tuning needed for big 16g?

[1Gina2G]

As of right now there hasn't been any tuning done to my car at all, and my car is mostly stock and is going to be a daily driver. Right now I have my friends used 14b turbo but I'm going to be looking for a new one pretty soon, but I was wondering about something my friend had mentioned about turbos;

he was saying that most people will agree that a 16g is an ideal daily driver turbo but will require some tuning of the ECU to work, so I can't just bolt it on but if I were to get a small 16g I wouldn't have to do any tuning.

was wondering if this sounds correct? If I need to do tuning anyways, is dsmlink the best place to start? I'm a complete newb on tuning at all but im intrested in learning

 

[Alex7747]

you don't need a tune if you run it at stock boost..and dsmlink would be the best thing for tuning. GL

 

[Sleeper1gfwd]

Agree with above, dsm link is def the way to go, however I have had a car run fine with 15psi big 16g with a maf translator

But def do dsm link if it's in budget

 

[tkelly27]

If you run a b16g at stock boost with a stock tune you will get stock hp numbers with a little later spool. If you tune a b16g properly you can get 400whp out of it. You'll need all the accessories (injectors, pump, exhaust, intercooler, tuning setup), but there is no point to getting a bigger turbo without the other goodies.

I'd save up and get a genuine evo3 turbo from a vendor, or get a used one and have it rebuilt. They are a little bigger than the big 16g and are amazing little turbos.

You already have an eprom ECU, so link will work well for you. The programable ECU's are another option, but if you are asking this question that's probably not the route for you just yet.

You'll go faster with the 14b and tuning than you will with a 16g and everything else stock.

 

[JusMX141]

You won't need a tune following a turbo swap unless you're changing injectors or some other part of the fuel system at the same time. The function of the mass airflow sensor is to tell the ECU that more air is flowing so it can adjust fuel trims accordingly.

However, the range of the stock injectors is only so much; at some point you'll need to upgrade the injectors in order to keep from overrunning your fuel system. At that point you'll need something to tune with.

 

[bryanwheat]

If you run a b16g at stock boost with a stock tune you will get stock hp numbers with a little later spool. If you tune a b16g properly you can get 400whp out of it. You'll need all the accessories (injectors, pump, exhaust, intercooler, tuning setup), but there is no point to getting a bigger turbo without the other goodies.

I'd save up and get a genuine evo3 turbo from a vendor, or get a used one and have it rebuilt. They are a little bigger than the big 16g and are amazing little turbos.

You already have an eprom ECU, so link will work well for you. The programable ECU's are another option, but if you are asking this question that's probably not the route for you just yet.

You'll go faster with the 14b and tuning than you will with a 16g and everything else stock.

Actually a 16g at the same psi as a 14b will make more power Every time, all the time. It's all about volume of air going thru the system, not psi.

 

[JusMX141]

Actually a 16g at the same psi as a 14b will make more power Every time, all the time. It's all about volume of air going thru the system, not psi.

...but at the same time, the Big 16G will not reach full boost until 800-1000rpms later than the 14B. The fact that the 14B lights up quicker will in turn make the car feel more torquey / responsive, and is often the reason that many "I upgraded my turbo and my car got slower" threads are created.

Not saying you're wrong....there's just a spool technicality there.

 

[bryanwheat]

...but at the same time, the Big 16G will not reach full boost until 800-1000rpms later than the 14B. The fact that the 14B lights up quicker will in turn make the car feel more torquey / responsive, and is often the reason that many "I upgraded my turbo and my car got slower" threads are created.

Not saying you're wrong....there's just a spool technicality there.

I am not really talking about how fast the car will be. Just referring to the fact that the engine will make more horsepower at the same pressure that the 14b will.

 

[rockit11]

I would invest in ECMLink before I would upgrade the turbo.

 

[OH91awd]

whats wrong with tuning with an apexi safc and a wideband? i mean this as far as a budget minded way of tuning until ecmlink is in the price range. my talon was on a 20g @ 20psi, evo pinks, 255, fpr, and fmic tuned on a safc and runs strong..

 

[JusMX141]

whats wrong with tuning with an apexi safc and a wideband?

No way to log, no way to change the ECU's timing curve and adjust injector dead time in order to get tuning spot-on. Some have reported the Evo 560's require ridiculous dead time correction to get them dialed in on DSM's.

Don't half-ass anything, especially when it comes to tuning solutions. You'd be better off leaving the stock injectors in the car and waiting until you can afford Link than to get an AFC and a logger.

 

[OH91awd]

No way to log, no way to change the ECU's timing curve and adjust injector dead time in order to get tuning spot-on. Some have reported the Evo 560's require ridiculous dead time correction to get them dialed in on DSM's.

Don't half-ass anything, especially when it comes to tuning solutions. You'd be better off leaving the stock injectors in the car and waiting until you can afford Link than to get an AFC and a logger.

well ive had no problems with the way my car runs with the safc.. dont get me wrong i plan on getting link as soon as i get the money but the safc isnt a horrible way to tune with "basic" mods...

 

[NeEmO6]

No its not a bad way if you dont have big injectors and you have an afpr. Back in the day safc is all we had.

 

[JusMX141]

No its not a bad way if you dont have big injectors and you have an afpr. Back in the day safc is all we had.

Back in the day, the fastest DSM's in the world were running 12's.

An AFC2 still sells for $200 or so- the higher resale value is a result of the fact that the Neo sucks shit. Throw a decent logger package on top of that and you're spending almost $300 on a tuning setup which only dials fuel injectors up to 650cc.

If you're lucky enough to have an EPROM ECU (both of my 1G's came with them), ECMLink Lite is just $425. The extra $125 for complete control of the ECU's fuel and timing maps along with other features like launch control are worth it to me.

 

[96gsxwi]

+1 ^^ dsmlink

 

[1Gina2G]

So what are the benefits of the EPROM ECU and how do you tell if thats what you have? I'd still like to learn how to tune but not sure if I'll need to or not. My goal is a reliable daily driver...heard 16gs were best for this and for having more boost because the 14b can in some situations restrict the exhaust flow...

whitch is why I also asked about the small 16....tuning? how much different then a 14b from a 1g?

 

[Talondvr]

So what are the benefits of the EPROM ECU and how do you tell if thats what you have?

epromid [ECMTuning - wiki]

 

[DSMDirkah]

My main concern with SAFC is the grab bag timing. Increasing your timing with added air volume can cause destruction. It might not happen right away, but there is no substitute for a correctly tuned car. Link is a viable option but if money is an issue you can get away with a tunerpro ostrich or tunerpro burn2 option. So at the bare minimum of going with a chip burner, you are out $85 for the burner (which works for many different vehicles), a chip $5, and a mountain of time to understand how to use it all. This is much cheaper than a SAFC and not only a correct way to tune the car, but you get much more added control over many other things inside the ecu. Good luck!

 

[OH91awd]

im not saying a safc is the best way of tuning.. id rather have link as well.. but a safc is better then no tune at all... and i have two EPROM ecus as well.. idk whats in the car either cause i havent checked...

 

[1Gina2G]

Can somebody tell me about their opinion about the small 16g?

 

[lancedsm]

The big 16g pretty close to the same turbo as small 16g the compressor side inlet size is a little smaller as far as being better there pretty close to the same stats the big 16g flows a little higher cfm at higher rpm but some people say the small 16g spools faster .but where talking at like 20 to 25 psi in the cfm different with the small and big 16.

 

[JusMX141]

Can somebody tell me about their opinion about the small 16g?

Great turbo for a daily driver. Spool and boost recovery is almost the same as a 14B but maintains airflow much better, especially at higher boost levels. A 14B was never designed for boost above 15-18psi where the Small 16G can juice 20-23psi under load and maintain above 20psi to redline depending on cams and turbine housing selection. Very versatile, very durable turbo.

 

[lancedsm]

Nicely put JusMX141!

 

[1Gina2G]

Great turbo for a daily driver. Spool and boost recovery is almost the same as a 14B but maintains airflow much better, especially at higher boost levels. A 14B was never designed for boost above 15-18psi where the Small 16G can juice 20-23psi under load and maintain above 20psi to redline depending on cams and turbine housing selection. Very versatile, very durable turbo.

Would a small 16g workout better for a daily driver for me since I have an evo 3 manifold and 02 housing and a full 3" exhaust, front to back?

Like I was saying I read the 14b turbo at some point restricts exhaust flow.

Main disadvantages of only bolting on the small 16g without any tuning?

 

[JusMX141]

Would a small 16g workout better for a daily driver for me since I have an evo 3 manifold and 02 housing and a full 3" exhaust, front to back?

Work better than what, a tired 14B? That's sort-of a dumb question, isn't it?

Main disadvantages of only bolting on the small 16g without any tuning?

Again, turbo size has no direct effect on tuning unless you're overdrawing the mass airflow sensor or running out of fuel. Otherwise the MAS should read airflow accurately and the ECU will adjust fuel and timing accordingly until you run out of available fuel due to undersized injectors and pump. Once you're out of fuel you need to step to larger injectors, and THEN you'll need to worry about a tuning method to dial in the larger injectors.

I suppose the main disadvantage would be the inability to run over 15psi or so until you upgrade the fuel system.