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diffusers, canards, and wings

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Hiitman

15+ Year Contributor
482
3
May 12, 2004
Colorado Spring, Colorado
sorry to all you guys that live on the 1/4 mile but this question is for the gt and circuit fellas. Has anyone gotten to the point where they start taking aerodynamics into account for speed purposes. using cannards and wings for downforce and air ducts to cool the engine, brakes, ect. Any input would be appreciated.
 
If you look around, there are lots of good sources for infromation about brake ducts. Several people have fashioned adapters that shoot the air exactly where you want it: the center of the rotor, right next to the hub. It's not really useful to just bounce it off the side of the rotor.

There is also some good information out there on extraction vents, which can make a huge difference. I made mine in about two hours using $20 in parts from WalMart (see my profile for better pics). You can also increase flow through the radiator with a airdam under the front fascia and/or a splitter out front.

A real oil-to-air oil cooler is a must for road-racing. Most people use an Evo oil-filter housing (which you can get from Mach V).

As to aero: I haven't seen a whole lot on canards, but many people have dumped their useless OE wings and gotten real ones. Greg Collier's car is a nice example.

- Jtoby
 
Hiitman said:
sorry to all you guys that live on the 1/4 mile but this question is for the gt and circuit fellas. Has anyone gotten to the point where they start taking aerodynamics into account for speed purposes. using cannards and wings for downforce and air ducts to cool the engine, brakes, ect. Any input would be appreciated.

My reality is aerodynamics. Down force is a major priority at the beginning, middle, and especially at the end of a race when you're running low on fuel. We're constantly dealing with cooling issues, brake wear, etc.

Read the following links and if you have specific questions I'd be more than happy to help!

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225332

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210879
 
I don't think that this topic is 2g specific, actually its really non DSM specific. Aero Packages can be moved from on vehicle to the next with a little adjustment for each to balance the resulting downforce.

Here is my setup.

For Brake Cooling, I have ducts from where the factory fog lights mount, kind of getto taped in to a 2 inch flexible plastic duct (similar to what you have on a washing machine only larger dia.) directed to the back side of my rotors. It works good from what i have done so far.

I also have a front splitter that goes back to the front side of the wheel wells thats directly bolted to the subframe assembly. Its made out of this really high tech composite material called plywood. Actually knowing what I know about building race cars and manufacturing composite materials I could fab a carbon fiber one really easy. But the wood works great, cheap to fix if you mess up unloading the car off the trailer or hit some random small creatures. Its durable and provides enough stiffness to be effective. I may make a carbon one in the future but it will probably be more to say yea its carbon fiber.

In the rear I have a universal wing mounted on custom aluminum supports. The wing has been modified slightly to increase the attach angle on the trailing edge.

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The new issue of SCC has alot about aerodynamics in it...check it out
 
Good looking pieces there rusher. Have you had any issues with the plywood and rain? My father's an excellent woodworker and I'd thought about using plywood as opposed to fiberglass/carbon fiber before, but since my car sits outside under a car cover I didn't want to have to take it on and off all of the time.

I've begun some work on the front end of the car to aid in cooling. Hopefully we'll get a little further into the aerodynamics section later this year.

Vents for cooling and aero
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Fiberglassed intake
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Still need to finish blocking off the area around the oil cooler
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Extra radiator inlet above intercooler, the little slots next to the eagle logo have been opened as well.
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Heat extraction vent in hood
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Brace for upper mounts for forthcoming splitter, will also be used as a basis for blocking off the radiator.
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Brake ducting will be from integrated naca ducts on the front bumper similar to the RRE car, but larger. (I've seen recent photos of their car using larger ducts than when this photo was taken)
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The RRE car's NACA ducts are what I was going to do (or could still do, if I change my mind) for an extra shot of air to my oil cooler I have sitting in the garage. I decided to move my foglights about 2" up from the ducts they sit in to accomodate my oil cooler, which I'm positioning like terefic181's oil cooler install tech article (hey, I like my foglamps, and I've modified them so they can come off in 2 min. with a 10mm ratchet :) ).

But that does look like a great idea for a brake duct inlet.

Kyle, how'd you make your headlamp scoop? I was actually thinking about doing that, but I was going to cut a hole in the high--beam portion of the headlamp and stick a velocity stack in there for a straight shot to the filter.
 
I keep it inside most of the time. However its been rained on a few times. Really think of a deck, if the wood is properly sealed you shouldn't have an issue with warpage. You could always spread a thin layer of epoxy passed resin over the top of the plywood. Another thought I had was to wrap a low density wood (balsa) with two layers of heavy (10 oz twill) Carbon Fiber. I will run the plywood until it breaks then maybe replace it with a more professional CF piece. I do want to make a cleaner looking brake duct and improve the airflow.
 
Headlight scoop.

Gut a factory headlight, cutout the forward facing part of the lens.
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Then I made a foam mold of what I wanted the rear half to be.
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Blended the two together with more fiberglass strips and then bondo'ed and painted it to give it a sort of smooth finish.
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I think I might talk to my dad about the whole plywood idea. I'd also thought about putting a thin layer of fiberglass around the outside of it to add a layer of protection.
 
mavisky said:
I think I might talk to my dad about the whole plywood idea. I'd also thought about putting a thin layer of fiberglass around the outside of it to add a layer of protection.

I've seen a guy use a piece of 1/8" paneling then fiberglass it. It was pretty study and light weight to boot...
 
Looks awesome Kyle. :thumb:

Sounds like something to keep me busy in the winter. :)
 
Hey Kyle, I know you've probably written this up before, but I'm about to go to bed and am lazy.. (it is 3:30 in the morning) Just wondering how much the hood was, and from where did you obtain it?

I'm personally torn between making a "track hood" and cutting it up, and bending it to fit, and then putting the stock one one for whatever street driving I do, versus spending the money on one like that.
 
I got my hood through an ebay shop, I believe the name was Carbon Innovations or something along those lines. It's a VIS hood, they just were selling them at a rediculously low price at the time.

It's about the same money to go with a vented hood like this as it is to get a carbon hood and add a carbon vent like Greg's from Carbontrix. I was going to go that method until I found this hood and a good photo of it on someone's car and figured I'd rather spend the money up front than go hacking into my new CF hood to mount the carbontrix vent, especially since my buddy's insurance company was paying for the hood anyways.
 
Just wondering if someone design a ALTERNATOR cooling diffuser or something. I'm presently frying one alternator every 1-2 sessions at my home track and ready to throw the towel. My downpipe is wrap, coated painted with high temp etc, i'm presently looking for more cooling and maybe a DEI shield to by between the downpipe and alternator...
Too bad only the 1G relocation kit fits, this is my ONLY problemm right now, any help would be appreciated...
heres a pic of yesterday :)
 

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Poloturbo said:
Just wondering if someone design a ALTERNATOR cooling diffuser or something. I'm presently frying one alternator every 1-2 sessions at my home track and ready to throw the towel. My downpipe is wrap, coated painted with high temp etc, i'm presently looking for more cooling and maybe a DEI shield to by between the downpipe and alternator...
Too bad only the 1G relocation kit fits, this is my ONLY problemm right now, any help would be appreciated...
heres a pic of yesterday :)

First off, great looking car. If I ever buy a 2G it will look exactly like yours; red w/black top, black wheels, and that spoiler. I love it!

For your alternator problems, I hate to say it, but you're probably going to have to cut a whole in that hood for a carbontrix vent or replace the hood. There is just no way for the hot air to get out of the engine bay. Slowoldpoop melted a timing belt cover, wiring harnesses, and other parts from all the underhood heat. After the carbontrix vent, it's been much, much better. He finally added an outlet for all that hot air.

It's also better to vent the air out the hood then try and pull it out under the engine. Air under the engine will create lift in the front end and cause instability at speed. You actually want a vacuum under the car for stability. If you can divert air around and over the car, it'll have much more grip at speed.

For a temporary fix, you could fab up an aluminum plate and some heat sheilding material (underhood liner works). We did that on Slowoldpoop's car at the track and it worked to finish out the day. But with the vent in the hood, there is dramatically less heat in the engine bay after a session. That can only help wiring harnesses, plastic parts, rubber seals, air intake temperature, etc.

I believe Road Race Engineering said they'd never race a car without a Carbontrix vent over the turbo. Our experiences proved that part as a necessity and not just a nice-to-have.

Edit: Just another thought, but how close is the wastegate and dumptube? Is it wrapped? Do you have any pics of the engine bay uploaded?
 
stealthTT said:
First off, great looking car. If I ever buy a 2G it will look exactly like yours; red w/black top, black wheels, and that spoiler. I love it!

For your alternator problems, I hate to say it, but you're probably going to have to cut a whole in that hood for a carbontrix vent or replace the hood. There is just no way for the hot air to get out of the engine bay. Slowoldpoop melted a timing belt cover, wiring harnesses, and other parts from all the underhood heat. After the carbontrix vent, it's been much, much better. He finally added an outlet for all that hot air.

It's also better to vent the air out the hood then try and pull it out under the engine. Air under the engine will create lift in the front end and cause instability at speed. You actually want a vacuum under the car for stability. If you can divert air around and over the car, it'll have much more grip at speed.

For a temporary fix, you could fab up an aluminum plate and some heat sheilding material (underhood liner works). We did that on Slowoldpoop's car at the track and it worked to finish out the day. But with the vent in the hood, there is dramatically less heat in the engine bay after a session. That can only help wiring harnesses, plastic parts, rubber seals, air intake temperature, etc.

I believe Road Race Engineering said they'd never race a car without a Carbontrix vent over the turbo. Our experiences proved that part as a necessity and not just a nice-to-have.

Edit: Just another thought, but how close is the wastegate and dumptube? Is it wrapped? Do you have any pics of the engine bay uploaded?


Thanks for your words guy...

THe thing is that I already have that Carbontrix vent, not very visible in that picture though... It helped quite a bit but the problem is that this small track is a big brake and turn track not even a long staight enough to cool anything.
I already in the past melted my t-belt cover, burn some wires, boil the power steering oil.
THe vent helped but putting synthetic PS oil and wrapping with cool tape the canister helped also.
My only other option right now is the "versa Shield" from DEI that I will try to put between the downpipe and the alternator, the stock shield does'nt fit...

I will probably try to make a small passage for air to the alternator or remove the second headlight every time I lap...

heres a pic that you can tell the vent is there :) How do BBracing are doing it with there 2G?
 

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Poloturbo said:
I will probably try to make a small passage for air to the alternator or remove the second headlight every time I lap...

Having the end tank of your FMIC and the radiator in front of the alternator really stalls any air at that point. Might I suggest you run a duct from the driver's side opening of your bumper to bath the alternator with fresh air?
 
Greg Collier said:
Having the end tank of your FMIC and the radiator in front of the alternator really stalls any air at that point. Might I suggest you run a duct from the driver's side opening of your bumper to bath the alternator with fresh air?


I thought of that and this is my second thing to do after the shielding between the downpipe and the alternator.

How come nobody with a 2G had that problem?
 
Poloturbo said:
Thanks for your words guy...

THe thing is that I already have that Carbontrix vent, not very visible in that picture though... It helped quite a bit but the problem is that this small track is a big brake and turn track not even a long staight enough to cool anything.
I already in the past melted my t-belt cover, burn some wires, boil the power steering oil.
THe vent helped but putting synthetic PS oil and wrapping with cool tape the canister helped also.
My only other option right now is the "versa Shield" from DEI that I will try to put between the downpipe and the alternator, the stock shield does'nt fit...

I will probably try to make a small passage for air to the alternator or remove the second headlight every time I lap...

heres a pic that you can tell the vent is there :) How do BBracing are doing it with there 2G?

You don't have the vent backwards do you? I saw a dsm at MOD this weekend with the Carbontrix vent going to the wrong way trying to do ram-air. :(

As Greg said, maybe some ducting will help. While you're in there you could seal up the sides around the intercooler and radiator. Remove the pockets of turbulent air and you'll increase the flow through the intercooler and radiator.

Good luck.
 
stealthTT said:
You don't have the vent backwards do you? I saw a dsm at MOD this weekend with the Carbontrix vent going to the wrong way trying to do ram-air. :(

As Greg said, maybe some ducting will help. While you're in there you could seal up the sides around the intercooler and radiator. Remove the pockets of turbulent air and you'll increase the flow through the intercooler and radiator.

Good luck.


he he, no the vent is to expulse the hot air not to do a ram air effect, I knew that... :)

LEt you know what works

thanks for your help guys
 
Poloturbo said:
he he, no the vent is to expulse the hot air not to do a ram air effect, I knew that... :)

LEt you know what works

thanks for your help guys

I figured you were that smart, but then you go to an event and see someone did make that mistake. ROFL

Good luck.
 
Just a small update

For you guy's using a 2G with the problem of not beeing able to relocate the alternator and frying an alternator once and a while...

On the 4th alternator, the extreme heat from the custom DP and WG dumptube where killing my alternators like a serial killer.

It is not pretty but I'm using a DEI Versa shield between the downpipe and the alternator covering the portion between the WG also...
I've installed a rigid drying machine kinda tunel from the ancient "fog" portion the bring air to the other side of the alternator.
With 3-4 sessions now and one small time attack at 19 psi of boost, NO PROBLEM...

NExt step is a turbo blanket on my turbo upgrade, from boost logic or else.
 
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