Did your ACT clutch fail on you? If so, post here

[laserspeeddemon]

Thats still a 1g. The 2g's are a little different.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

I'm much too lazy to go through 7 pages so can anybody post the batch number of the clutch disks that have been known to fail? I'm about to purchase one and I want to be sure not to get shafted. Just a precaution. Please dont respond about proper installation type crap.

 

[boostedinaz]

I'm much too lazy to go through 7 pages so can anybody post the batch number of the clutch disks that have been known to fail? I'm about to purchase one and I want to be sure not to get shafted. Just a precaution. Please dont respond about proper installation type crap.

Lazy indeed

All you had to do was look at the frist post and see what date it was started. It has been almost a YEAR, so I think any new clutch you get will be the updates one. See how easy it is to do just a bit of work.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

Lazy indeed

All you had to do was look at the frist post and see what date it was started. It has been almost a YEAR, so I think any new clutch you get will be the updates one. See how easy it is to do just a bit of work.

Gimme a break boostedinaz. The one I'm looking to purchase has 3 rivets which is why I think its old and has been sitting around on somebodys shelf. Hence the batch number question.

 

[FiReBReTHa]

Heh,

62K ACT 2600 + Xact flywheel installed + new TOB

now at 92K something is DEFinitly going on down there.
More info to follow. I will post what failed and with no blame to ACT for 30,000 miles of usage.

Weird part is that there was typicall TOB noise and then today at a couple stop lights I couldnt get into first gear (new Master cyl full fluid) and then when I got to where I was going the pressure finally came back kind of. like the pedal has been soft for the past couple weeks and then now its back to hard and when engaged I feel a shaking/rumbling thru the pedal. I never engaged first gear at that point because I felt it was best to come inside to work and post on tuners.

Im not to sure if what I described is common for the failure we are discussing but I hope it might help a bit.

 

[crashed97tsi]

Heh,

62K ACT 2600 + Xact flywheel installed + new TOB

now at 92K something is DEFinitly going on down there.
More info to follow. I will post what failed and with no blame to ACT for 30,000 miles of usage.

Weird part is that there was typicall TOB noise and then today at a couple stop lights I couldnt get into first gear (new Master cyl full fluid) and then when I got to where I was going the pressure finally came back kind of. like the pedal has been soft for the past couple weeks and then now its back to hard and when engaged I feel a shaking/rumbling thru the pedal. I never engaged first gear at that point because I felt it was best to come inside to work and post on tuners.

Im not to sure if what I described is common for the failure we are discussing but I hope it might help a bit.

Maybe rebleed the system and try adjusting the clutch pedal. I'm just taking a stab in the dark here but I would try those before going through the whole process of taking the tranny out again. That was a royal PITA.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Maybe rebleed the system and try adjusting the clutch pedal. I'm just taking a stab in the dark here but I would try those before going through the whole process of taking the tranny out again. That was a royal PITA.

Its not that hard. I can usually do it in about 5-6 hours. And thats fooling around while I take smoke breaks, etc.

 

[crashed97tsi]

Yeah, but bench pressing the tranny is never a fun thing to do. I'm sure with a tranny jack it would be much more forgiving.

 

[FiReBReTHa]

Its not that hard. I can usually do it in about 5-6 hours. And thats fooling around while I take smoke breaks, etc.

I wish I could!
Lack of tools SUCKS!!

I just tried out the car, the pedal has normal pressure for once (its been soft) but when I engage the clutch the cars RPMs drop and then starts to drop low to stall then pops right back up.
Left turn and clutch gives same results as sitting.

I hope its not "c"
shh.... dont say the word......

And after I have the clutch pedal pressed and the noise going it smokes a bit from the side. I cant figure out if a bad TOB can cause the car do stall out or a bad clutch disk. oh well.

 

[Nayr747]

I have no idea what gives you guys so much faith in companies to look out for you. A company has one goal: to make a profit. Your safety and happines only factor in when it will cost them money. Take the Ford Pinto for example: After doing crash tests and finding that the gas tank errupted catching the car on fire, Ford did a cost-benifit analysis, taking into account how much the impending law suits would cost them and how much the re-design would cost and decided to produce the cars anyway, killing many people.

"The financial analysis that Ford conducted on the Pinto concluded that it was not cost-efficient to add an $11 per car cost in order to correct a flaw. Benefits derived from spending this amount of money were estimated to be $49.5 million. This estimate assumed that each death, which could be avoided, would be worth $200,000, that each major burn injury that could be avoided would be worth $67,000 and that an average repair cost of $700 per car involved in a rear end accident would be avoided. It further assumed that there would be 2,100 burned vehicles, 180 serious burn injuries, and 180 burn deaths in making this calculation. When the unit cost was spread out over the number of cars and light trucks which would be affected by the design change, at a cost of $11 per vehicle, the cost was calculated to be $137 million, much greater then the $49.5 million benefit. "


http://www.fordpinto.com/blowup.htm

If ACT can get away with telling people it's an installation error and are not responsible, they will. They are not looking out for your car. It seems that many people on here are quick to go along with ACT's response and blame DSMers for the problem (isn't this like Magnacore's response?). I'm just trying to say that you should keep in mind the company's purpose.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Well this isn't Ford and this isn't the mid '70s.

Advances in business have been significant. In order for a Coperation to make money, it needs to have customers. And you're not going to have that if you piss them off. As far as trusting ACT I researched the problem an conducted experiments which resulted siding with ACT. They say the clutch won't fail if you install it right, and it won't.

 

[boostedinaz]

I have no idea what gives you guys so much faith in companies to look out for you. A company has one goal: to make a profit. Your safety and happines only factor in when it will cost them money. Take the Ford Pinto for example: After doing crash tests and finding that the gas tank errupted catching the car on fire, Ford did a cost-benifit analysis, taking into account how much the impending law suits would cost them and how much the re-design would cost and decided to produce the cars anyway, killing many people.

"The financial analysis that Ford conducted on the Pinto concluded that it was not cost-efficient to add an $11 per car cost in order to correct a flaw. Benefits derived from spending this amount of money were estimated to be $49.5 million. This estimate assumed that each death, which could be avoided, would be worth $200,000, that each major burn injury that could be avoided would be worth $67,000 and that an average repair cost of $700 per car involved in a rear end accident would be avoided. It further assumed that there would be 2,100 burned vehicles, 180 serious burn injuries, and 180 burn deaths in making this calculation. When the unit cost was spread out over the number of cars and light trucks which would be affected by the design change, at a cost of $11 per vehicle, the cost was calculated to be $137 million, much greater then the $49.5 million benefit. "


http://www.fordpinto.com/blowup.htm

If ACT can get away with telling people it's an installation error and are not responsible, they will. They are not looking out for your car. It seems that many people on here are quick to go along with ACT's response and blame DSMers for the problem (isn't this like Magnacore's response?). I'm just trying to say that you should keep in mind the company's purpose.

Hey the 70's called then need there financial advice back.

Today is a consumer driver market. How many other clutch companies are out there? IF you dont ike ACT then all you have to do is click a website and there is more clutch companies that can help you. If all they cared about was money then they wouldnt have any customers nor be in business as long as they have.

 

[Nayr747]

I'm not saying it's just Ford or ACT, I'm saying that's what a company, any company in any time period, does. It's a misconseption that companies factor anything but profit and loss. Most of the time what's profitable is what makes people happy, sometimes it's not. I'm not saying it's just ACT and that you should use a different clutch. What I'm saying is you have to look out for yourself because that's not part of what a company does. If it's the company's fault and it will cost them more to admit it then they wont do it. YOU have to make them accountable. No one else will. Think about crankwalk. Have DSM owners seen a dime or an apology from Mitsu? Think about it. Has magnacore blamed anyone but DSMers? The fact is these are not isolated incidents "in the 70's," it's just part of what a company does.

Look laserspeeddemon, I realize you had a good experience with ACT and it made you loyal to them. But you're discounting all the people that had problems that also had their dowel pins in place. You're also discounting all the people that said they had a BAD experience dealing with ACT about their problem.

 

[MattO]

Mine failed with 5,100 miles on it. I had the 2600 with the street disk. The disk had all 4 rubber inserts fail. The 2 springs in the disk appear intact. I had a street disk from a 2100 kit I bought in 3/2003 and it was fully sprung. The 2600 that I purchased in 3/2004 had the rubber insert/spring hub. It's obvious to me that ACT has cheaped out in the 3/2003 to 3/2004 time frame and tried to save a buck by going with the hybrid hub.

I will not be replacing with another ACT setup. I think I will go with a SBR setup.

Matt

Carnage pics

 

[v8s_are_slow]

i had my tranny out and was gonna replace my tob cause i thought that's what was making noise. dunno why i decided to do it but i took the clutch alignment pin and stuck it in the clutch and tried to turn it for the heck of it. to my surprise it was really loose. bought a new clutch disc and after 50 miles at the most the springs popped out (50 highway miles). ACT said they wouldn't give me my money back but would replace my clutch after sending it in for inspection to verify the cause of it (which meant i'd have to pay to ship it there as well). why would i want a 3rd one??? i had already bought a different brand clutch at the time anyway so the replacement would be a waste to me. no money back, needless to say i was pissed.

i will say that i like the ACT2600 pp but i'm staying away from the street disc. just pondering what disc to go with when i get my new motor this time around. hmmm....

 

[IMMORTALSPYDER]

I was shopping for a clutch when these ACT scares just started happening. Since there was no other explanations at the time except for the "bad batch" idea I bought an Exedy. I personally don't have any experience with the ACT clutches, but the 1 thing that makes me want to never buy them EVER is the way they handled the complaints. Sure now there's some people that have gotten discounts on replacements, but at the time all they were telling people was "It's an install error. We won't replace or give money back. We won't investigate to see if there's a chance that we made some mistakes. So have a nice life and #### off." Those aren't there exact words but you get the drift. I won't do business with a company like that. Granted I don't know if any others have better customer service, but it still keeps me from buying ACT products. If they would have gotten the first couple complaints and told the DSM community "We've noticed a large amount of clutch failures all in the same time period. We're going to investigate the matter and we'll let you know if we sent out bad discs or if we can't find anything wrong."

I'm not trying to start anything with anyone in this thread. I'm just stating that they didn't take the effort to see if they were wrong before blaming others.

 

[FiReBReTHa]

sooo..... they pulled tranny.


(plop)

..... theres the fork.... the TOB in two pieces.... fork retention clip is twisted like a crazy straw...

the TOB messed up the fingers on the pressure plate so need a new one. Flywheel just needs to be surfaced and once that stupid clip comes in they can put her back together.


it is UNDENIABLE. MY 7-Bolt is a gift from GOD!
Seriously!!!!! If It doesnt fall under my hands then it is an excellent piece.
I am not reckless, (missed shifts, hard grinds, bad launches etc) I am Harsh. but I am smooth, obviously if I got 30K on my ACT disk, And it look great! I could have reused it! but I used the OEM disk i got new.


While learning to drive my mother said, "Drive like a Limo driver..."

I retorted. "The autobahn has limo drivers as well"

Just wanted to share my news of good fortune with you all.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

It's been a while since I responded to this thread, so let me add some comments.

Nayr747, Its not that I had one good experience with them, I unlike most people, decided to experiment with ACT's theory. I did research and proven results. And it's not I discount anyones reply when the said "Mine failed and I had the dowel pins." I flat out don't believe them. Because EVERY ACT clutch the failed in the same way mine did were missing the dowel pins. And EVER ACT clutch that did not failed and we had to pull the tranny/motor for any other reason was PERFECTLY ok. An internet jockey can say whatever they want, but I will not believe them unless I was there when we pulled the tranny out and saw if the engine had the dowel pins in or not.

MattO, The rubber inserts was a temporary solution that ACT tried to counter "the hub failure, due to install error" problem. But after testing, proved that the spring design still was stronger, so ACT went back with the full spring setup. I've heard good things about the SBR clutch, but can not back that up with personal experience. Let me know how it works out.

v8s_are_slow, ACT will actually fully replace you part if they found that the failure was due to something else.

IMMORTALSPYDER, You wrong ACT had done their reseach. And I followed up with the same tests and came with the same results. Given I don't have the same resources that ACT does, I still think I did pretty well. I ran the tests on both a 90 FWD and 90 AWD, also I used a stock clutch vs ACT's clutch, and had the pins in and out of both and gave each test group a couple thousand miles before pulling the tranny and checking the clutch. One final note, I reused the clutch or PP if it was possible. Those results are as follows:

Stock clutch kit/ FWD/ Dowel pins (pass)
Stock clutch kit/ AWD/ Dowel pins (pass)
Stock clutch kit/ FWD/ no Dowel pins(pass)
Stock clutch kit/ AWD/ no Dowel pins(pass)

ACT Clutch kit/ FWD/ Dowel Pins (pass)
ACT Clutch kit/ AWD/ Dowel Pins (pass)
ACT Clutch kit/ FWD/ no Dowel Pins (failed)
ACT Clutch kit/ AWD/ no Dowel Pins (failed)

 

[Fattie92]

Well i know how to put clutches in, and have done many. Believe me or not, i really don't care. Everything was right on the install, i don't half ass anything. But with my experience with ACT, i went with the SBR 3500.. and now, 6 months later.. i have the SAME problem! Go check out the thread i started titled SlowBoyRacing clutch problems

Heck just to make sure that my dowel pins were good (not sure how they can go bad besides crack or something), i even bought NEW dowel pins and installed them.

 

[1fast97gsx]

In the past I have always sworn by act clutches and used their 2600s with street disks. I never had problems until they were worn enough to the point of slippage.

About a year ago I bought a new disk and threw it in since my old one was worn to the rivots. About 3000 miles later I felt a pop and the pedal shot back when I was trying to press it down. The car would not shift at all. Once I got it home I pulled the trans and found the disk to have lost it's springs and the hub to be VERY loose. I went to AMS and bought another disk ( nothing else got damaged ) and threw that in. Now only 2000 miles later this one makes a loud squeeling noise and the pedal also vibrates when you push it down. I am confident I lost or am about to loose some more springs. I have done about 6 clutches in this car and ALWAYS made sure the dowel pins were there and tightened everything properly. The last 2 street disks have both failed. I believe act changed their design for the worse about a year or so ago and I will not be using their street disk again.

 

[1fast97gsx]

Now that I look around though I can see what may aid in the early clutch failure problems a lot of us are having. If you go straight to ACT's website and look around it says the torque capacity for a 2600 with a street disk is only 400 ft/lbs. A lot of other websites or distributors give us these ridiculously high numbers such as 495 or even more. The truth of the matter is 400 ft lbs is nothing and is VERY easy to make. Hell the majority of us on here have at least a lil 16g which can easily make 320 w/ ft lbs on a dyno. I'm assuming the 400 act lists is at the flywheel as opposed to the wheels since they aren't going to calculate drivetrain loss for us. If you subtract 20% from 400 for an awd car you'd be subtracting 80 which would leave us with 320 ft lbs at the wheels ... not very hard to do at all.

After seeing this extremely low number these things are truely rated at I will reconsider an ACT clutch and most likely go with a 2600 with a 6 puck since that can hold over 100 more.

You can see the rating on acts website by clicking this link

 

[philly90tsi]

I put my act 2100 clutch on and 25 miles later i blew the rocker arms all over my head. 1st mod i did and never raced the car. I know it couldn't be from the clucth but the timing belt had 15k on it with no problems. Drove the same after clutch install. Who Knows!

 

[v8s_are_slow]

I put my act 2100 clutch on and 25 miles later i blew the rocker arms all over my head. 1st mod i did and never raced the car. I know it couldn't be from the clucth but the timing belt had 15k on it with no problems. Drove the same after clutch install. Who Knows!

thread is,"Did your ACT clutch fail on you? If so, post here." am i missing something? your clutch didn't fail. you had problems with the motor. nothing even closely related.

 

[TimG]

Stock clutch kit/ FWD/ Dowel pins (pass)
Stock clutch kit/ AWD/ Dowel pins (pass)
Stock clutch kit/ FWD/ no Dowel pins(pass)
Stock clutch kit/ AWD/ no Dowel pins(pass)

ACT Clutch kit/ FWD/ Dowel Pins (pass)
ACT Clutch kit/ AWD/ Dowel Pins (pass)
ACT Clutch kit/ FWD/ no Dowel Pins (failed)
ACT Clutch kit/ AWD/ no Dowel Pins (failed)

Unless you did this test with over 10 cars per category, I'm going to have to let you know that this means nothing. The springs pop out. Plain and simple.

Mis-aligned bell housing or not, this should never happen. Think about it, you mis-align the bell housing, how far can you actually mis-align it? 0.01mm possibly.

It still has bolts which are torqued down to specification into the motor (3) or transmission (1). I don't see that bell housing moving around much with those bolts in place, sleeves or not.

Theoretically speaking now, let's say the bell housing is clocked 10 degrees counterclockwise because it was mis-aligned (this is a huge exaggeration). How would THAT cause springs to pop out of an ACT street disk.

Explain the theory behind the clocked bell housing and the popping springs. I'm totally coming from a theoretical mechanical engineering background here. I just need a theory behind it to help me understand.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Well its hard to explain without drawing a picture or something, but I'll do my best.

Ok imagine this picture as what the pins whould look like if you had X-ray vision and you could see through the tranny where the bolts go into the block.
On the left you see the way it should be the the sleeves in. The right shows them missing. Each of the pins are about 2-3mm thick. There are two so you have rim to shift at least that much on each side when both are missing.