but couldnt give any more info than that which made me skeptical thinking they were just trying to stick me for 200 bucks.

 

[matthewdesigns]

If that's all it took, then there would not be 14 pages of 'boost creep' threads .

Since your current turbo is set up with a bolt-on Mitsu hotside, you can keep all your exhaust components and convert the E316g to work with the external wg. Remove the flapper, weld the small hole closed where the flapper 'arm' enters the housing, then port the heck out of the wg side of the housing so you can flow as much as possible out that open hole. This will allow you to move as much air as possible through the external wg in the o2 housing and away from the turbine wheel, helping to prevent creep. Port the inlet side of the turbine housing at the wg hole as well, to encourage more air to get through there. If you port the entire inlet area, you'll potentially encourage more creep, but more top end flow as well.

Or, you could just say screw it, and run more than 20psi of boost since you have the fuel for it.

 

[Richrx_tsi]

i would definently port the 16g. I would say 90% chance it will creep if you dont.

 

[Dallas J]

I had lots of creep on a EvoIII at first too. I ported the o2 housing and turbine housing a bunch all in an effort to get that port to flow as much as possible. It took a bit of searching and reading, and 3 trials of porting and testing to get it to hold pretty well at 16psi.

If youre new to porting dont rush things, and dont expect itll be perfect the first time.

 

[mcintosh816]

Well thanks for the feedback guys guess Ill go head and go ported from the start to hopefully avoid having to pull anything apart and re-do it again later. I wasnt planning on doing any of the porting myself though. I was likely going to just have it all done by Forced Performance (when I purchase the new turbo etc). Any feedback on the quality of their porting jobs?

 

[matthewdesigns]

They have a great reputation in general, so I'd assume it'll be nice and clean. If you are going to keep your external wg setup, it would be a good idea to talk to them about that before you order the turbo and get their opinion about the hotside porting and modifications.

 

[My1GLaser]

Why only run 18-20 psi when you have DSMLink, fuel mods & a FMIC? Just run 24-25 psi and save the money on porting. Or get it ported and still run 24-25 psi...they are a lot of fun at that boost.

 

[sonik619]

Try this and tell me how it works .

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...r/211040-how-mod-your-internal-wastegate.html

 

[mcintosh816]

Why only run 18-20 psi when you have DSMLink, fuel mods & a FMIC? Just run 24-25 psi and save the money on porting. Or get it ported and still run 24-25 psi...they are a lot of fun at that boost.

Well the reason I intended to keep it around 18-20 psi is that I am installing a rebuilt motor (stock spec) from showdown motorsports. The builder told me I would be safe to run 20psi on it. He said going over 20psi would be iffy. Im trying to set this thing up to be a fun but somewhat reliable daily driver. To be honest I dont know what is or isnt considered safe or reliable on the 4g63 for daily use so Im going purely on research/advice here with this swap/rebuild.

 

[matthewdesigns]

So, did the motor get a rebuild after breaking on the previous setup? If you are worried about a stock rebuild on your 7-bolt, and the builder is not familiar with 4g63's or turbo cars in general, then that may be why he said '18-20psi'...to cover his own butt out of ignorance of one or both. A stock rebuild, done properly, will hold up to a lot more than a 16g@20psi will toss at it, as long as the tune is solid. For break-in on the motor, yeah, keep the pressure lower, like mid teens. If you search this site, you'll find people making lots of power on stock bottom ends, even 7-bolts.
Edit: Just googled them and they say they specialize in DSM's...not sure why they would have told you to keep the boost that low on a 16g unless they meant for break-in, or did they think the old turbo was going back in?

And another thing , psi is not as important as how good your tune is. You can run 15psi on a smaller turbo and a bad tune, knock all over the place, and break things. What's important is getting a good, clean tune on the car, especially on a stock bottom end. Also, psi not really a good indicator of how much power your car is going to make. Airflow is what you need to be focused on, and your tuning will be related to that as well.

 

[chanley talon]

One more thing besides porting below the waste gate flapper is to run a open dump
02 housing . It works very well. Plus it sounds good.

 

[mcintosh816]

So, did the motor get a rebuild after breaking on the previous setup? If you are worried about a stock rebuild on your 7-bolt, and the builder is not familiar with 4g63's or turbo cars in general, then that may be why he said '18-20psi'...to cover his own butt out of ignorance of one or both. A stock rebuild, done properly, will hold up to a lot more than a 16g@20psi will toss at it, as long as the tune is solid. For break-in on the motor, yeah, keep the pressure lower, like mid teens. If you search this site, you'll find people making lots of power on stock bottom ends, even 7-bolts.
Edit: Just googled them and they say they specialize in DSM's...not sure why they would have told you to keep the boost that low on a 16g unless they meant for break-in, or did they think the old turbo was going back in?

And another thing , psi is not as important as how good your tune is. You can run 15psi on a smaller turbo and a bad tune, knock all over the place, and break things. What's important is getting a good, clean tune on the car, especially on a stock bottom end. Also, psi not really a good indicator of how much power your car is going to make. Airflow is what you need to be focused on, and your tuning will be related to that as well.

The motor in the car still runs on the present setup but its over 100k miles and I decided to go ahead and start rebuilding things now rather than wait for something to break on me. I cant stand doing and then re-doing things. A good example is that I rebuilt the entire suspension last fall on this thing (every control arm/shock/spring/hub assy/cv shaft/calipers/rotors/bushing/nut/bolt etc all NEW) last fall, and now Im kicking myself for not just going ahead and doing the Motor/Transmission at the same time..... Now I have to go digging back into the front fender wells pulling stuff back apart to get the cv shafts back out to pull the motor & trans. Anyhow, I guess its possible the builder thought I would be sticking with my 60 trim initially and that may be why he told me to keep the boost down, but I did inform him that I was planning to run the EvoIII Big 16g and he insisted that I would be fine with a stock rebuild and that turbo. Ive heard that a 7 bolt in stock form is good for roughly up to around 400HP max. I dont know how accurate or reliable that is, but my goal is nowhere near that anyhow. I wouldnt want any more than 300-350 hp max out of my DSM for my daily driver.

 

[matthewdesigns]

Shooting for 3-350hp will be safe on a properly rebuilt stock 7-bolt bottom end, and I've read the 400hp figure as a high 'safety' number as well. Just make sure your tune is knock-free and you'll be good to go. If you want to add a little security, use some 1g rods and ARP head studs, and you'll be safe for 500hp+ for not that much more money. Good luck with getting it set up!