Do I need upgraded pads with slotted and drilled rotors?

[antlip]

I was looking into buying slotted and drilled rotors that fit with out replacing the calipers. Do I need upgraded pads also? If so where and what kind should I get? Perferably the "dustless" kind.

 

[BaddAssGst]

I was looking into buying slotted and drilled rotors that fit with out replacing the calipers. Do I need upgraded pads also? If so where and what kind should I get? Perferably the "dustless" kind.

Ceramics offer little to no dust at all. I actually prefer OEM pads. Every OEM pad I've ever had has been quiet, gave off little dust, and lasted quite a while.

 

[Starscream]

Don't buy drilled rotors. They are more prone to cracking. Slotted rotors should be fine. Powerslot makes some good rotors, also you could buy some Brembo blanks.

For pads, I'd recommend Hawk HP if you want to improve.

 

[antlip]

Why do you say the drilled rotors crack? It seems like everyone has them. I dont plan on beating the car to death on a road course or going to the strip every week.

Also any input on the pads anyone? Could I stick with my regular "dustless" advance auto pads?

 

[Starscream]

Why do you say the drilled rotors crack? It seems like everyone has them. I dont plan on beating the car to death on a road course or going to the strip every week.

Also any input on the pads anyone? Could I stick with my regular "dustless" advance auto pads?

The drilled rotors crack because most of the times, the ones you see everyone has started their life as a solid rotor. Many shops buy solid rotors from a reputable vendor (Brembo, etc) but then proceed to drill holes in them. Solid rotors are made from different materials and composition than drilled rotors...if you drill holes in a solid rotor, you are making it weaker and more prone to cracking under heat.

Most people buy them for their looks more than functionality. Even Porsche began using solid rotors in their LeMans and GT cars.

Also, like you said, you don't plan on going to the track, so you don't need super brakes. Some Brembo blanks rotors and some Hawk HP or EBC pads, along with some stainless steel brake lines, and DOT 5.1 glycol based brake fluid (Be careful not to buy DOT 5 silicon based because it will give you a mushy pedal).

With those mods, your braking system will be greatly improved and without spending $$$$$$.

 

[d3m0]

Hey Antlip ,


Instead of trying to change your mind, i'll just let you have first-hand feedback. I own Brembo rotors crossdrilled and slotted by sportbrakes, and i've had them for about 4 months now. Absolutely NOTHING wrong with them, and I honestly don't see why everyone bashes them. I HAVE read some horror stories about cross drilled rotors cracking, but they're mainly from unheard of manufacterers - so just make sure you're purchasing the rotors from a reputable company; after all, your life is riding on these things, so I wouldn't cheap out on them.

To answer your question, an upgraded pad isn't critical, but I felt a noticable difference from OEM when I used the Axxis Pad / Brembo Rotor combo. It's been working for me, and i'd recommend it to anyone who wants better stopping power without spending an absurd amount of money on a big brake kit.

Hope this helps you make your decision

 

[SkyLineGtR-R34]

Hey Antlip ,


Instead of trying to change your mind, i'll just let you have first-hand feedback. I own Brembo rotors crossdrilled and slotted by sportbrakes, and i've had them for about 4 months now. Absolutely NOTHING wrong with them, and I honestly don't see why everyone bashes them.

A person would hope that they won't crack at least in the first 4 months. What about after a year?

 

[antlip]

Has anyone owned drilled and slotted brakes for over a long period of time like 3-4 years?

Here is the link to the brakes I was debating on buying. 230$ shipped for brembo drilled and slotted rotors. Worth it or not?


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...d=1,1&item=8061162343&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT

 

[SinaiTSi]

I have powerslot rotors up front with brembo OE rotors in the back and Axxis Metals all around. It's a great improvement over stock and I don't even get any noise with it, time will tell because I'm still breaking the system in though. I'd suggest that setup, just because the fronts will do most of the braking and will benefit most from the slotted rotors. From what it sounds like, you just want to upgrade your braking system, yet you won't be pounding on it. You really don't needed drilled rotors, I can see why you would want them for cosmetic reasons but I have heard a lot about cross-drilled being not as reliable. My whole setup cost me around $260 on www.importrp.com
Obviously you don't have to do exactly what I did, but they have great service and their prices are good.

As far as your original question, no you don't have to upgrade your brake pads at the same time as you change out your rotors, but yes, you do need to put in new pads, whether they be upgraded or not.

 

[4BangR-x]

Brembos drilled rotors are made in the forging process, they are cast with the entire rotor, not drilled afterwards. Same goes for Zimmerman brakes.

Ive not used PowerStop rotors but I have seen them crack first hand. The PowerSlots(same company) makes fantastic slotted rotors though I personally use them with Hawk HPS all around.

 

[turbo2g111]

Before you get slotted/drilled rotors, read this thread.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141849&highlight=slotted+drilled+rotors

 

[antlip]

Well are just slotted rotors safe? If everyone has trouble with drilled rotors and they brake causing accidents, then how do they sell them still?

 

[4BangR-x]

Oh and yes to answer the original question, you do need to buy new pads with new rotors

 

[4BangR-x]

Same reason they still sell guns, and yes slotted rotors are great.

 

[Starscream]

Well are just slotted rotors safe? If everyone has trouble with drilled rotors and they brake causing accidents, then how do they sell them still?

Because most people buy them for looks more than functionality. And companies like to profit

Also because many people are missinformed, and don't read before buying them...

For your goals, some slotted rotors, along with some good pads (Hawk, EBC, Axxis, etc) would be a great improvement. If you can, buy some stainless steel brake lines and DOT 5.1 Glycol based brake fluid.

 

[SinaiTSi]

It is unreasonable to say that every cross drilled rotor is unsafe, yet it's one of those things where why take the chance? Cross drilled rotors were developed in order to expel gasses quicker from earlier brake pad materials during heavy braking, known as "gassing out". With new materials in brake pads today, they don't expel nearly as much gas and contrary to popular belief, cross drilled don't actually lower temperatures, in fact by removing weight from the rotor, temperature is slightly increased and the holes create little stress risers that allow the rotor to crack sooner. Slotted on the other hand, helps keep pads clean over time cutting down on glazing. If the slots are shallow and cut properly (i.e. powerslots), then you get reliability with performance. Think about it, if cross-drilling was the way to go, NASCAR and F1 would be doing it, and they certainly need better braking than you or any of us do.

 

[DGajre777]

Before you get slotted/drilled rotors, read this thread.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141849&highlight=slotted+drilled+rotors

Those weren't brembo rotors, were they?! (They were ROTO-tech rotors). The cheap ebay rotors that are drilled might crack, not brembo ones. Do you know of anyone with a DSM with brembo blanks/rotors that were drilled and cracked? If you do, post their member name and I'll ask them to come in here and provide some info.

If drilled rotors kept cracking, companies like www.sportbrakes.com that sell nothing but blank brembo rotors and then slot or drill them, wouldn't be in business.

And did you read this on page 3 of the same thread you linked above?

I WOULD trust a set of brembo cross drilled/slotted rotors over a no-namer. while most feel there is no need for it, you try slowing down from 150 to 80 relatively fast and see how fast your brakes fade out. cross drilled and/or slotted can decrease brake fade under harsh conditions like that. and not even necessarily high speed, say youre cruising along at 75 and all of a sudden BOOM pile up on the freeway, with less fade youre going to stop sooner. doesnt take some big time UTI ASE cert to know that.

i used a set of brembo cross drilled/slotteds on my 94 tbird. i used to go through rotors pretty often cause its a heavier car and youre putting more heat and stress. got a set of the brembo's and i still have them 3 years later. i took them in to get turned and the guy said there wasnt much taken off and that they were pretty new. told him they were on the car for 2 years. guy shit bricks.

To answer the original thread poster's question, yes, you do need new pads with new rotors.

I bought slotted and cross drilled brembo rotors from ebay for $250 shipped. They are from www.sportbrakes.com. For brake pads, I went with www.importrp.com, OEM pads are ceramic, so I went with PBR Kevlar ceramic, costed me $90 shipped for front and rear. Here is my thread about the rotors and pads - http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225173

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

Don't buy drilled rotors. They are more prone to cracking. Slotted rotors should be fine. Powerslot makes some good rotors, also you could buy some Brembo blanks.

For pads, I'd recommend Hawk HP if you want to improve.

in over 2 years of selling the brake kits when i was with TSF we never ever had a single rotor come back or even be reported to be cracked. It's all in how it is done. If it is just a regular rotor that is drilled then you can have the problems. We always worked closely with a large brake company that had an on site machining facility and would do all of our rotors. I never understood what all they did but i know that it was a 5 step process that ended with the rotors being coated right before packaging. It all comes down to where the rotors come from. Hell I have hundreds of members from this community on my kits and never one issue.

 

[Splitpi]

I have the Slotted/Drilled "Brembos" rotors. I have not had any problems with them. Its only been 6 months but the zinc coating still looks beautiful on the tops and non-contact points of the rotor.

I am running EBC Greenstuff brake pads. They grip great and are fairly low dust (i.e. I really haven't noticed any dust buildup on my rims). Perhaps someone can confirm what I have heard... but I have heard that ceramics are not the best for a daily driver. The reason being is that they need to warm up inorder to grip properly... a process that is not common in normal daily driving.

 

[diablos991]

I have brembo drilled and slotted rotors as well. I got them in the middle of last winter and they are working just fine. I get nervous reading threads like this. But I check them every time I rotate my tires.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

something like the PBR Ultimates do take a bit longer to warm up but nothing like what you would consider excessive for daily use.

 

[Greg Collier]

It is unreasonable to say that every cross drilled rotor is unsafe, yet it's one of those things where why take the chance? Cross drilled rotors were developed in order to expel gasses quicker from earlier brake pad materials during heavy braking, known as "gassing out". With new materials in brake pads today, they don't expel nearly as much gas and contrary to popular belief, cross drilled don't actually lower temperatures, in fact by removing weight from the rotor, temperature is slightly increased and the holes create little stress risers that allow the rotor to crack sooner. Slotted on the other hand, helps keep pads clean over time cutting down on glazing. If the slots are shallow and cut properly (i.e. powerslots), then you get reliability with performance. Think about it, if cross-drilling was the way to go, NASCAR and F1 would be doing it, and they certainly need better braking than you or any of us do.

Good post… Drilled rotors will have a greater potential to crack under the stress of heavy braking in actual race conditions.

 

[DSMJim]

Before you get slotted/drilled rotors, read this thread.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141849&highlight=slotted+drilled+rotors

Yeah, he was usuing Roto-tech rotors from Ebay. They are junk. Thats not a well known manufacturer! THey are junk low quality casted rotors with a bunch of drill holes in them from a cnc machine in some guys garage. WTF is that.

My boxster has cross drilled rotors from the factory, guess what? They don't crack or break because they are quality OE parts from Porsche. They are 5 years old now and have 40k miles on them with no problems at all. I'm on my third set of brake pads of them with no problems. I will be replaceing them this winter and other than being below the wear limit, they are in perfect shape.

 

[drivemusicnow]

Because I'm bored at work, and am just a generally nice guy , I'm going to put together this small overview of myths and misinformation that are commonly spread about brakes. Please bear with me as I try to keep this as short as possible. Feel free to ask any questions about where I got my information, or about brakes in general.
(Too bad I'm at work and can't grab a beer for this.)

First the easy ones:

Are brake rotors cast with holes in them?
NO, not even porsche rotors. The only real difference between Joe shmoe with a cordless drill and the porsche brakes are the location of the holes. Porsche makes sure to locate the holes in the "empty" pockets where the vents are. This helps the structural integrity of the rotor, and reduces the weight that is removed.

Will Drilled or slotted rotors always crack?
NO. In most cases the only time you're going to have cracks in your rotors is when they are running track duty. Drilling rotors makes it much more likely that rotors will crack, as it typically adds more stress to the metal.

What do drilled or slotted rotors do for me on my street car?
Slots: slots will keep the pad "fresh" as the manufacturers say by removing any burnt or usless pad material. They will also help in the "gas" that is created (however as stated above, this is not nearly as much of a problem with newer pad compounds) They also decrease pad life by up to two times!
Holes: These will decrease pad and caliper temperature. They will increase rotor temperature. They will increase the likelihood of a rotor cracking, and don't increase braking ability. Supposedly, drilled holes can increase wet performance. I have not seen testing to support or refute this idea.

What will work best on my street car?
Honestly... the best solution for cost effective braking is to spend more money on a pad, less money on the rotor. I would buy the best street pads you can find (Hawks or Porterfields) with the cheapest OEM replacement rotors you can find. This will mean that you put new rotors on when you replace the pads. SS brake lines increase the "feel" of your brakes, but don't neccesarily decrease stopping distances. It is a good thing to do anyway, as old rubber lines can end up breaking/or leaking. You want to get a decent fluid as well. It should have a relatively high WET boiling point. As we're talking about a street car, you're not going to be changing your brake fluid every couple of weeks, So go with a decent fluid and change it at least every year. This setup will give you solid, long lasting, and great preforming brakes for your street car.

Cryo Treating WTF
This is going to be an extremely simple explanation: A phase diagram will show you the percentage of carbon in the metal against the temperature. Cast Iron (brake rotors) is a high carbon mixture. At high temperatures the carbon "mixes" with the metal. When you cool it off to room temperature, the carbon "falls out" of solution with the metal. The more you cool it, the more carbon seperates from the metal. If you continue this past room temperature and "Cryo treat" the rotor, it removes more carbon from solution. This basically reduces "internal stresses" in the piece (good thing)

Now, does cryo treating help? Theory would say no, because as soon as you heat your rotors up past the phase shift line (approx 800 Degrees F for cast iron), they will go back to how they were before you cryo treated them. Now, Ifyou never get your rotors up over the 800 degrees, then most likely it will significantly increase life. From race teams and street cars alike, the general "real life" experience says that cryo treating DOES help, and does increase the useable life of a rotor. Take this for what it is worth. No data has been collected as far as temperatures reached vs rotor life with cryo and non cryo treated rotors that I know of.



MORE READING: (cause I know you want more)

StopTech White Papers http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/tech_white_papers.shtml
Probably the most commonly sourced Tech information at present.

Please ask if you would like any more information on any specific topic. Todd at TCE is a member here and is extremely knowledgeable about brake systems.

 

[DGajre777]

Good write up, drivemusicnow. Put it in the tech guide.

I have had a few people tell me that I need to brake sooner in the rain with drilled rotors.