ECMlink Evo 8 timing maps on 1g

[evil_eagletalon]

Whats up tuners. Are the evo 8 timing maps from factory “blow up” proof for a beginnerish tuner? I have a timing map that was ran on my big 16g turbo setup. Turbo was upgraded to a borg s257-sxe. So rather start from scratch. Thanks

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

The mildest timing maps are the 2g maps. My tuners have always started with a 2g and then tweaked it from there. Just what I have experienced and also what I start with on a new build.

 

[evil_eagletalon]

The mildest timing maps are the 2g maps. My tuners have always started with a 2g and then tweaked it from there. Just what I have experienced and also what I start with on a new build.

Thanks marty ill go ahead and give that a try. I just want to be safe.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Where can I see the EVO8 timing map in ECMLink format? I'm curious how it compares to what I'm running now.

 

[evil_eagletalon]

Where can I see the EVO8 timing map in ECMLink format? I'm curious how it compares to what I'm running now.

It can be downloaded through ecmlink/ecmtuning.

Google ecmlink evo 8 base map.

evo8v3settings [ECMTuning - wiki]

www.ecmtuning.com

 

[Justin DuBois]

Oh yeah - In the idle cells, the EVO8 timing is much less aggressive - I bet this helps with idle hunting issues. There is -10 safe timing in the high boost low RPM areas of the map, and a ramping down of timing in the high RPM area with more boost as well. It is interesting. It might be interesting to see what the knock sensor says - but unless I'm missing something - I actually think the EVO8 map is safer than 2G when you get into high boost.

 

[evil_eagletalon]

Im no tuner but i understand the concept of things. Whats the max timing by redline? In my evo 8 i ran 19*

 

[CrackedDSM]

100% prefer to start with the evo 8 maps. They work phenomenal with a 16G with little to no tweaking.

Although I will typically add a few degrees starting in the upper middle through to the rev limiter. That and straighten a few areas on the AFR side. But even if you change nothing it’s nice and safe, but fun.

The torque hit is also really fun.

 

[evil_eagletalon]

100% prefer to start with the evo 8 maps. They work phenomenal with a 16G with little to no tweaking.

Although I will typically add a few degrees starting in the upper middle through to the rev limiter. That and straighten a few areas on the AFR side. But even if you change nothing it’s nice and safe, but fun.

The torque hit is also really fun.

I am not sure what timing map i currently run i was street tuned a few years back but no longer have the 16g. Maybe ill post up my timing map see what you guys think.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Im no tuner but i understand the concept of things. Whats the max timing by redline? In my evo 8 i ran 19*

Here is the Stock EVO8 timing table - your 19* at red-line must have been between 1.8 and 2.0 bar rows - (that's 0.9 bar boost) 13.05.psi

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Compared to what I'm running now in my 2G, that's going in the direction of "safe". Note how the EVO table ends up dropping the timing to 9* when you get to the 2.6 bar row (23.21psi) - The table below does not pull back

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I'm reaching 20psi (1.4bar boost) 2.4 bar row at red-line today with my Big16G, so I'm hitting 16-17 deg, but I don't have it set to pull timing with more boost.

 

[evil_eagletalon]

I was running a stainless steel fp red @30 pounds

 

[Justin DuBois]

I was running a stainless steel fp red @30 pounds

At 30psi - Boost (2.1 bar) which is the 3.1 bar row, you were only hitting 9 deg with a stock timing table.

To answer your question tho - Assuming you are running pump gas (91oct) you can target 10.1-10.5 AFR at WOT as a safe playground, and the EVO8 timing maps look safe to start. You should be able to use the knock sensor as a sanity check. If you are running more CR than 8.5:1, then maybe not.

I personally think E25 is another way to play safe. (4 part 91 pump + 1 part E85). This ups the Oct from 91 to 94, and it behaves a lot like E85 - more margin for error. I'm running AFR target of 11.0 with E25

 

[evil_eagletalon]

At 30psi - Boost (2.1 bar) which is the 3.1 bar row, you were only hitting 9 deg with a stock timing table.

Sir this was on my evo 8 on e85. Not my dsm.

To answer your question tho - Assuming you are running pump gas (91oct) you can target 10.1-10.5 AFR at WOT as a safe playground, and the EVO8 timing maps look safe to start. You should be able to use the knock sensor as a sanity check. If you are running more CR than 8.5:1, then maybe not.

I personally think E25 is another way to play safe. (4 part 91 pump + 1 part E85). This ups the Oct from 91 to 94, and it behaves a lot like E85 - more margin for error. I'm running AFR target of 11.0 with E25

I am on full e85 pump gas. So going to shoot for 12.8 afr during spool and 11.5 in boost to redline.

 

[CrackedDSM]

I am on full e85 pump gas. So going to shoot for 12.8 afr during spool and 11.5 in boost to redline.

If you’re on full E85 go mid-low 13’s during spool up gradually stepping down to low 12’s for full boost. I run 12.8 spool up and 11.5 redline on pump gas setups.


What turbo are you gonna be on now?

 

[Justin DuBois]

Sir this was on my evo 8 on e85. Not my dsm.

Were you running the stock timing tables on e-85 with your EVO? If so, then my statement stands. 9deg at 30psi at 7500rpm -

Sorry I refer to "pump" gas as gasoline (85, 87, and 91oct(E10) in California). I don't call E-85 pump gas, even though it obviously comes from a pump.

Just for fun I took a look at the 1G timing tables:

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Amazing what 7.8:1 compression tables look like - thats agressive for 8.5:1 or more for sure.

 

[evil_eagletalon]

If you’re on full E85 go mid-low 13’s during spool up gradually stepping down to low 12’s for full boost. I run 12.8 spool up and 11.5 redline on pump gas setups.


What turbo are you gonna be on now?

Ok sounds good i an running a borg warner s257-sxe with a agp exhaust housing dont know what size it is. It is a billet wheel turbo. It is supposed to flow 65 lb/min. So smaller then a black and bigger then a red. Its a auto car so it will be fast no matter what. Im not trying to set records just have fun and blow the doors off of most cars on the road.

Were you running the stock timing tables on e-85 with your EVO? If so, then my statement stands. 9deg at 30psi at 7500rpm -

Sorry I refer to "pump" gas as gasoline (85, 87, and 91oct(E10) in California). I don't call E-85 pump gas, even though it obviously comes from a pump.

Not to sure to be honest but i recall it being 19* at redline. Not 9. Sold the car when i bought my house UNFORTUNATELY

 

[CrackedDSM]

Ok sounds good i an running a borg warner s257-sxe with a agp exhaust housing dont know what size it is. It is a billet wheel turbo. It is supposed to flow 65 lb/min. So smaller then a black and bigger then a red. Its a auto car so it will be fast no matter what. Im not trying to set records just have fun and blow the doors off of most cars on the road.

Auto cars are a different animal regarding spool up numbers. I actually take it back in that case. Run high 12's dropping to low 12's/high 11's. The automatic loads up the car different than a manual does. Plus depending on converter you may not even be in that range for very long. And for brake boosting/launching, the richer the better. It doesn't make sense, but the leaner you go the more it'll struggle to get up on the converter. Unless you're using nitrous to stall the car. Too many variables. Plus the more torque you can pull back the more you'll be able to keep it from ripping through the brakes.


Has it always been auto? The S257 is a beast, man. Depending on housing it can spool quick AF.

 

[evil_eagletalon]

Auto cars are a different animal regarding spool up numbers. I actually take it back in that case. Run high 12's dropping to low 12's/high 11's. The automatic loads up the car different than a manual does. Plus depending on converter you may not even be in that range for very long. And for brake boosting/launching, the richer the better. It doesn't make sense, but the leaner you go the more it'll struggle to get up on the converter. Unless you're using nitrous to stall the car. Too many variables. Plus the more torque you can pull back the more you'll be able to keep it from ripping through the brakes.


Has it always been auto? The S257 is a beast, man. Depending on housing it can spool quick AF.

Yea i have driven it around and part throttle pulls im seeing high 12’s and that turbo lights fast and stays lit in between shifts.

Long story short the car was a manual on a big16g. Swapped it to auto and borg like 3 years ago. Started it and didnt have reverse so yea it just sat. But now shes back. Fixed all the trans issues and made a downpipe, new pump, cleaned injectors etc etc.

Here is my timing map, fuel map, sd map

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[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I am sure glad you guys can run that much timing. I was getting knock at more than 6* on pump 91 here in KS so I reduced the map to keep it out of knock and it ran OK, but on E, I could run 17* and some other little tweaks and it was a totally different beast. With my tuners eyes, 18* wasn't doing anything more so we backed down a degree.
Continue on guys. Happy for your results!
Marty

 

[Justin DuBois]

I am sure glad you guys can run that much timing. I was getting knock at more than 6* on pump 91 here in KS so I reduced the map to keep it out of knock and it ran OK, but on E, I could run 17* and some other little tweaks and it was a totally different beast. With my tuners eyes, 18* wasn't doing anything more so we backed down a degree.
Continue on guys. Happy for your results!
Marty

Hey Marty

On 91, I was getting lots of knock. It was a combination of too much boost, and a GM3bar MAP sensor with a weird bias at 5k and valve noise in the readings at 6-7k.

Working with what I had, I refused to reduce the stock timing in favor of boost. It didn’t make more power with more boost, it just sorta got hotter without any more oomph.

The initial solution to the knock issue was Ethanol - As I increased the amount of Ethanol, the knock would go away, the timing and power came back up, and then I ran out of injector pulse width.

Later, once the MAP sensor was replaced, everything started working better, more consistent.

The consistency enabled me to finally achieve a calibrated SD table, and move my AFR targets higher to 11’s - Ethanol mix performed better leaner.

E25 94oct is enough octane to manage knock up to 24psi and enough gasoline to lubricate the supra pump I was running util I did finally upgrade to an E85 compatible pump.

Finally with a calibrated SD table, I started poking at the timing table to see if I could get above 9’s in the HPbyAir ratings. When the knock sensor started talking again, I pulled back on the max timing. I could not get over 17deg at redline, but more important than redline, getting more timing lower in the RPM band makes more power, quicker to redline.

 

[evil_eagletalon]

any input on my maps safety?

 

[Justin DuBois]

any input on my maps safety?

I like what you got going there - it looks similar to the evo8 stock table, and it goes safe at higher boost levels. I don’t know if a knock sensor works like normal for E85. I think it might go blind, and you could focus on HPbyAir - looking for 10’s i suspect too much or too little timing on E85 will show as low HPbyAir

 

[evil_eagletalon]

Thanks

 

[Justin DuBois]

I looked at the EVO8 timing table in more detail - and it is more aggressive in the middle compared to 2G where you want more timing. You also increased the timing at idle, and a couple different locations. It will be interesting for you to try a long 3rd gear pull and see what is the what. I am seriously tempted to throw in the stock EVO table and give it a go.

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[evil_eagletalon]

Give it a go car runs great. Havent done a full pull yet tho.