comparison between four piston floating calipers and stock 2 piston dsm calipers

[bmoha2]

I saw another post on here for a guy that converted to Brembo EVO9 full floating brakes. I was looking for more info as to why it would be done. Pros and cons? They look much bigger than the stock 2G calipers. Huge in fact! I would see that as increased weight but if the performance outweighs the added weight then I could see doing it. I was talking to a certified mechanic friend of mine, asking the difference. He said that full floating brake calipers have very little drag on the rotor and that the brakes at the pedal feel much better. No drag, cleaner crisper pedal feel. As far as being able to actually stop better he didn't see it. He thought that a four piston full floating caliper vs a two piston stock DSM with identical sized brake pads would stop the same... Is that right? I'm looking for some feedback from owners/users of full floating four piston setups. <-- personal experience and experienced opinions. I am really wanting to race the Talon this year and even with all the brake upgrades I have done I have never really cared for the feel/performance of the stock calipers. I have Brembo slotted rotors in the front, Powerstop crossdrilled rotors in the rear, SS brake lines on all four corners, Dot4 brake fluid and EBC Kevlar brake pads on all four corners. The car stops very well but I'm not sure it would hold up if I did a track day at Blackhawk etc. I have noticed some nasty brake fade after a few heavy stops. To be honest I am no longer liking the EBC brake pads. I am not interested in the EVO8/9 brakes calipers. If I did an upgrade it would be to Maybe a Baer street/track setup. Four piston full floating calipers with cnc'd aluminum construction. I have also heard great things about brake systems. All these setups cost a ton! But if I can justify the cost in my head I'm going to do it.

 

[asian312]

Haven't gotten to test the Brembos under track conditions, but the reason I changed up was that the stock 2 piston w/ Porterfield R4-E weren't keeping up as the lap times started to drop. It has more to do with the rotor acting as a heat sink and not able to draw enough out. Thus after a really hard 20min session, I could tell my fluid get heated (Motul 600). The pads kept on going and going, but it felt like you could fry an egg in my wheel well after a good thrashing.

The larger 4 piston setups utilize larger rotors which in turn allow for the brakes to be a more effective heat sink. Also moving the pads further out allows more torque to be applied on the rotating parts when stopping. Another nice side affect from using the EVO 8&9 brake conversion is that you also get all the nifty parts created for them such as brake duct systems.

Hot Lap Motorsports Brake Duct Kit Installation - evolutionm.net

 

[bmoha2]

I'm looking forward to you following up with this after you have run some track time.

 

[asian312]

I'll be sure to give a in depth report. Just waiting on a certain suspension guru to break away from his busy schedule to piece together a setup for me.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

I love the phrase " my certified mechanic friend" hahahahahaha I have messes brought to my shop by people who used their "certified mechanic friend" more than anything else.

The DSM brakes are floating rotors. Even hub pressed rotors like on a Honda don't have "drag" or anything on them. Floating rotor simply means the rotor is help down with the wheel via the lugs/studs not pressed or screwed on like some other applications.

If you want the real answer to the differences then here they are....
1. The EVO brake calipers feature a full aluminum body design. They are very light weight for their size and have a fantastic stopping power. They are extremely easy to service and as an added perk look amazing.

2. The EVO brake setup has a MUCH MUCH larger brake surface area. That's where your biggest braking power increase comes from.

3. The stock DSM, like most other cars used a sliding caliper. What that means is that the compression pistons are on on side and as they pressurize the front solid metal bracket slides towards the rotor creating stopping friction. The EVO calipers, like all 4+ pot calipers create equal (should be) pressure from both sides offerin a more fluid friction.

It's a great upgrade, one that I intend on doing myself once I actually look for some of the JDM knuckles.

Hope the info helped. Print it out so you can educate your "certified mechanic friend"

 

[bmoha2]

I can see where my next set of big upgrades is going to go. Just a note that my certified mechanic friend has never and will never work on my Talon. the reason being is that he is very very well schooled in stock vehicles and anything that is modified is wrong. He has also never worked on any forced induction system. When I told him my intake manifold was being pressurized to 17plus psi he told me "something was seriously wrong with my motor." "an intake manifold should never have anything but a negative vacuum" he said. So I take what he says with a grain of salt. We are still having this huge debate over the purpose and necessity of the whole EGR system. He thinks it's the best thing that was ever designed and great for gas mileage and emissions. He has a very hard time thinking outside the box.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

asian: we run setups like that on our two EVO IX SCCA cars. They are made by AMS Performance and work AMAZING. You can actually make them for just about anything. Not all that involved really.

 

[asian312]

I've thought about trying to fabricate something myself, but it just boils down to my bag of talents is pretty empty in the fabrication area and this being my 3rd DSM, I'm much more of that 'Gimme something' that works approach.

If you guys are able to throw something together, give me a shout. I certainly prefer to support sponsors of our community.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

I've thought about trying to fabricate something myself, but it just boils down to my bag of talents is pretty empty in the fabrication area and this being my 3rd DSM, I'm much more of that 'Gimme something' that works approach.

If you guys are able to throw something together, give me a shout. I certainly prefer to support sponsors of our community.

The JDM knuckles is the only thing. Brackets can not be made because of where the hole placements are, at least on a 2g.

And to be honest? Lets say you spend 500 dollars on an evo front setup, plus the 4-500 on knuckles. Thats 1000 dollars. When you can get a TCE setup for that much and have 2-piece rotors, a lighter caliper (trust me I had both setups in my hand before I decided which one to use) and even has an easier way of swapping pads. (No pins and a bracket, the wilwood caliper has one bridge bolt that you undo real quickly and pull pads). Then when it comes to pads , the pads are much cheaper than evo caliper pads. This is all in my opinion.

 

[bmoha2]

Can you post a pic of your front brake setup? How much room do you have around the calipers? Did you have to use any spacers etc?

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

DJ,

I love the setup you have on your car. The reason I would recommend the EVO conversion for the everyday guy is because of ease of availability of parts. EVO pads, rotors and such can be purchased damn near anywhere these days.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

DJ,

I love the setup you have on your car. The reason I would recommend the EVO conversion for the everyday guy is because of ease of availability of parts. EVO pads, rotors and such can be purchased damn near anywhere these days.

I definitely have to agree the brembos are more bling, and yes you do point out an obvious shortcoming. It is a pain in the ass unless you go through TCE to get pads and rotors. It would especially suck if you had to wait if somehow your pads wore down without you noticing and you had to have your car sit for a week +.

I dont have any good pictures of the setup, this is the best I got for you...

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I ran both evo 8 rims and 5zigen fno1rc in 18x7.5 at 43 offset, and both cleared with tons of space.

 

[bmoha2]

I think the TCE rotors with wilwood calipers looks really good! They also look to be alot smaller than the EVO brakes. I dig that. How do you bleed them? I am pretty sure i will be able to keep my 16s if I don't go for too big of a rotor. The Enkei 16X7 J10s I have have tons of room in both direction. EVO brakes wouldn't fit but the TCE setup would. How large are the stock rotors? How big are the rotors you have on?