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2G Cooling System Setup

Posted by wing3r09, Feb 10, 2019

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  1. wing3r09

    wing3r09 Proven Member

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    Hey everyone,

    Had cooling problems last time on the dyno. My tuner could only get a full pulls before overheating. I have the car torn apart and have been thinking about overhauling the cooling system and want to get your thoughts.

    Let me start by saying I'm not looking for answers of why I was overheating. I replaced the Cometic MLS with a a OEM composite due to the head being decked and the block not. I am asking for opinions on the cooling system overhaul.

    Car Purpose: Street and would like to get into some Hill Climb or auto X at some point.

    For the radiator I am looking into a Sheepy Built 1/2 Radiator for the EVO. 2 Row 31mm core -16 AN fittings and comes with a 12" Spall fan and shroud. Reason for the half size is to make room for bigger turbo and the thought of reducing heat soak from manifold and turbo. As of now, I am running HX35 and ERL T3 manifold (tight fit). Future plans involve a forward facing turbo. Also ducting from FMIC to radiator.

    For the water pump, I like the thought of switching to electric. I came across Davies Craig and really like one of their kits. The EWP150 comes with pump controller and and everything needed for install. The controller allows control of the pump and fan. Also comes threaded for -16 AN fittings. This will allow the deletion of the thermostat as well.

    I recently came across the vortex capsule / swirl pot from eaton motor works. Since changing just about everything else, throwing one of this in wouldn't be a bad idea.

    Switching hoses to SS -16AN. AC, heater core, FIAV already deleted.

    As always, your thoughts, comments and concerns are appreciated!
     

    Street Build 1K  4

    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  2. motomattx

    motomattx Proven Member

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    The more power you put out, the more heat you need to dissipate, keep that in mind because big turbo with smaller radiator really doesnt play well, for a drag car that makes one pass and then cools down yes, for a street car though, you would want a street sized radiator.
     

    Drag Race Build 2K  13

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  3. rEclipserGST

    rEclipserGST Proven Member

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    Columbus, Ohio
    Bigger turbo. Hill climb. AutoX. Half size radiator..... That ain't it. Not even close.

    Hood Vents. Solid fans with high CFM. Fan shroud. Full size radiator. 50/50 coolant mix.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019

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    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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  4. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

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    If you want a huge turbo then you likely wont do well in AutoX anyway,

    A half size rad wont work well as our cars are not designed for it. Hondas struggle in time attack with half sized rads and most of the time have to go full size for heat control,

    The EWP is a good idea as i have this setup in the garage but your 16AN is too small. I will restrict flow and cooling power so you need to run 20AN min sized fittings, when going this size expect to spend a few hundread on fittings and lines alone! So to keep it cost effective i say keep to slip on hoses unles you dont mind the added cost
     

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    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
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  5. 2gmitsueclipse

    2gmitsueclipse DSM Wiseman

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    If you can make the space, I would recommend a Sirocco style radiator setup. Spend the money to get a good core (AFCO) It will provide more space in the engine bay as it is small enough to fit within the front portion of the frame with little modification. You would for sure lose A/C and the stock hood latch. The other important factor would be sealing the area between the FMIC and radiator to ensure air flows where it should. You will also need to decide whether space permits a push/pull style fan setup. Get the largest CFM fan you can (SPAL, Etc.). I am using this setup currently in my 4g63t swapped Colt. More info can be found here to get an idea of how this setup works:
    https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/r...-7-9-half-scirocco-afco-smaller.240402/page-5

    If you would like some advice about your purpose, I would HIGHLY suggest look into both hill climb and AutoX rules in your area and make your modification choices based on the classing requirements. It will save a lot of time and money when you have a specific direction/goal in mind.
     

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  6. wing3r09

    wing3r09 Proven Member

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    I appreciate the feed back! Scratching the 1/2 rad idea and going with -20 Lines. Sorry for sounding ignorant with the big turbo/ 1/2 rad talk for autocross. Maybe those goals should be for another car another time. This car will be street driven on the weekends.

    @ec17pse I would be interested in seeing some pictures of your EWP set up.

    @2gmitsueclipse I took a look at that tread and the AFCO radiator. WOW! I am going to stick with my Mitsumoto for now, but when the time comes and more room is needed I will likely be going that route.

    Has anyone had any experience with the Eaton Motor Works vortex capsule? I have been meaning to call over and get some more info and start designing one for my vehicle.
     

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  7. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

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  8. Airsign89

    Airsign89 Proven Member

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    troy, Michigan
    I think @greengoblin might be using one of those Eaton swirl pots with an EWP. I’m not sure if he’s tested it yet though. Might wanna pm him.
     

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    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
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  9. renovatdkitchen

    renovatdkitchen Proven Member

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    I used to street drive my drag car with the Davies Craig water pump with the revised controller.

    I even drove it to Ohio with it. I recommend keeping in the thermostat because I removed mine and it ran way too cold. It only got up to 205*f once, and that was sitting in a standstill highway for over 30 min in direct sun on a hot day, and even then, I found out later that my overflow wasn't working properly leaving an air pocket in my cooling system afterwards. I also had a ETS 5" FMIC and a top mount turbo working against it.

    I cant comment on the long term reliability as I have only driven with it for about 24 combined hours. The Davies Craig pump along with the Afco Sirocco style rad was very effective for me.

    I used -16an lines.
     

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  10. wing3r09

    wing3r09 Proven Member

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    Doesn't the EWP act as the thermostat? It wouldn't turn on until temps reach your set temp?
     

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  11. llxkevinxll

    llxkevinxll Proven Member

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    I don't think that is the way to go. You'd still want coolant circulating in the block and head otherwise you'd get localized hot spots and possibly cause damage. Reading a temp outside of the block will be lagging behind the actual temp of coolant sitting next to the cylinder walls for example. In my opinion you want the fluid flowing while the engine is on, just bypassing the radiator until your set temp. Just like factory.
     

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  12. renovatdkitchen

    renovatdkitchen Proven Member

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    @wing3r09 It does, but its not enough as the EWP flows too much even at the lowest setting.
     

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  13. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

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    Shocked no one knows how the ewp works even though they tell you on their site,

    The way the ewp works without a thermostat is it does short burts while its warming up, this stops the block and cylinder head getting hot spots. So it cycles coolant around but once it gets upto temp then it kicks in for longer or setup times.
    This is why the ewp works so well and also works at a higer revs per cycle as it dont airate the water like the oem pump/s do.

    The ultimas that get rebuilt down the road all go to these and they daily drive and race them and for years they have never let one down, just set it up correctly and it will outperform and be as simple as you want it, if you feel different you can swap it and reverse flow aswel, popular mod in the V8 world so i am told
     

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  14. greengoblin

    greengoblin Supporting Vendor

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    I plan on testing and adding restriction plates in the lines if needed. Also an in-line tsat is an easy solution Also.
     

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  15. renovatdkitchen

    renovatdkitchen Proven Member

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    Yea, I can read their instructions. But sometimes the world isn't black and white. Running without a t-stat with:
    Top mount s375 w/turbo blanket
    ETS 5" FMIC
    AFCO Sirocco style rad w/ -16an line
    Davies Craig EWP 115 w/LCD controller
    12" FAL fan
    No ducting
    and these were my temps after over 6 hours of driving on the highway but I had no choice as I couldnt miss the shootout :p.
    Capture.JPG
     

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  16. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

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    Then the issue for you was setup or sensor location, the pump itself is the restriction and as DC tell you on their website it pulses when coolant is getting warm then goes into loop mode. Any settings can be altered strsight away so its possible to mess it up and over pump/cool.

    When i asked a tonne of questions before i bought mine i was told repeatedly dont mess too much sith the settings, alot of the ultima guys displays get hidden as they mess with it and cause over cooling or fan issues.

    The sensor in the wrong location will also cauee issues and DC likes it in or near the rad but in the oem location will be fine, its critical the sensor because thats what tells it to pulse while warming up so it has to be right,
     

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  17. renovatdkitchen

    renovatdkitchen Proven Member

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    Both sensors were in the same stock location. Again, I ALSO read instructions and know how it operates. Im posting my results WITH a log to prove what my experience.
     

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  18. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

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    No i appriciate that and the log. Just find it weird you was too cold,

    If it dont cycle it gets too hot. If it over cycles it gets too cold, if you was not over cycling then something was happening that you didnt find, the 16AN lines in itself are also a restriction, that will raise pressure and also temps so im failing to see how you ran cold LOL did you ever find out why?
     

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    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
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  19. renovatdkitchen

    renovatdkitchen Proven Member

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    Honestly I had no idea why it did, LOL. I even tried to target a hotter coolant temp. It would just do its pulse and at idle or cruise it would run cold. The stock coolant temp sensor worked before I did the swap, I even tried running the Davies Craig sensor in the rad but it did the exact same thing.

    Honestly after that summer the car went into storage and I haven't had a time to figure it out. But I was going to try running a thermostat next time I ran it.
     

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  20. TehRiceBandit

    TehRiceBandit Proven Member

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    Do you have an oil cooler yet?
     

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  21. wing3r09

    wing3r09 Proven Member

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    Yes, I did an EVO 9 OFH swap and installed a oil cooler during.
     

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