Couple quick timing belt questions

[GooeyGus]

Hi guys, I had a couple quick questions about doing a TB job.

I've read through all the VFAQ's and a bunch of other posts. But, what I'm looking to find out, how much of a pain in the ass is doing the timing belt on a 1ga with the motor in the car? Is it something that can be easily done in a weekend? This will be my first time doing a t-belt job, although my brother has done a few on his old 2.3 4g63 so I can ask him for help if I have to, but I'd rather get it done by myself.

Second question:

Is most of the work done from above the engine bay or beneath the car? Obviously I know I'll have to get under the car a few times, but it looks like a lot of it can be done from above. Is this assumption accurate or will most of my work be under the car?

Third question:

When I bought the car, I was told the timing belt had 10K miles on it. I've put another 5k on the car (5,000 miles in 5 years... yeah: it has broken down a few times). I never saw receipts from the timing belt work since the guy I bought it from only owned it a month. He was forced to sell the car due to relocation for work. I'm guessing at one point the t-belt broke and bent some valves. The head looks spotless inside, so I know it was replaced recently but I have no proof as far as actual mileage.

So, I pulled the upper cover for the first time to check out the belt and it looks fine. No oil, no wear lines, no fraying.

My question is (and its kind of a weird one): How long does it take the 'lettering' (branding, etc) to wear off the outside of the belt? Mine is faded but still legible, which leads me to believe the belt is pretty new.

The reason why I am contemplating a timing belt job is because the belt is a goodyear gatorback. I've heard mixed things about these belts, but my mind just wont be able to rest comfortably until I have an OEM or better (gates, greddy, etc etc) belt on there.

So, to sum it all up quickly:

1. How long will it take a first timer
2. Will I be mostly under the car or above the engine bay
3.Any estimate on how long it takes for the lettering on the outside of a t-belt to fade/disappear?

Thanks!
Jason

 

[falcon8r]

Ok here goes..

#1 Give yourself all day. Just getting the T-belt cover out the first time will be fun( out the bottom) . It could take you more if you have ten(10) thumbs.

#2 You absulutely will be under the car. If you can do it all from the top.... well you can't. You will need to strip all the stuff off the drivers side fenderwell.

3# It could last forever if it was seldom used. If the belt was done when you were told , you probably don't need to touch it. Being the case that you don't , the blue Gates belt can be had for $120 or so so look around. All of the aftermarket belts that are not black are the gates belt dockter'd up. Take time to check the bearings in all the driven pullys. The balance shaft is a good task if you are up to it at that time. Tres....

 

[ilco187]

1 - you will be under and over, ALOT checking and re-checking
2 - a first timer would maybe take all day, if maybe a day and a half, depending on the person and what tools are avail,
3 - i have a gatorback and its held 4 years abuse, my last was a oem and it lasted 6 months

4 - replace the balance shaft belt, that is a MUST so it dont break and ruin the engine.

i might have left some out but thats what i can say for now

 

[rlacasse1]

you will be on top of the car, under the car, in the car, around the car, bleeding knuckles, pissed off, ready to break shit, and losing your mind.

at least thats how it was for me. and 90% of that^^^. was on the timing belt cover alone. haha.

 

[river]

If your brother is available, have him around to offer pointers...but do all the work yourself. He really only has to be around for the period you are replacing the belt and setting tension...so get it torn down to that point and then call him over. I can do my timing belt in 2 hours, but I've also done them numerous times and don't have near the BS in my way. One motor mount, harmonic balancer, and the pulley for the alternator and I can take my timing cover off (only using 8 bolts in it). Expect it to take you at least a full 12 hour day if you've never done it before, maybe more if you have to hunt for tools.

You'll spend a lot of time on both the top side and the bottom side of the car. You'll spend a lot of time pulling pulleys and belts off and learning technique on how to get certain bolts out of the timing cover. You will go back and forth from top to bottom while adjusting timing,...it's a lot of up and down and bottom and top.

Just because the head is clean does not mean it was replaced recently. It may mean it was hot tanked.

Get a new timing belt even if yours looks fine. Get a new OEM, gates, or kevlar. But remember, timing belt failure is normally not a "faulty" belt...it's impropper installation that breaks them, then people blame a crappy timing belt when it's normally just impropper installation.

I'm running a Goodyear Gatorback right now as my OEM dealer was out at the time I needed mine, it's lasted fine and the yellow writing on it took less than a month to wear off.

 

[95Eclipse]

When you are setting the timing, make sure the oil pump proket is timed properly as it can spin 3 times before it can be timed correctly ohterwise your engine will be vibrating very bad.
To set it correctly spin it by hand and note the weight and turn it untill you feel the weight being down(relaxed) and the timing marks be very close to alining with each other. This should happen every three times you spin it.

 

[DSM1G90]

When I got my Laser, I immediately got the entire kit from my local Mitsu dealership since the belt was definitely going bad.

As noted above, I didn't rush and thus had all day to do the belt and yes, there's a lot of underneath work since you got to align three sprockets up to the mark and to see if the marks stay when the belt tensioner was engaged...and I had to fuss, cuss, sweat many times until every mark were all dead on where they should be and adjuster properly aligned - no short cuts or cheating allowed.. IT HAS TO BE PERFECT ! This is one belt job that you just can't guess, take for granted or anything, otherwise, you're gonna smak valves due to the interferece properties these motors have.

After 18k miles later, marks still are dead on and the lettering on the stock Mitsu belt is almost worn off. But, the thing starts right up, idles very smooth and boogies down the freeway as it should be for a turbo.

To set it correctly spin it by hand and note the weight and turn it untill you feel the weight being down(relaxed) and the timing marks be very close to alining with each other. This should happen every three times you spin it.

There's a lot easier way in doing this: roll the sprocket til the pointer is at the top then release it. If the sprocket rolls clockwise, it's 180* out of phase with the crank. Roll it one turn again and this time it should roll anti-clockwise when you release it. If so, then it's in phase with the crank and ready for the belt.
-DSM

 

[river]

Roll it one turn again and this time it should roll anti-clockwise when you release it. If so, then it's in phase with the crank and ready for the belt.
-DSM

Anti-clockwise?

Counter-clockwise?

DSM1G90 is right though with the procedure for finding whether or not the oil pump is in correct phase.

I always pull the bolt on the back of the block and insert a screwdriver. It's easy to get to the bolt for me though with the A/C deleted and the intake mani brace gone.

 

[GooeyGus]

Is that intake mani brace necessary? I am going to replace my knock sensor this weekend and I was thinking of buying a gasket for the intake mani and changing it. It will make the knock sensor job way easier, and I wanted to remove that bracket while I was in there.

 

[DSM1G90]

I've done a Knock sensor changeout with just using a Crescent wrench and just using a good reach under the manifold from the passenger side...

(yea, "anti-clockwise" ... something I picked up from my English friends ... Yea, "counter-clockwise" be the correct term...)

-DSM

 

[Oldsid]

If you are going to change your timing belt, do a complete overhaull of the timing system. If your car has a high mileage, change the tensionner, the pulleys and the water pump; it will save you a lot of hassle later.
I just did all the overhaull for the first time and it took me about a day and half. since you have a 1G you need to fabricate (or buy) the tools needed to remove and install the tensionner and the crackshaft pulley. That was the hardesd part and it it took me alot of small adjustement and grinding to make them work. Needless to say that I had no help and the day and half does not include the tools fabrication. I also used only OEM part for everything.

 

[GooeyGus]

My plan was to redo everything. how can I tell if the crank 'cog' needs to be changed? That was the one thing I didn't want to bother with. I was going to buy the little tool for the tensioner pully, and I already have the tool to release pressure on the tensioner itself.

Also about the knock sensor. I tried to get my arm on it from the passenger side and I couldn't. It was much easier to get to from the driver side. I just reached my hand in there and I could grab it easily. Is there some reason I wouldn't be able to get a wrench on it from the drivers side?

 

[river]

Is that intake mani brace necessary? I am going to replace my knock sensor this weekend and I was thinking of buying a gasket for the intake mani and changing it. It will make the knock sensor job way easier, and I wanted to remove that bracket while I was in there.

I don't see the manifold brace as neccesary. I've removed them on many cars. The intake mani weighs about 8-10 lbs. It's not much at all whatever it is. If you can remove it, I say remove it.

Remove the knock sensor from whatever side you can. Just make sure to torque the new one back in to spec.

 

[ilco187]

i have removed the brace as well, i think the only purpose of it is to keep the intake in place as you were to pull the engine from the original lifting points, so the stress dont break it off, but idk thats just how i see it.

 

[Oldsid]

The brace should not be removed or your intake may crack in the long run. I think we all agree that reliability is important especially for a DD. The brace reduces the dynamic loads on the manifold that can happen when the car is running (hard accleration, braking, bumpy roads..etc).
There is probably less failures of the intake manifold because it is not as heavy and is not hot. However, I do hear of a lot more failures on the exhaust manifold for exactly the same reasons; overhang weight subject to dynamic loads from a heavy turbo-manifold systems that ends up cracking the exhaust manifold because the DP clamp was thrown away.
The brace on the intake or the clamp on the DP are there to protect the manifolds and insure a reliable system for long time. Don't discard them because they make working on the car a little bit harder.

 

[DSM1G90]

If one really needs to get to the knock sensor through the brace, is to roll the front end on some ramps and you can then reach up directly underneath - might have to reach a bit though...

Ya, leave that brace on - you don't know how much vibration goes on along with that weight just hanging there that could break off due to being all aluminum...

-DSM

 

[river]

The brace should not be removed or your intake may crack in the long run. I think we all agree that reliability is important especially for a DD. The brace reduces the dynamic loads on the manifold that can happen when the car is running (hard accleration, braking, bumpy roads..etc).
There is probably less failures of the intake manifold because it is not as heavy and is not hot. However, I do hear of a lot more failures on the exhaust manifold for exactly the same reasons; overhang weight subject to dynamic loads from a heavy turbo-manifold systems that ends up cracking the exhaust manifold because the DP clamp was thrown away.
The brace on the intake or the clamp on the DP are there to protect the manifolds and insure a reliable system for long time. Don't discard them because they make working on the car a little bit harder.

The only way you're gonna crack the intake manifold is if you try to lift the motor out of the car with the lifting point that is on the intake manifold and you don't have the brace on the underside of the intake manifold going to the block. Both the upper and lower "braces" on the intake manifold are useless unless you are pulling the motor out of the car. Having the lower brace may reduce a bit of stress from the intake mani studs, but for the most part...it's pointless and just in the way. I'll try to find a thread to confirm what I just said.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...e-body-cas-bracket-intake-manifold-brace.html

If one really needs to get to the knock sensor through the brace, is to roll the front end on some ramps and you can then reach up directly underneath - might have to reach a bit though...

Ya, leave that brace on - you don't know how much vibration goes on along with that weight just hanging there that could break off due to being all aluminum...

-DSM

Your head is aluminum. Do you worry about it blowing to pieces?

That brace is a joke unless you're pulling the motor and need it there for support.

If you are emissions deleted and don't need the brace for the vaccuum line connections, I'd pull it out. Having it gone makes for much easier head swaps.

If you bolt on a magnus or JMF you delete the brace.