Cyclone intake manifold reinstall

[Kalisko]

Hey guys, I've been researching on the difference between a cyclone and a non cyclone 1g intake manifold.

I had one on my JDM 6-bolt motor, but the head bent some valves, so I got a new reman'd head from slowboy. When I went to take my cyclone intake manifold off the old head to put it on the new one, the runners fell apart where they met the head.

I'm in the process of getting a new intake, and found that something had to be calibrated on the intake in order for it to work right. would I still have to do this? I was just going to switch everything over to it and run it exactly how it was before. Thanks

Will

 

[94awdcoupe]

I guess that shows what that support bracket is good for. I have never seen this happen. Your car should run much better with new one. Idle must have sucked.

 

[Kalisko]

I already have the head ready to drop in, and I found an alternate intake manifold. It is a non Cyclone 1g.. It has been Ported to match the gaskets, and polished. It looks in pretty good condition, but can you just switch from a cyclone intake to a non cyclone without any issues?

 

[dsmfa9nutter]

Yes, you can switch between the two with no problems.

 

[Kalisko]

I won't really lose any performance will I? I've been trying to do research on this topic but I can't seem to figure out the big debate on cyclone vs. non =/

I'm stumped WTF

I'll keep searching. Thanks for the input

 

[crimsondragon]

Not much of a difference. If your cyclone manifold was actually controlled and working, you would have good top end and good low end. If it didn't work, it would just have horrible low end. Worst than 1g non cyclone. Of course you also saved fuel with the cyclone supposedly but we won't go there.

 

[94awdcoupe]

The cyclone makes 35-50tq more than regular manifold. In the 3000-5000 range. Even without the actuator working and all runners open the manifold makes more torque.

 

[Kalisko]

Yeah my turbo spooled very fast due to the butterflies I think. I've been researching the cyclone, and what it would take to make another one fit and work the same.

Basically I dont really need to mess with anything if it' has the same setup with the wastegate looking solenoid, and just hook it back up right?

Would a port / polished non-cyclone run alot better than a cyclone?
How much turbo lag would I expect to get extra from the non cyclone?

Thanks for the info guys, I never realized how complex the cyclone intake was ..


Here's some pics of the non-cyclone I'm looking at.

 

[crimsondragon]

I recommend you get DSMLink and an FPR solenoid or an RPM switch to make it work. Stock USDM ECU has no provisions to make it work even if you got a vacuum canister. It's designed to close the butterfly valves below a certain RPM so you make the most low end torque and then open above a certain RPM to provide the highest top end. It's combining the best of 1g and 2g manifolds. The runners on the 2g is smaller and aimed for the best VE. The 1g larger ports is for taking in the most air as possible for more HP. With DSMLink, you can set the RPMs to open once the boost kicks in. You can thereby reduce turbo lag by keeping the valves closed and once you start building boost, the valves can open and you can shove more air into the combustion chamber. I've never heard of the stock cyclone making more the 30 hp/tq than either 1g or 2g. People have had it extensively ported and extrude honed and it made around 30-ish that way. In comparison to a aftermarket SMIM, it holds its own, but the price you pay for it, the porting and honing, and everything else to run it correctly, might as well just get a SMIM.

For more info, read this:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...take-explained-how-install-using-jdm-ecu.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-intake-exhaust/109763-cyclone-intake-manifold-setup.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...ow-properly-actuate-jdm-cyclone-manifold.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...anifold-will-activated.html?highlight=cyclone
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...i-have-simple-question.html?highlight=cyclone
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bol...anifold-porting-ported.html?highlight=cyclone
And the king of all threads:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt-tech/134175-please-help-cyclone.html?highlight=cyclone

 

[toofast82]

I've seen people use a spare wastegate actuator to operate the cyclone intake without any electronics

 

[Kalisko]

wow I really like how Snowbird did his, using the wastegate actuator. How hard is it to do that?

It'd make it a more mechanical than electrical switch.

I like mechanical over electrical any day.

Are there any how to's? or does anyone make them?
Also, would you need a MBC (Mechanical boost controller) to go along with it?

 

[crimsondragon]

No one makes them, so you will have to fabricate which is why I didn't look into it. You will have to somehow bolt it to the manifold and have the arm connected to the valves. After that, just hook up the a boost/vac source. All an MBC does is delay it from opening the spring. You can't force it to activate below the rated spring pressure. Also another disadvantage of uding the WG actuator.

 

[94awdcoupe]

I updated snowbird thread with good info. And I have a manifold here with T25 mod if anyone is looking to try one.

 

[Kalisko]

heck yea i'm looking for one. how much would you want for it?

I'm about to buy either a cyclone on ebay , or a non cyclone ported/polished intake.

what would I need to set it up, just a boost controller?

EDIT: If you could; post me a pic of it.
Also, is it already set up to have to take 14psi to open the butterflies? If so, I dont know if i can use it. My turbo is a 16g but I only have it set at 12-14 right now.
Could you change it to a lower setting?

 

[94awdcoupe]

Yes the manifold is already setup with t25 actuator. It wouldn't work if you are only running 14psi. Thats where it would begin to open. If I modify the arm with a hole closer to fulcrum I could likely get the runners to be open in half the travel. So it would still start to open at 14 psi but would be fully open at ~19psi.

Whats really needed is an actuator that opens earlier than 14psi. A 7 or 8psi actuator would work better. That way if you needed it to open later you could tailer with manual boost controller. The t25 actuator just reconfigures quite well to do the job. Thats why I started using them.

Would need 150 plus shipping for it. It does not have epoxy it it either so it only works on 1g head.

 

[Kalisko]

Oh ok.

Well I've been staring at a few intakes, including that pic of my old one. Tomorrow i'm going to go take a look at it, but I have one question regarding the actuators.

Look at this intake. That actuator looks like it is for the butterflies. Do some come stock like this, to have a boost source to activate the runners? The actuator is on mine, as well as this one, which is currently on Ebay. hmm..if it is, could that be a low psi source? just enough to activate stock boost levels? I wonder.. I'm gonna look at mine in the morning and see if when I apply boost, if it opens the butterfly flap.

Also I'm gonna try to research if some of these intakes came with the boost actuator; stock.

Get back to you in the morning

 

[94awdcoupe]

Oh ok.

Well I've been staring at a few intakes, including that pic of my old one. Tomorrow i'm going to go take a look at it, but I have one question regarding the actuators.

Look at this intake. That actuator looks like it is for the butterflies. Do some come stock like this, to have a boost source to activate the runners? The actuator is on mine, as well as this one, which is currently on Ebay. hmm..if it is, could that be a low psi source? just enough to activate stock boost levels? I wonder.. I'm gonna look at mine in the morning and see if when I apply boost, if it opens the butterfly flap.

Also I'm gonna try to research if some of these intakes came with the boost actuator; stock.

Get back to you in the morning

Thats the stock actuator can that operates with vacuum. If you throw boost at it the diaphragm will blow in short time.

 

[Kalisko]

OK so the cyclone intake I bought like 3 weeks ago finally arrived today.

So in order for it to hook up right, would i just run a vacuum line to it? I'm going to double check in the morning which line it was hooked up to, but I do know the shop that installed the motor put some kind of vacuum line up to it.

 

[srumel]

There's a great article in the Tech Article section that has a diagram of how the system should be set up including the vacuum canister. Your options are to A) operate the butterfly valves with the vacuum actuator that is currently on the manifold which will require either an eprom chip or an rpm switch to control a solenoid in line between the vacuum actuator and canister or B) the wg actuator method which isn't how the manifold was designed to work because the manifold works by switching over at an optimum volumetric efficiency point (rpms) not boost pressure, but doesn't require the vacuum canister. Your choice.

 

[srumel]

Whatever you do, don't hook the butterfly valve actuator up to a line that will see boost pressure as 94awdcoupe said.

 

[Kalisko]

what type of actuator would I need to see around 5-6 PSI for the butterflies to open? I have the new cyclone installed, and I'm going to tie open the butterflies until it's hook up correctly. I think I'm going to go ahead and do this mod, just a smaller actuator beings I'm running 16 psi tops on my 16g

Updated pics!
It's dropped in, but I forgot to take a pic of it. I'm still trying to fasten the goofy exhaust manifold to the turbo housing. More to come tonight

 

[Kalisko]

I think I found the one I'm going to use,

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Universal-Turbo-Internal-Wastegate-Actuator-RB20-Honda_W0QQitemZ330328299859QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item4ce919d953&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A1171|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

Even adjustable.

 

[LandoAWD]

Got a report on the "you need Link" response, and it was well warranted. As noted above, a "JayDeeEm" ECU with provisions can make this work, as well as the homebrew method(s) noted.

Just a clarification as folks were doing this pre-Link.

 

[bling5tatus]

You need DSMLink and an FPR solenoid or an RPM switch to make it work.[/url]

False. Any eprom ecu can actuate this. DSMs haul ass every day w/o using dsmlink.

 

[Bud92gsx]

So how about using a 13g or 9g wastgate to controll when the butterfly opens instead of using the t25 9psi wastegate?Withough using link or jdm ecu..I know Brian wats this manifold, but the mor I read about this swap, the more I just want to put it on my car..