DKS Cams, too good to be true?

[boostjnkee]

What's up guys. Coming to the end of my parts list and the last part i need to complete my motor other than a crank (pm me if you have a stock/unturned 6 bolt crank please is a set of cams. I've looked and looked. I was looking at the bc 280's. they're pretty cheap, have a well known name. But seen many people say not to waste my money. So i looked at kelford's 272 cams. Heard great things, but i really don't want to spend more than $400 on cams, being that im broke =/. I found "dks" cams, and need to know what everyones thoughts are on them. Supposedly spec to hks cams, well made, and rather cheap. However, are they too cheap? Im not looking for the ultimate set of cams, just a nice set that will make decent power without taking a huge chunk from my wallet. My goals are around 5-600hp. all opinions and facts greatly appreciated! thanks guys!

 

[TofastForU_99]

We sell them here at Strictly Import Motorsports. Delta is a great company to work with and we have had no issues with any orders. Our core charge is 60.00 if you dont have cams and shipping is pretty quick here is a link to the ones we offer including our special SIM 275 grind.

SIM CUSTOM PRODUCTS

 

[kchaazz]

All the trash that has been talked about BC valve-train products originally came from inexperienced individuals who had no idea how to match the appropriate springs to the cam they bought. BC products are top notch, and a great value for the money. Their 272 cams have made over 500whp, which is more than most people will ever put down. To the OP, Id stick with DKS, BC, or the Delta HKS 272 grind in a street car.

 

[evil tsi]

i was thinking about the 101400

these are way too big for your set up. they are comparable to 288s the 101300s are comparable to 280s. they are the same cams as fp as well. the 300s are the fp 3s and 200s are the fp2s. stick with 272s if your doing a lot of street driving

 

[boostjnkee]

If bc's aren't as bad as everyone says they are, then i'll just get the bc 280's and bc dual valve springs. if it helps, my set up consists of a build bottom end(je pistons, eagle rods, full arp hardware), t4 gt35r (ball bearing), jmf race smim, t4 dnp manifold, and all supporting mods. I eventually plan on going bigger, and i don't want 272's for that reason. Yeah maybe they will do okay, but i'd rather just get 280's since they're usually the same price. but the kelford cams need beehive springs?

 

[kchaazz]

Yeah, the 280's will be ok for your setup. Are you wanting to have a beast of a street car, or just a drag whore?? Regarding the Kelford 272's, yes, they need beehive springs. The Kigglys seem to be the weapon of choice for the Kelfords, but the thing to know when choosing cams and springs is you must mate them correctly. By this I mean checking the specs of the cam- lift etc, vs the specs of the spring- pressure, coil bind, etc. (This is why the BC springs caught a bad rep- some kid throws the springs on with some monster cam whos lift, etc far exceeded the capability of the springs without doing any simple research before buying the combo and the springs came apart.)

Even the single BC springs are just fine for the BC 280's, 272's, 264's, for example. Check out this thread for tons of real world info on degreeing and cam tuning- with dyno testing!!:http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/361516-cam-test-i-will-dyno-test-delta-hks-272-delta-k272-bc-272-cams.html

 

[dexterholland04]

I run a set of Delta HKS 272 regrinds and absolutely love them. I definitely noticed a measurable difference in mid/top end power even when I was running the stock intake manifold. Next season I will be going to Delta's Kelford 272 grinds on new billets. My roommate, (BrokenTSI) runs them and they definitely make great power! My H272's were about $330 shipped (I chose not to exchange my cores), and I believe Drew spent about $400 on his Delta K272's. Thus far, I have been nothing but impressed with their cams. My other roommate runs a 272/264 reground cam in his Mini Cooper (another Delta grind) and it definitely woke his car up on the top end!

 

[boostjnkee]

Yeah, the 280's will be ok for your setup. Are you wanting to have a beast of a street car, or just a drag whore?? Regarding the Kelford 272's, yes, they need beehive springs. The Kigglys seem to be the weapon of choice for the Kelfords, but the thing to know when choosing cams and springs is you must mate them correctly. By this I mean checking the specs of the cam- lift etc, vs the specs of the spring- pressure, coil bind, etc. (This is why the BC springs caught a bad rep- some kid throws the springs on with some monster cam whos lift, etc far exceeded the capability of the springs without doing any simple research before buying the combo and the springs came apart.)

Even the single BC springs are just fine for the BC 280's, 272's, 264's, for example. Check out this thread for tons of real world info on degreeing and cam tuning- with dyno testing!!:http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/361516-cam-test-i-will-dyno-test-delta-hks-272-delta-k272-bc-272-cams.html

Well, im a senior in highschool =/ So im limited on my funding as my parent's don't hand me money . So it's going to be a street car with very little track time(cant afford to break stuff). I just want this to be a "beast of a street car" . A friend of mine has a built and boosted gsr ek coupe that made 500, and he talks MAD SMACK on dsm's. So im really hoping my setup will make at least 500. i don't plan on taking it to the track until the 2012 shootout .

 

[daren_p]

If you go BC, just remember to add adjustable cam gears to your shopping list. BC cams, especially the 280's are known to need degreeing on most setups from what I've heard.

The Kelford 272's do seem to have a better profile, they cost more but in most cases, they don't need to be degree'd (ie their actual cam matches what the cam card says, BC typically does not). So if you went Kelford without cam gears, your around the same cost.

From what I've seen, most say their Kelfords were bang on or needed one cam adjusted maybe a deg. When I hear guys talk about degreeing their BC cams, its normal to hear 3-4 deg on both cams. My Kelfords were bang on exhaust, 1 deg on the intake.

 

[-red97rum-]

Delta Cams FTW. I've been running a set of Delta 272's (HKS Profile) for almost 2 years. This car has seen many 8200+ rpm passes and the cams still look perfect. I don't know why people want to buy them through a vendor, unless you're specifically trying to support their business. Go straight to the source: Delta Camshaft the phone number is on their site and the guys are super easy to deal with. When I ordered mine they had them in stock and I received them within 2 business days. Don't deal with the 3rd party's $ markup, it's not like they are putting anything out to provide them to you.

 

[boostjnkee]

I run a set of Delta HKS 272 regrinds and absolutely love them. I definitely noticed a measurable difference in mid/top end power even when I was running the stock intake manifold. Next season I will be going to Delta's Kelford 272 grinds on new billets. My roommate, (BrokenTSI) runs them and they definitely make great power! My H272's were about $330 shipped (I chose not to exchange my cores), and I believe Drew spent about $400 on his Delta K272's. Thus far, I have been nothing but impressed with their cams. My other roommate runs a 272/264 reground cam in his Mini Cooper (another Delta grind) and it definitely woke his car up on the top end!

So you recommend the delta k272's? do i need the beehive springs like the kelfords or could i use bc dual valve springs? do you have a link to a site that sells them? thanks man

 

[dsmusmc]

You may be able to get away with EVO springs on the K272's. I know EVO springs and HKS grinds will be plenty. Just another option for springs that's usually over looked.

 

[bastarddsm]

I have the post above Wild96gs

I like and use and install alot of BC parts.
I have installed appox 40-50 sets of the BC1100 springs by now, I have yet to have a 4g head come back due to a BC failure.

Go back and read what I posted, and take the time to understand what I said.

What seat and nose pressures do you see with these springs. I had a set of these and they were less than 3% stiffer than well worn stockers. I personally tested them side by side on my rimac spring tester.

Evo springs were waaay softer than stockers, but they have the alum retainer and much less moving spring mass. But I have found that with EVO springs you can have seal to retainer clearance issues on 272 style cams. .410" lift caused the retainer to hit the seal. Delta "hks" 272's have .397" lift.

 

[daren_p]

You may be able to get away with EVO springs on the K272's. I know EVO springs and HKS grinds will be plenty. Just another option for springs that's usually over looked.

While I don't have personal experience with this, if it was me, I don't think I'd take the risk. I can see the evo spings being enough for an HKS profile, but the kelford profile is much more "aggressive".

A good dual or beehive setup is what you'll want for the Kelfords. Alot run the Kigglys, which is a perfect combo.

 

[ed1380]

What would be the max rpm for the hks272 regrinds with stock springs?

 

[dexterholland04]

So you recommend the delta k272's? do i need the beehive springs like the kelfords or could i use bc dual valve springs? do you have a link to a site that sells them? thanks man

To run the K272's, I would run AT LEAST Evo 8 valve springs and retainers. I was going to do the exact same thing (I have a set sitting in my garage). BC springs would be good enough as well to run with the cams. Delta's website is: Delta Camshaft

Just give them a call and order over the phone, they are really easy to deal with!

 

[kchaazz]

You cannot run the BC or Evo springs with Kelford 272s or the Delta K272s they will grenade before you can say aww shit. OP you will likely be happiest with the Delta H272 or the BC 272 in a street car. With your budget get the H or BC 272 the BC springs and a set of adjustable cam gears and be done with it. The Kelford 272 profile isnt even comparable to the other cams mentioned and theyre meant for balls to the wall top end drag cars. 500whp is easily attainable with the parts I mentioned above with the turbo and supporting mods you have I assure you. Look at the thread I linked to in my previous post.

 

[boostjnkee]

I've just stumbled across a great deal on a set of hks cams along with evo springs and retainers. So Ill go with this unless it falls through. If it does fall through, ill go with the dk272's with kiggy springs

 

[Wild93GS]

I have the post above Wild96gs

I like and use and install alot of BC parts.
I have installed appox 40-50 sets of the BC1100 springs by now, I have yet to have a 4g head come back due to a BC failure.

Go back and read what I posted, and take the time to understand what I said.

I understand what you said. I guess my question should have been why do BC fail when not properly installed compared to like hks or someone else? Maybe I'm just missing the point here. Idk.

 

[Boomdeeze]

I understand what you said. I guess my question should have been why do BC fail when not properly installed compared to like hks or someone else? Maybe I'm just missing the point here. Idk.

Most parts will fail when installed wrong. BC has a low price on their springs which results in more people buying them and some have no clue what they are doing. So when they install them wrong, they break. I run BC springs in my car now with the 274 cams and have revved it out to 9k many times and they have yet to fail.

 

[Wild93GS]

Alright. So it's all just user error. I just didn't know if somehow machining wise they didn't compare to the quality of say hks. If that makes any sense.

 

[awdjosh]

The hks 272's are one of my favorite setups, btw don't be scared to use regrinds.

 

[kchaazz]

Alright. So it's all just user error. I just didn't know if somehow machining wise they didn't compare to the quality of say hks. If that makes any sense.

Well, the machine shop installs the springs going by the specs that come with the springs and they install the springs correctly. Then, the guy who had the springs installed puts in some FP3X or some Kelford 272 cams which have waay too much lift for the springs he installed and the springs compress down too far and bind up and break. If you look at the specs of a cam vs the specs of a spring, you can easily determine which springs will work with what cam profiles. Thing is, some people just think "I bought aftermarket springs hell yeah Ima rev these cams to the moon yo." and wonder why their shit grenades and talk smack about a reputable company. Check out this info below. Look at the heights of the springs @ coilbind and the difference in lift between the K272 and the BC 272(BC, HKS and the like have comparable lift). The kelfords have nearly as much lift as a BC 288 cam

BC springs: BC1100: Closed- 1.500" @ 95 lbs / Open: 1.000" @ 235 lbs / Coil Bind: 0.910"

BC 272 Cams:
Adv. Dur.: 272/272
Dur @ .050: 212/212
Lift (mm): 10.18/9.66

Kelford beehives:
Closed Pressure: 72 lbs
- Closed Height: 1.535"
- Open Pressure: 200 lbs
- Open Height: 1.102"
- Coil Bind: 0.886"

Kelford 272 cams:
Inlet Duration @ 0.1mm Valve Lift : 272
Exhaust Duration @ 0.1mm Valve Lift: 272
Inlet Duration @ 1.00mm Valve Lift: 226
Exhaust Duration @ 1.00mm Valve Lift: 226
Inlet Valve Lift @ 1.73 Rocker Ratio: 11mm
Exhaust Valve Lift @ 1.73 Rocker Ratio: 11mm
Inlet Centerline @ Full Lift: 107
Exhaust Centerline @ Full Lift: 113

 

[etay89]

With the Keford cams, you will need to get BEEHIVE springs, the ones Kelford sells to match the cams, or Kiggly Beehives or Ferrea Beehives.

So now <b>the $400 Kelford cams</b> just became about $1000 for cams, springs and retainers

PLEASE SHOW ME KELFORDS FOR $400 (if they are of the 272 variety)

 

[kchaazz]

Extreme PSI is selling them cheaper than normal right now, though maybe not as low as 400.00. For clarification, BOGUS was actually referring to the DELTA K272 cams, which ARE 400.00 and cut from new billet blanks and are every bit as good as the real Kelfords. Dont be hatin

 

[Wild93GS]

Well, the machine shop installs the springs going by the specs that come with the springs and they install the springs correctly. Then, the guy who had the springs installed puts in some FP3X or some Kelford 272 cams which have waay too much lift for the springs he installed and the springs compress down too far and bind up and break. If you look at the specs of a cam vs the specs of a spring, you can easily determine which springs will work with what cam profiles. Thing is, some people just think "I bought aftermarket springs hell yeah Ima rev these cams to the moon yo." and wonder why their shit grenades and talk smack about a reputable company. Check out this info below. Look at the heights of the springs @ coilbind and the difference in lift between the K272 and the BC 272(BC, HKS and the like have comparable lift). The kelfords have nearly as much lift as a BC 288 cam

BC springs: BC1100: Closed- 1.500" @ 95 lbs / Open: 1.000" @ 235 lbs / Coil Bind: 0.910"

BC 272 Cams:
Adv. Dur.: 272/272
Dur @ .050: 212/212
Lift (mm): 10.18/9.66

Kelford beehives:
Closed Pressure: 72 lbs
- Closed Height: 1.535"
- Open Pressure: 200 lbs
- Open Height: 1.102"
- Coil Bind: 0.886"

Kelford 272 cams:
Inlet Duration @ 0.1mm Valve Lift : 272
Exhaust Duration @ 0.1mm Valve Lift: 272
Inlet Duration @ 1.00mm Valve Lift: 226
Exhaust Duration @ 1.00mm Valve Lift: 226
Inlet Valve Lift @ 1.73 Rocker Ratio: 11mm
Exhaust Valve Lift @ 1.73 Rocker Ratio: 11mm
Inlet Centerline @ Full Lift: 107
Exhaust Centerline @ Full Lift: 113

Gotcha. I knew you had to match em so you didn't get valve float but didn't know exactly what you had to match up. Thanks for clarifying.