Resolved Differences between turbo and non turbo 4g63 6 bolt blocks

[genxxxracer]

Like the subject says what are the differences between the turbo and non turbo engine. If its a 4g63 6 bolt from a first gen non turbo how does it differ from the turbo one.

Heres my plan. I need to remove the 7bolt in my second gen due to blown rings and pistons. I have found a first gen 6 bolt. I have a first gen head already from a turbo so I just need the block. If I replace the pistons and rods will I be alright or are there incompatibility issues Im going to have to deal with.

 

[aaron_henderson]

Are there any differences in the actual block itself? Oh, I am referring to the 1G's by the way. Not talking about pistons or crank or anything but the actual block. Anyone know if there are any major differences? I have my 4G63 NT apart and need to know if anything needs to be done to prep it for 350ish HP with a turbo setup.

 

[marcmsj]

The blocks are pretty much the same except the turbo block will have the oil squirter passages which most guys plug up on a built motor anyway. The NT block will do 350hp without a problem. Horsepower wise, turbo or NT will be able to take the same punishment with no prep needed to the blocks.

 

[RoasT BeeF]

If the car is going to be daily driven I would recommend installing the oil squirters to cool the piston crowns. There is alot of info on this topic in the forums though if you do a search. That's just my opinion.

 

[aaron_henderson]

If the car is going to be daily driven I would recommend installing the oil squirters to cool the piston crowns. There is alot of info on this topic in the forums though if you do a search. That's just my opinion.

The basic consensus seems to be drawn at around 50/50, so I think I'll leave it as is this time around. Maybe I'll consider it again the next time I have this thing pulled apart.

 

[0001]

turbo pistons in a n/t block is nice its what i was gunna do.

 

[aaron_henderson]

turbo pistons in a n/t block is nice its what i was gunna do.

That's the plan actually. I'll be running the 2G turbo pistons (8.5:1) on my NA motor until I get my turbo setup pieced together.

 

[TOONAH]

Since I just built a NT block into a turbo I thought I would add my two cents worth on
the oil squirter question. First off oil squirters do not squirt oil on the piston crown. So no matter how hot the crown gets, squirters make no real difference. They actually do cool the cylinders down, but at lower rpms. Heat in an engine is always to be considered. It is all to do with the cubic capacity of the combustion area and the peak pressure achieved there in. With 30 PSI of boost these engines can see over 250 PSI of pressure internally. One must run good fuel or all the fancy mods in the world will be defeated by your knock sensor.
I have seen videos of 4g63's exhaust manifold's glowing red. Thats heat! I'll trust the DSM engineers who believed that the squirters were essential for boosted daily drivers. How ever that was before Fully Synthethic oil was available to the masses. I plan on running Royal Purple in my baby. Nothing but the best begets the best. I put Mahle pistons (which cost me $550) in my embrionic beast , so what's $8.50 a quart for some oil?

 

[MrBoxx]

First off oil squirters do not squirt oil on the piston crown. So no matter how hot the crown gets, squirters make no real difference.

They squirt at the bottom of the piston crown.

I have seen videos of 4g63's exhaust manifold's glowing red.

This happens after driving a car more than 30 minutes. My car's mani and turbine housing would glow after my daily drive to work. Royal Purple oil versus dino oil has absolutely nothing to do with that.

 

[T is for TURBO]

If you plan on running stock turbo pistons, I would recommend the squirters. If you go with forged pistons, than don't worry about it.
Glowing exhaust manifolds don't have anything to do with oil squirters. Stock manifold is cast iron, cast iron holds heat like nobody's business (don't forget, its moslty heat thats spools the turbo, rather than just the flow of gasses). Also, synthentic oil doesn't have a whole lot to do with the cooling of engine internals. Yes it can handle heat better which means it lasts longer, but it doesn't magically cool the engine better that regular mineral oils, if it does cool any better than regular oil, the amount is negligable, and can be offset by a bigger oil cooler.

 

[kwbunn]

If it's any help to you, I had my 4G64 bottom end done by a professional machine shop, and they couldn't machine it for the squrters (check my blog). I have forged Wisecos in it, as well. With that being said, the machine shop still machined the rods to approximate the same idea as squirters - forged pistons and machined rods might be an option for you, too.

 

[aaron_henderson]

If it's any help to you, I had my 4G64 bottom end done by a professional machine shop, and they couldn't machine it for the squrters (check my blog). I have forged Wisecos in it, as well. With that being said, the machine shop still machined the rods to approximate the same idea as squirters - forged pistons and machined rods might be an option for you, too.

Anyone know of some descent forged pistons that won't kill me in price? So you guys don't think I should attempt the turbo without the oil squirters with stock 2G turbo pistons...what about with ceramic coated 2G's?

 

[TOONAH]

Fully synthetic oil molecules do not seperate at high temperatures and hence provide better lubrication
under performance conditions. Any body who thinks that the quality of oil does not matter has never
raced cars. The quality of every single component in a performance machine is important. My motto is:
"An electro-mechanical system is only as reliable as its individual components". Besides which I am a Virgo, hence I am a perfectionist. My project 4G63 is outfitted with Mahle pistons. Piston to wall specification is 0.0015". I say the best oil is critical since I am not using oil squirters. I have also modified the top of the firewall to vacate hot air from under the hood. I want to keep it all cool.
I just want to mention I have been modding 4 cylinder engines since 1965. Especially British ones. My boyhood hero was Bruce McClaren. We all know the McClaren F1 is the fastest production car on the planet

 

[interex]

Anyone know of some descent forged pistons that won't kill me in price?

I sent you a PM about a set of new/unused 2G Arias pistons I have I need to get rid of if you are interested.

 

[MrBoxx]

Any body who thinks that the quality of oil does not matter has never raced cars.

No one's doubting that oil quality is important. But it has jack to do with whether your exhaust mani glows red. That's perfectly normal for these cars.

We all know the McClaren F1 is the fastest production car on the planet

Uhh.... not anymore. The SCC Ultimate Aero currently has that honor, beating the Bugatti Veyron and the Koenigsegg, both of which are significantly faster than the Mclaren.

 

[interex]

Hehe... The Aero TT does 0-60 in 2.78 seconds. vroooom!

 

[TOONAH]

Holy Smoke Batman, 2.78 secs! That'll suck your teeth out! Of course I know that glowing manifolds has nothing to do with what oil you use. I just said that to illustrate how hot 4G63's can get. Must be my British language. I said PRODUCTION car. If you have the cash you can buy an F1!

 

[interex]

The Aero is a production car, and if you have the $$ you can buy one of those also

 

[TOONAH]

Say Interex, that Aero TT is an evil car to be sure.
I have an actual question for you that is pertinent to this thread.
I have to add a turbo oil drain pipe to my non-turbo oil pan. The question is
what? An 4-AN fitting? some kind of universal deal? Your advice is welcome.
Don't want to buy a new oil pan.

 

[aaron_henderson]

Nobody have any opinions on getting 2G pistons (stock) and having them ceramic coated? Maybe some upgraded rings? What kind of power could safely be run with that type of setup without the oil squiters?