COP Coil-on-Plug ignition [Merged 1-8]

[94surpatalon]

I think it has 5 wire and 4 wires for 91 to 94 cars. Dont hold me to that I just know 90 cars have a tach box on the coil pack unlike the 91-94 cars.

Thanks
TJ

 

[gottalovenewage]

well i know its a waste spark system, so it cant be too hard, do you have a voltometer or test light?

 

[gottalovenewage]

Pass voltage through one pin at a time on the coilpack. as your passing voltage through it find out what cylinder(s) would be firing at that time, write down that color wire for that cylinder(s). There should be 2 Hot, 2 Return, and 1 for the Tach, if it is a 5 wire setup. Dont quote me on that though, mines a 3 wire, but it should be the same concept. Anyhow, when you figure out what wires go where, you should be able to use that knowledge to build your new setup. Let me know if i confoosed you.

 

[Staytuned]

Anybody on here running a COP setup without an MSD-2 or AEM CDI? Did you have mis-fire problems? or have to gap you plugs down to .26 to stop mis-fire?

I just recently installed mine and I am not using any CDI system as of yet, but in order to keep from mis-firing I have had to gap my plugs down to .26. Is this common for most people with this setup?

 

[94awdcoupe]

My friends are running the switzer COP setup without the use of an aftermarket ignition system and it seems to run fine. They gap the plugs at .26 as well.

 

[CanadianTSi]

Would the need for a smaller gap indicate that the spark is actually weaker then the stock setup?

 

[ericbev]

It seems to be a dwell or power transistor issue from what everyone is saying. These misfires aerent a common occourence.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199624&highlight=coil+on+plug
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97714&highlight=coil+on+plug



Also here is Hals big how-to thread just for good measure.


http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17954&page=2&highlight=buschur+COP

 

[Staytuned]

Well for now I have taken it off untill I can get a CDI....it makes no sense running this setup and having to reduce the gap to stop it from mis-firing. .26 is not too small really but if I can run .28 on the stock coils it's a no brainer really.

Thanks for the links Eric.

 

[spaceball]

a cop coil is designed for use with an ignition system witch can use up to 540 degrees of crankshaft rotation for dwell time and must only cross one gap. a waste spark coil is designed for use with an ignition which can use only 180 degrees for dwell and must jump two gaps (although the cylinder which is on the exhust stroke has a much lower resistance across the gap than the cylinder on compression it does add cosiderable resistance to the secondary). so if you wire cop coils into a waste spark system you are running coils on 1/3 of the dwell time they were designed to operate on. if you are hell bent on cop's then i suggest waste spark cop with coils on two plugs only and short secondary wires to their companion cylinders plugs. ive never scoped a dsm. this is just my theory based on other cars i have scoped.

 

[AL92]

Not sure what this guys theory means in above post but it seems several fast dsms are working fine with cop..and doubt the smaller gap hurts anything. I woud say though that the aem or msd are a good addition it looks like.
I installed cop on another guys car and it ran great..no misfire at the .028 gaps at up to 20psi on his 14b. No msd or aem ignition amplifier.

I intend to likely get COP in my car but would get an amplifier.

 

[Golden Wind]

The first thing I need to tell you is I have a 90 eclipse and I converted the power transistor to a 94. I recently bought a coil on plug setup and was wondering if it is possible to pull the tach signal from the power transistor and wire it up to my coil pack harness. If so, I'm unsure of which wire the tach signal is sent through.

Second thing I'm wondering is where some of you have mounted the intake air temperature sensor for the AEM.

Any help is appreciated and thanks in advance.

 

[steve]

You can try feeding the '90 tach and ECU from the signal from the power transistor module but you might have to put the '90 tach gate and noise filter back in.

http://www.dsmchips.com/1990ecu.html

Shows the conversion and the two new wires, power for the module and the tach signal.

Steve

 

[Golden Wind]

Thanks for the help. That harness is actually the same thing I did, I just left out the tach signal bcause I didn't know what to do with it.

 

[steve]

Let us know how the tach behaves when you feed it and the ECU from the 91+ PTM.

Steve

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Alrighty, well every set of plug wires I buy tends to be cheap. They either arc electricity thru them and I lose spark or the ends break off and it's pissing me off. Magnecore, MSD, etc. Today the end of my MSD wire broke off in the coil

I've been doing a lot of reading on the COP setup but seeing some people having problems if they have coils from a 300M or coils without an ignition box like an MSD etc. Question I have is, Is anyone getting these things to run WITHOUT having to have some sort of ignition box and not getting backfiring, or other issues? If so, could you please list what parts you used and maybe a wiring diagram, etc. I saw a few diagrams as I was searching but they were kinda confusing and I don't care to short anything out.

If there isn't anyone having any luck with these without an aftermarket ignition, what exactly would the best wires be that ya'll know of cause I'm apparently not having any luck with whatever I choose. Thanks!

Scott

 

[GVR4592]

As stupid as it sounds I use the cheap parts store spark plug wires and I've never had a problem. I used the expensive NAPA wires on my civic and they broke after 2 days, so I wouldn't reccomend those. I've had the same wires for about 2 years now on my Galant. I remove them at least once a week to check my plugs and I've never had one break.

As for COP I don't think there is any real consistency to what works better. I've heard from people that had the exact same kits and they had completely different results. I think a CDI box is a must though if you are going to use COP.

 

[staticbrainwash]

Honestly, my accel thundersports have been FREEKIN AWESOME. I even got a set to put on my jeep cherokee.

For COP though. . . i dunno. It's a little too iffy for me. Unless i was buying a pre-fab set made up specifically for the 4g63 i don't think i'd bother. It's not going to make THAT much difference over plug wires to notice. Just less hastle (if you can get it working period).

 

[v8s_are_slow]

Well, I can definately feel the power loss when the wires arc out. Recently it'd feel like it was missing and then clear up and I'd have all my power back. So I wanna get something that's not gonna arc out and also not fall to pieces. I have a good amount of mods on my car and it needs the spark.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Myself and 3 other people I know have been running the Buschur COP awhile with no big issues or broken parts. Myself and 1 person are running on otherwise stock ignition, 1 person is using an AEM CDI and 1 is using an MSD DIS.

I'm not impressed with how the car runs, at best its no better than before. For about 2 months after I installed it I had a misfire at fairly steady intervals while crusing on the highway for long periods of time. This has gone away and (knock on wood) has not returned.

So my only remaining complains is that I will probably never get the coils off the plugs again without breaking something. And for $300 the boots were not even cut to the correct length. I was very unimpressed with the quality. In order to avoid removal problems (which it obviously didn't) and to not have to cut anything to a precise length, Buschur used little springs inside the boots that just rest on the TOP of the plugs. I think this is complete BS on a $300 system. This gives very little electrical contact area between the coil and the plug. I want correctly fitted snap on terminals like normal plug wires have.

The conclusion. After installing my $300 COP setup my car still runs... And that's all I can say.
If it wasn't for the "wow" factor when I pop the hood (and the fact that its stuck on the plugs), I would have returned it and just kept buying garbage leaky plug wires every 6 months. When its time for a spark plug change I plan on ripping it off, then using a pair of pliers to remove the broken off boots from the plugs, then I'm going to throw it in the middle of my driveway and light it all on fire.

 

[UofACATS]

Enthusiastically noted.

 

[staticbrainwash]

HAHAHAHAHA! That was a brilliant post!

 

[AL92]

Ok got COP off ebay. Nice laser cut plate,New coils.
I put it on the car. Their are three wires..ground and the two triggers.Connected it one way and thought car didn't sound quite right so tried it other way. Car idled good and sounded good didn't make any misfire noise at idle like plug not in the coil wire/thing.
You can see the coil wires into the plugs directly as the plate is in the way.

But anyway start driving the car and its popping and misfiring all over the place.Put it into boost and it acts like a huge boost leak.In fact thought it was a big huge boost leak,its not building boost and its bucking and just sounding like crap.

Ok we took out the plugs and gapped them down as heard you need to run .026 for COP.We put them at .025 just to be safe. They were about .028. Go for another drive pretty much same deal. Car is popping and sounding crappy even off boost and on boost its like big boost leak.

We got home throw on the original coil and ngk wires ,left the gap at .025 .we of course had to take off those nipple things on the plugs as they don't fit the coil on plug connectors.

So what is the deal.The ebay seller with very high feedback says the COP will work fine without a spark box like crane,msd 2 whatever. He says very fast cars have gone very fast with them without any boxes.

Could have the trigger wires wrong make it run this bad I thought it wouldn't even start with the order wrong and would it idle ok but yet misfire pop or act like huge boost leak with the trigger wires backwards?

Also has anyone with a bit turbo like mine run a cop without a box and at what gaps and what boost levels .
I was easily hitting 13 to 15psi where my gate is set with stock igniton and around .028 gaps.

So whats the deal. I am pretty sure all the coils are working right the engine sounds smooth the way we have the trigger wires. Can you have a trigger wire mixed up with a ground wire would that even run?

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Mine did the same thing. Try running a ground wire directly off the battery to the COP plate. This fixed my crap running problems. Still don't like the COP, but at least the car runs now.

 

[AL92]

I got a COP and me and buddy installed it. You have to guess at trigger wire we hooked it up one way thought that didn't sound that great so hooked it up the other way.

It started and seemed to run ok but it was sounding weird as actually drove it. exhaust was popping car backfired when floored it and the couldn't get much more than six psi without massive break up. We regapped but it ran the same. We gapped them to .025.

We then threw on the stock ignition coilpack and ngk and left gap at .025.It is running like raped ape again.
So what is the deal here? So I do need an amplifier? I do need to run lower than .025?

Or can the triggers be backwards and make it run crappy like this and it was misfiring not even under boost throught out the entire range or doing something like misfire.It didn't sound lke any wires were off at cop end,Idle was ok.

I don't think you can wire a ground and trigger up and have it run at all can you?

This was brand new COP off ebay with brand new coils.I still am not throwing any check engine codes for misfire but man my car was running badly.

We will try reversing the wiring on the COP triggers tommorrow.If that don't work then guess might also have to shelf it until get a ignition box,leaning to the crane one.

Msd break a lot nowadays I hear.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Mine have been gapped at .030 for 6 months with no issues. The whole point is to have a more poweful ignition, if you need to reduce to a miniature gap because its so weak, then get rid of it.