Engine Break In, breaking-in, motor break-in [Merged 10-6]

[BrokeTurbo]

As the following thread will illustrate, motor break-in is not the issue it was in the fifties and sixties.
For all intents and purposes, your method will not significantly matter, within reason.

Well, I am getting the laser back from the shop this weekend. Here's a List of whats new, and whats not.New Pistons, Bearings, Rods, Crankshaft, Rings, Oil pump, Belts, Pullys, Head, Valves, No balancer belt. The only real thing thats old, but freshened up is the block, and valve cover, and the FI system. (Fuel Injection)

I am going to run Mobil 1 10w-30 with a Puroilator PL101xx Filter. I have a new clutch with a resurfaced flywheel going on. I've also got new fluids in the transmission.

My question is how should I break it in? This is my first non 70's Chevy, and I was wondering if there are any tricks to it.

The way I was going to do it, was 15 min of idle, warm up. Make sure all fluids/hoses/electrical is plugged in. Then about 1 hour of normal driving. Might take out to the Highway, and cruise around 65-70 for a little bit.

This sound good? I was not going to get on it, or push it till ive got about 500 miles on the engine. Even then, I'll still be taking it easy. Anyone have any tips or help? Thanks

 

[Turbo 2g awd]

Thanks guys I'll go with the 10w30.

 

[swordfish]

If you are goin to use 10W-30 then make sure there it has NO detergent. Personally, I suggest straight 30 weight for first start and first 100 miles. I mean the shittiest 30 weight you can find. The worse, the better. Just do go out and beat the piss out of the car on 30 weight. Then to regular 10w-30. If you want to switch to synthetic, then wait until about 3500 miles.

jeff

 

[NDgsx]

No zinc either.
Why you go so long before switching Jeff? The rings/cylinder walls should be seated well before 3.5k. Personally I always switch at 750 miles.

 

[swordfish]

I dont know really. I guess its from back when I was building hondas I kinda pulled that number out of my ass one day and have always stuck to it. Maybe its a good luck number.

jeff

 

[NDgsx]

Sure always blame it on the hondas

 

[awd4g63]

I know this has been discussed before, but I can't seem to find any threads that tackle the overall engine rebuild subject.

First off, here's my situation: My tranny went out, so I decided to rebuild the entire engine with some serious parts. I'm sending the tranny off to Shepracing, so that's done.

Now, what I'm having trouble with is the engine rebuild. I'm taking the block to a machine shop next week to get it inspected, honed, decked & anything else that needs to be done. I'm also taking the head with me and getting that decked, a 3-angle valve job, & new seats. I'm planning on running upgraded valves, springs & retainers for the head; and new pistons, rods, bearings, etc. on the bottom end. Big turbo, big intercooler, all supporting mods, etc...

Is there any general or technical advice anyone can give me? I don't drive the car that much (10 miles/day max.), and I'd like to be able to drive it across state, run low 12s/high 11s and drive it home.

Any advice on bearing clearances, break-in periods, honing, decking, boring, pre-lubing, general assembly, etc., etc.? Any advice is greatly appreciated; I'm planning on putting a lot of hard earned money into it and I'd hate to see it all go to hell. I really want to make sure I do this right.

'Tuner's Wisemen, feel free to chime in

 

[1fast97gsx]

well for the bearings have the crank inspected. Generally if you don't machine the crank just buy standard sized bearings. New pistons will generally come with rings and pins, and well... rods are rods. Then just buy a set of standard rod bearings, a new oil pump, water pump, and alternator if you really want to redo everything. Get some arp studs and all the head stuff you were talking about. Then buy an engine gasket set and put it all back together. The machine shop will be able to tell you if you need to bore the block or if honing will do. The can also make sure everything is balanced. I would recommend having the block decked and the head as well if you are going with a metal headgasket. Of course replace the timing belt and the auto tensioner. I also got rid of the balance shafts, so no need for a balance shaft belt. MAKE SURE THE TIMING IS RIGHT. I used assembly lube on all my bearings and on the cams just because it's easy to work with and if you don't want to start the car for a while you have nothing to worry about. Just take your time when you put it all back together and triple check everything.

Break in - I've heard different opinions. Some people say drive it slow and don't boost. Some say drive it normal ... some say drive it hard. I like the drive it hard idea best. This way your rings will seal quickly and you will immediatly know if there are any problems with the car. Obviously don't powershift or redline it ... just ease on and off the throttle and ride out the gears a little. I say at around 400 - 500 miles change the oil and don't "race" it for another 500 ish. Change the oil again at the 1000 mark and switch to synthetic. The car is now ready for anything you throw at it.

 

[awd4g63]

Thanks for the response

I've also heard that after you install new rings, etc., that it's best not to use an upgraded turbo right off the bat. I read about it; something about the rings sealing and tiny metal chips tearing up the new turbo. I guess I can bolt my 14b on for the time being, then bolt the new turbo on. I'm ordering the PTE kit that RNRRacing.com is offering right now. 57 trim, t3/t04e, wastegate, manifold, o2 housing, etc.

I'm having the crank inspected also. It looks good to me (I've worked on cars for a few years, so I have an idea), but I'm having it checked out anyway.

Will I need to have the engine balanced after I get everything back together (crank, pistons, & rods)?

 

[1fast97gsx]

I would not neccesarily use a super expensive brand new turbo for the break in ... I am using a used big 16g.

 

[awd4g63]

Any tips on plastigage (sp?)?

 

[Rick@AP]

Some of the information given is not correct (even though I sware I gave this same information to a poster on this thread ).

If you do not have a Service Manual that would be your first and best initial investment. All the spec numbers, proper assembly procedures, etc. (with a few exceptions) can be found in the manual. It will also answer 95% of your questions.

Generally if you don't machine the crank just buy standard sized bearings.

If you are reusing the crank (have it inspected for journal wear before making this decision), look at the bottom side of the block where the oil pan bolts up, near the front cover. There are several roman numerals stamped in the block in two rows. The numbers correspond to the proper rod and crank bearings that should be used when replacing the crank. A dealership should be able to match up those roman numerals to the proper crank bearings. Sometimes you will get idiots at the parts desk, that will tell you that he has no such information. My suggestion is to walk away and find another dealership to order bearings from. See this thread: click here

New pistons will generally come with rings and pins, and well... rods are rods. Then just buy a set of standard rod bearings, a new oil pump, water pump, and alternator if you really want to redo everything. Get some arp studs and all the head stuff you were talking about. Then buy an engine gasket set and put it all back together. The machine shop will be able to tell you if you need to bore the block or if honing will do. The can also make sure everything is balanced. I would recommend having the block decked and the head as well if you are going with a metal headgasket. Of course replace the timing belt and the auto tensioner. I also got rid of the balance shafts, so no need for a balance shaft belt. MAKE SURE THE TIMING IS RIGHT. I used assembly lube on all my bearings and on the cams just because it's easy to work with and if you don't want to start the car for a while you have nothing to worry about. Just take your time when you put it all back together and triple check everything.

Already spoke about "standard size bearings".

If you are re-building the engine yourself, which I really do not recommend without having someone there that has successfully rebuilt a 4g63 before, you need to ensure that you check the ring gaps, correctly align the thrust bearing, and some other vital things. Good assembly lube is not optional, it is a must for parts protection on startup and break-in. You will need to properly prime the oil pump before starting the engine as well.

My other suggestion is that you do not use a metal headgasket. If the block and head are not properly machined, it will leak, no question. The composite head gasket is much more forgiving and will hold 25+psi if used with ARP head studs.

All in all, what I'm saying is spend the extra couple hundred dollars to have someone properly build you a short block. There are so many little things that I've left out and some that are not addressed by the manual that you really need to be aware of in order to make this a one time build and run project. The cost, if you do not get it correct the first time, will be much more than the cost to have someone properly build it correctly.

 

[Rick@AP]

Originally posted by awd4g63
Any tips on plastigage (sp?)?

Here's a good one...throw it out and buy yourself a micrometer.

Plastigauge will give you a rough estimate (if read correctly) and you don't want to build your new expensive engine around rough estimates.

 

[Rick@AP]

Originally posted by 1fast97gsx
I would not neccesarily use a super expensive brand new turbo for the break in ... I am using a used big 16g.

It doesn't matter which turbo you use for break-in as long as you can control the amount of boost that you are making.

If you are running an aftermarket wastegate then its even better as you can remove the spring which will not allow the turbo to build boost.

If you are worried about metal shavings messing up the turbo then you shouldn't be using a cheap oil filter. Think about it, if metal shavings are messing up the turbo what do you think they are doing to the rest of your engine? if you are parinoid then use an inline filter with the turbo oil feed.

 

[awd4g63]

Thanks for the advice

I was more or less concerned with using a expensive turbo setup on my new motor and everything; I've heard with the rings sealing and all, they can cause tiny metal shavings to go through the exhaust ports and cause damage to the exhaust wheel of the turbo.

 

[Rick@AP]

I guess it could happen but those shaving would end up being so small that it couldn't do much damage anyway. Your more likely to trap those particles in the oil and have it circulate through the pan, which is why you should use a good quality filter. The amount of metal that get pulled off the cylinder wall and rings SHOULD BE (on a proper break-in with no other problems) VERY small like, .0000x small. If you are getting anything larger than that you have a problem.

I've broken in engines using new turbos with no ill effects, you shouldn't have to worry about it.

 

[NOSNUSE]

Here's a good one...throw it out and buy yourself a micrometer.

Finally I have found someone with the same opinion on the use of Plasti-gauge. This is one of the best pieces of advice you can give to someone. There is alot involved in rebuilding an if you are really set on doing it yourself then at least allow someone who knows what they are doing to show you the ropes sort of speak, learn from them ask questions, it's the only way to learn this stuff.

 

[Groomz]

http://engineparts.com/motorhead/techstuff/crankgrind.html
http://engineparts.com/motorhead/techstuff/crankinstall.html
http://www.stealth316.com/2-breakin.htm

Here's some sites I know of. Good luck. I would also get some Clevite 77 bearings and get them coated with a low-friction coating. Check these guys out for that stuff:

www.swaintech.com

 

[modifyer]

"Here's a good one...throw it out and buy yourself a micrometer."

And a small dial bore gauge and countless other precision expensive measuring devices . Then educate yourself on how to use them so you get consistant readings . Before You measure anything make sure it has been thoroughly cleaned in a tank or spraywasher so You are not measuring dirt .
Better yet get someone that has the tools and does this kind of thing for a living . Then decide on wheter or not to machine or just polish the crank and what size bearings to buy . Why take chances and unless You plan to do rebuilding as a hobby or a living the tools will sit and collect dust most of the time .
One more thing after all the measuring has been done proper use of plasti-gauge is a good idea to verify your previous measurements during final assembly .

 

[tmizer]

Plastigage does have it's place. E.g., sometimes it's far easier for the poor, huddled masses to bolt, torque, and unbolt connecting rods on a crank than to do so in a fixture they may not have. Moreover, how many actually have an internal boregauge set AND micrometers. Green .001-.003 Plastigage is far cheaper. The money spent on gauges and micrometers (not cheap dial calipers) for something used a couple times in one's lifetime, might be better given to a machinist to do this work for you. Use the Plastigage to doublecheck his work and give yourself peace-of-mind when you're pulling several car lengths on that Mustang and WRX behind you

 

[GSXRolla]

Ok first let me start off by the general disclaimer --->>> I did do a search, but all the engine break-in questions really revolve around just rebuilding the block and picking up where they left off as far as mods.

I'm doing a few things to the car while it's been down... 6-bolt swap, fidanza flywheel, 6 puck sprung disc w/CFDF 2500 PP, 660cc Injectors, Super 20g Turbo w/supporting mods...

I know the engine should be tuned before really running this turbo very hard, and I know you sometimes really have to get on the gas in order to properly tune the fuel curve. W/the 660cc injectors, I know it WILL need to be tweaked at least slightly to get it running decent. SO, for the real questions...

With the break-in period being so important for the engine itself, how should I be running these injectors/turbo w/o screwing the break-in process? Just run really low boost? I haven't messed with tuning that much in the past, so this, of course, is a bad time to really learn (when the engine is being broken in). I'm just nervous about this thing grenading my engine w/o any proper tuning before hand.

Any suggestions of how I should handle this? Does it make sense?

 

[midnght]

Do you still have the stock turbo and injectors?



*( I don't want to buy them, it is to give you my suggestion.)*

 

[GSXRolla]

Nope, me being a cheap dumba$$ sold the turbo to put towards the new one. I still have the injectors, but I'm leary about using them with the s20g. Last thing I need to do is go lean and nuke the engine.

 

[herostar]

if you set the boost conservative like 11-12psi the stock injectors should be fine for your break-in

 

[GSXRolla]

I've still got the stock injectors, so that sounds like a really good idea. I was kinda nervous about what to do. The s20g doesn't really give much kick until about 3700-3850 RPMs from what I've been told, and it doesn't boost creap, so that sounds like a good suggestion for the break-in period. I've been trying to figure that out for a while now. Thanks guys!

 

[midnght]

If you want to be real safe (as I would). Throw a 14b (or T25) and injectors on for about the first 5,000k or so. Sounds like a small price to pay for an engine that is freshly rebuilt.

GRNDSM puts his 14b back in everytime he rebuilds his engine. He probly doesn't change injectors since he does it almost once a year or so, but that is VERY simple to do. The S20g will flow alot of air and you run some high risks with a that. Fuel cut, etc etc