Evo / Eclipse delema

[99Mitsu]

I want to get a 4G63 engine out of an Evo III. The only problemn is that my car is and auto and the Evo didn't come with an auto trans until the Evo VI. Can I buy the 4g63 out of an Evo III (engine only) and have it hook up to my auto tranny, or do i need to convert over to manual to have the engine work?

 

[99Mitsu]

Buy the 16G from extremePSI or FP. It's not ebay, they're genuine MHI turbos that countless members are running.

And do a search on eBay intercoolers. Lots of people are running them with success.

Much cheaper then the $1500 your store quoted.

The turbo kit isnt much better at $1100 and another $800 for an FMIC
punishment racing for the lose

 

[TomcTSI]

The turbo kit isnt much better at $1100 and another $800 for an FMIC
punishment racing for the lose

wtf are you talking about ? you need to spend more time looking up parts for your car rather than letting some salesperson talk you into spending $$ for some brand name.

Mitsubishi EVO III Big 16g Turbo - $569
Forced Performance Turbochargers: Mitsubishi EVO III Big 16g Turbo

Talon/Eclipse 2g short route fmic kit- $359
Talon/Eclipse 2g short route fmic kit

 

[dsm-onster]

99Mitsu, shop around and research. You'll be happy I can convert an n/t to turbo for a quite a bit less.

His car is a 99, didn't they have a revised split thrust bearing? If so aren't those less likely to crankwalk as the 6 bolt motor

I believe so. . .

timm98gst, yes I didn't even discuss the fuel pump because the final fuel flow is nothing more than 480cc or less. The stock fuel pump peaks out conveniently at about the same demand as the fuel injectors at stock fuel pressure. Raising the fuel pressure or running larger injectors yields no more potential because the fuel pump is spent at this level.

You definately need an safc to get more. You can run a 2g fuel pressure regulator (43psi) or 1g n/t regulator (47psi) and have nuch more fuel at your disposal. With an safc to tune it, then you have an actual potential to use it

 

[Anger890]

His car is a 99, didn't they have a revised split thrust bearing? If so aren't those less likely to crankwalk as the 6 bolt motor

Yes, the 97 and later engines had the revised split thrust bearing. Not that he should worry about it.

well i've heard DSMs are notorious for crankwalk...i was going to build my 6 bolt (when i get it) as my proformance engine and leave my 7 bolt in until i'm done building the 6 bolt...do 6 bolt have same motor mount setup as 7 bolt?

The early 7-bolt engines had issues, mainly stemming from the design of the oil squirter and the use of heavy clutches. (2600, 2900 etc.) The two combined caused a lot of the issues with crankwalk. I say he probably doesn't have to worry about the 7-bolt crank wlaking as he has an AUTO. No load on the thrust bearing from a heavy pressure plate. The likelyhood of walking an auto is pretty slim from my expierence.

 

[99Mitsu]

99Mitsu, shop around and research. You'll be happy I can convert an n/t to turbo for a quite a bit less.


dsm-onster I was browing around, the extemepsi racing was just one of the places i was comparing prices with

PS...sorry i meant to say extremepsi earlier

 

[timm98gst]

timm98gst, yes I didn't even discuss the fuel pump because the final fuel flow is nothing more than 480cc or less. The stock fuel pump peaks out conveniently at about the same demand as the fuel injectors at stock fuel pressure. Raising the fuel pressure or running larger injectors yields no more potential because the fuel pump is spent at this level.

You definately need an safc to get more. You can run a 2g fuel pressure regulator (43psi) or 1g n/t regulator (47psi) and have nuch more fuel at your disposal. With an safc to tune it, then you have an actual potential to use it

good advice - thanks! fuel pump and safc are going on my shopping list

 

[dsm-onster]

Yes, the 97 and later engines had the revised split thrust bearing. Not that he should worry about it.



The early 7-bolt engines had issues, mainly stemming from the design of the oil squirter and the use of heavy clutches. (2600, 2900 etc.) The two combined caused a lot of the issues with crankwalk. I say he probably doesn't have to worry about the 7-bolt crank wlaking as he has an AUTO. No load on the thrust bearing from a heavy pressure plate. The likelyhood of walking an auto is pretty slim from my expierence.

I'm not sure about that, nor has there been any 'officially settled on' cause. N/T blocks with no oil squirters have been used and have crank walked. There have been instances of motors with automatics crankwalking too. . .

 

[_Adrian_]

My advice to you is research research and research some more.
Look at many vendors as possible and shop around!
Also remeber...
The first priority on your list should be routine maintenance.
Mod after that, and your first mods should always be supporting mods!
Fueling is a good place to start as the factory system is quite bottle necked by the factory FPR and going to a larger pump will just create havoc as the factory unit is very restrictive and the factory pump is almost working at full potential.
If your upgrading your turbo larger fuel injectors can be added to the list as well along with a S-AFC to adjust for them.
Another overlooked item is the factory Blow-off valve starts leaking a little past 10Psi. If you get a FMIC and a good blow-off valve then onto some gauges ( Boost and Wideband ) to keep an eye on things.
After all that you can add a boost controller either an electronic one or a simple mechanical one.

Just remember...
What you cheap out on today might bite you in the ass tomorrow!!!
Its a well know fact to everyone on these forums.

Ebay if a good source for exhaust and cheap parts that DO NOT have any vital function.
Deal with a reputable vendor first !

 

[soldave]

Stock evo1-3 fuel pressure is 38psi. . . I believe.

Think stock fuel pressure is 42psi on the Evo I-III, with the top hose of the FPR blocked off.

 

[dsm-onster]

DAvid Buscher said different on the evom website. . . That's where I got that from. I could be wrong. . . So could he. But that's where I got that from. . . Do you have any verification? Not that I doubt you. But it would help with thte thread. . .

 

[soldave]

This was the first mention of it I found on a quick search:

fuel pressure reg setting's - Mitsubishi Lancer Register Forum

It is mentioned quite a bit on MLR, and all the recommendations seem to be about 42-45psi. Hope that helps a little

 

[dsm-onster]

Hmm. . . Here's what David Buschur said: Click.

 

[soldave]

Interesting. You know, it could be that a lot of US tuners mean "Evo VII-IX" when they say "Evo" and forget completely about the earlier generations of Evos. My knowledge is mainly on the earlies and I know everyone says they should be set to 42psi.

 

[dsm-onster]

Very true. I'm looking and see that all the evo1-3 stock base FP references say 43psi. . .

 

[soldave]

I don't know... maybe something to do with the late Evo fuel pumps compared to the early ones (I know an Evo VIII fuel pump can be an upgrade to people with an early Evo).

 

[99Mitsu]

The first priority on your list should be routine maintenance.

Fueling is a good place to start as the factory system is quite bottle necked by the factory
Ebay if a good source for exhaust and cheap parts that DO NOT have any vital function.
Deal with a reputable vendor first !

ok, Adrian, my maintenance is done. I have all new belts and I just converted to Mobile 1 5w-30 synthetic and new plugs.

what part of the fuel system should be a good place to start "modding"?

and lastly what is wideband?

thank you

 

[nyTalonTsi]

ok, Adrian, my maintenance is done. I have all new belts and I just converted to Mobile 1 5w-30 synthetic and new plugs.

what part of the fuel system should be a good place to start "modding"?

and lastly what is wideband?

thank you

You should pick up a walbro 190 fuel pump, get a rewire kit for it, get some 650cc injectors since thats the biggest you could go safely with using the safc.

A wideband monitors air/fuel. Its also recommended for tuning, much better then a narrowband, especially if you use the 2nd o2 spot not near the turbo for accuracy.

 

[the_mork]

There isn't anything particularly wrong with nyTalonTsi's advice but I would suggest actually that you don't upgrade the fuel system until you've decided on your engine management.

You have a number of options and you should start reading to decide which is best. Cheapest would be an SAFC but more and more these are falling out of favor because of their limited capabilities. There is flourishing work on flashing the 98/99 ecus which would be the perfect option for you BUT it hasn't reached maturity yet and at this point isn't at all useful except for developers. An evo8 ecu is an easy swap and extremely well supported and it is one of the most complete tuning solutions available. DSMlink is considered the pinnacle of easy and complete tuning options but it also comes with a high price tag and you have to swap to a 95 ecu.

All of those options will let you run any injectors that you want except the SAFC and they will also all let you control timing except the SAFC. When you do get injectors I would suggest 850cc or larger because they will support anything you want to run on gasoline and for the most part any 16g setup on e85.

 

[99Mitsu]

There isn't anything particularly wrong with nyTalonTsi's advice but I would suggest actually that you don't upgrade the fuel system until you've decided on your engine management.

You have a number of options and you should start reading to decide which is best. Cheapest would be an SAFC but more and more these are falling out of favor because of their limited capabilities. There is flourishing work on flashing the 98/99 ecus which would be the perfect option for you BUT it hasn't reached maturity yet and at this point isn't at all useful except for developers. An evo8 ecu is an easy swap and extremely well supported and it is one of the most complete tuning solutions available. DSMlink is considered the pinnacle of easy and complete tuning options but it also comes with a high price tag and you have to swap to a 95 ecu.

All of those options will let you run any injectors that you want except the SAFC and they will also all let you control timing except the SAFC. When you do get injectors I would suggest 850cc or larger because they will support anything you want to run on gasoline and for the most part any 16g setup on e85.

ok, so definatly get the SAFC (thought it was SAFC II). I dont have alot of money (about $600) so should I still get the 850cc injectors if I don't have the 16g or ECU to back it up with. I don't want to unbalance my tuning until i can get propper tuning equipment. I will look into the Evo 8 ECU but I'm going to have to see if I can do it myself or do I need a professional.

I'm not entirly sure where do begin with engine management besides with SAFC and ECU. I can't seem to find a cheap plug n play tuner (cheapest is an AEM going for $2000)

thank you all
mitsu

 

[the_mork]

You have a lot of reading to do buddy.

AEM is absolutely not necessary until you've reached a very high level of performance. There are people doing 9s (maybe 8s) on dsmlink. For dsmlink you would need an 1995 eprom ecu which would cost about $200 and the actual software and chip which is $500-$600 IIRC. It isn't cheap but way less than AEM. The evo8 ecu is capable of almost as much and costs about $250 with a cable and software so it is a much smaller price tag but it a bit harder to learn, the install and the tuning are very doable by someone who is willing to do some reading though. A keydiver chip will cost ~$300 and you also need the $200 1995 eprom ecu.

If you have $600 then you need to save up some more. If you buy a used 16g and used 16g install parts and go with the evo8 setup and find a screaming deal on some injectors then you might be able to get your car set up to be an evil street machine for that price but expect to pay more. You might even consider staging your goals a little bit more. A 14b is a potent turbo that is externally identical to a 16g turbo and can be had for much less. Changing a turbo once you've done it once or twice is not hard and can be done in a couple of hours so the 14b might get you to your goals for now and then you can upgrade once you've got your feet under you.

 

[99Mitsu]

You have a lot of reading to do buddy.

AEM is absolutely not necessary until you've reached a very high level of performance. There are people doing 9s (maybe 8s) on dsmlink. For dsmlink you would need an 1995 eprom ecu which would cost about $200 and the actual software and chip which is $500-$600 IIRC. It isn't cheap but way less than AEM. The evo8 ecu is capable of almost as much and costs about $250 with a cable and software so it is a much smaller price tag but it a bit harder to learn, the install and the tuning are very doable by someone who is willing to do some reading though. A keydiver chip will cost ~$300 and you also need the $200 1995 eprom ecu.

Where do I find an ECU chip from a 95-96, or an Evo 8 for that matter. I am willing to buy an ECU form a 95 but my local speed shop does not have stuff like chips, but they said they will hook me up IF i can get the chip...

 

[whe3ls]

Where do I find an ECU chip from a 95-96, or an Evo 8 for that matter. I am willing to buy an ECU form a 95 but my local speed shop does not have stuff like chips, but they said they will hook me up IF i can get the chip...

its called google.

here is a link to where you can buy dsmlink. you really need to do alot of research before you start modding, or things can get ugly, spend way to much money ect... and if you are wanting a turbo and fmic. get a evo III 16g ~600 and a vr-speed or ss auto chrome kit for 250-350. youll same have to get a 2g install kit, for oil lines and a j pipe

 

[the_mork]

http://www.dsmchips.com/ This is where you get a modified chip. You will have to find a 95 eprom ecu to use it though. Use the search box and type eprom ecu to find what you need.

An evo8 ecu you'll need to find from an evo8 owner selling one. I would suggest ebay or evolutionm.net there are no chips for the evo8 ecu because it is flashable, it hooks up to your laptop with the right software and you can make changes. Read more about it at Coming Soon... and www.limitless.co.nz

 

[da1sexmonk83]

Actually I would suggest going to the ECU+ forum there is a guy selling his ECU+ plug and play used for $400 he would probably take a little less than that. It is coming out with boost control here soon and is a great tuner and logger. It has even got the capability to eliminate the PO300 code for 6bolt swaps AND you don't have to do all the crazy wiring tricks for the CAS because the ecu+ converts the signal for you. Here are a quick list of other features:


#

Dual fuel and timing maps with on-the-fly map switching. (Unlimited sets of maps can be saved/restored to a laptop.) +/-50% adjustment on the fuel maps and +/-15 degrees on the timing maps.
#

Fuel and timing are adjusted via 129-point fuel and timing maps (250 RPM resolution from 1000 to 8000 RPM at four different loads, plus idle). RPMs in-between the discrete points are interpolated internally.
#

Integrated injector scaling to support oversized injectors.
#

Supports vehicles with wrong-year cam sensors - most useful for 1995-1996 DSMs with a 1997+ cam sensor swap, or a 2nd generation DSM with a 1st generation (6 bolt) motor - eliminates the check-engine light on those setups.
#

Simulated front and rear O2 sensor generation.
#

Configurable fuel-cut defencer.
#

Integrated MAS tweaking capability, similar to the HKS EIDS, to improve idle with large injectors and cams.
#

Configurable low/medium/high load thresholds.
#

Works directly with the GM 3" and 3.5" MAFs to replace the stock DSM/EVO MAS air meter.
#

Fast native datalogging that logs at 25 samples per second.
#

Integrated stock ECU datalogging to log things like fuel trims and knock sum.
#

Multiple uncommitted I/Os for future expansion and datalogging of analog signals.
#

Wideband, boost, EGT and knock logging.
#

Knock back-off function to protect your engine from excessive knock.
#

Optional plug-n-play capability for the 1995+ DSMs and the EVO VIII/IX - installs in minutes!
#

Street dyno capability in the Windows software - treats a WOT run as a dyno pull and plot HP and torque.
#

Can "overlay" multiple runs and compare between them on the street dyno or the time plots - immediately see if your tuning resulted in increased HP or if your engine was knocking in a given range.
#

Drag capability - treats a 1/4 mile of driving as though it were done on a drag strip - shows 60', 1/8 mile and 1/4 mile speeds and ET
#

Integrated full-featured OBD-II code scanner/reader (1995+ DSMs and the EVO VIII/IX). Includes real-time display of engine parameters for OBD-II cars and for the 1G DSMs.
#

Launch control and no-lift shifting.
#

EVO ROM editing and map tracing that uses EcuFlash-compatible XML ROM definitions.
#

Advanced architecture - the ECU+ includes a dedicated high-speed digital signal processor (2x faster than the original ECU+) along with two co-processors for knock and other functions.
#

Free software upgrades for the Windows software as well as the firmware inside the ECU+ head unit - software and firmware releases are usually every 6-9 months to add new features, and most updates are available as betas for those who like to be on the bleeding edge.

 

[99Mitsu]

its called google.

here is a link to where you can buy dsmlink. you really need to do alot of research before you start modding, or things can get ugly, spend way to much money ect... and if you are wanting a turbo and fmic. get a evo III 16g ~600 and a vr-speed or ss auto chrome kit for 250-350. youll same have to get a 2g install kit, for oil lines and a j pipe

when you say "get a evo III 16g ~600" is that JUST the turbo?