Clutch system bled, but soft low pedal and slipping clutch...

[foxfan88]

Recently had the engine and trans out of my talon changing the shortblocks out.

Got everything back in, i got the clutch bled. I stuck a rubber hose over the bleeder and had my GF pump move the pedal back and forth, then bled it, i got a few air bubbles out but I am pretty sure its bled, cant get any more air bubbles out, just starts circulating fluid into the cup and drains it from the fluid resevoir.

After doing this the pedal is real soft a smushy feeling and its way down by he floor. the pedal will push it self up, but comes short about 1-2" from the top stop.

I start the car (CSS unplugged) and i CANT get the car into gear using the pedal. So i start the car in gear. start going down the road and the clutch slips really bad. Starts smelling real bad. If u plant the clutch pedal to the floor, I can get the clutch to disengage some, enough to where i can freely rev the engine with the trans in gear.

I was thinking the clutch could be worn out, I'm still using the old stocker (i'm cheap i know) but if that was the case... Then i should have been able to put the car in gear (with no pedal)if the clutch disc was truly worn too thin.

Are there any more clutch adjustments i should know about??

 

[EagleTalon1993]

Got ya, Here's the deal did you also properly bleed the slave cylinder ? Here's an article on how to do it step by step. Very common mistake made is that people bleed the master cylinder and line but not the slave cylinder.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...how-properly-bleed-your-hydraulic-clutch.html
Hope this helps.

 

[foxfan88]

I DIDNT do that. I will try that and see what happens.... do you think this would have anything to do with the clutch slipping while going down the road? but its odd that at the same time the clutch is grabbing enough to where i cant get the car into gear.

 

[daren_p]

Two things come to mind right away, not bleed properly, TRE has a method that works well:

How to Bleed a Hydraulic Clutch - Team Rip Engineering

And for slipping, you may have pedal pump up, ie you need to properly adjust you master cylinder rod under the dash. Check out Jacks Transmissios website, he has a video posted on how to properly adjust & is about the easiest method I've seen.

 

[DSM1G90]

My own "old school" trick to bleed systems is to take the cap top off the master resevouir and open up the petcock on the slave. Let the fluid to run a bit out of the petcock on the slave then close the petcock. Get a helper inside to pump up the system on the pedal til pressure is reached, then keep the foot on the pedal. You open up the petcock and the pedal will suddenly collapse and the helper keeps that pedal to the floor. If he releases, you gotta do it all over again. Close the petcock and repeat the process again at least twice. By then, you should have bled all of the air out along with full pressure in the lines and then you top off the master resevouir then put the cap on.

Wonder if the master/slave cylinder is getting tired....Slaves do love to get tired since they really have to work.

The "O" ring on the piston on the slave will go first due to age and get hardened up. Then the walls of the cylinder get's a little scorched by the drag of the piston where they will not seal.

If you find that a slave is tired, best to do both master and slave replacement together.

-DSM

 

[toofast82]

Your clutch/pressure plate/tob could be excessively worn as said. Could be a bleeding issue or something failing in hydraulic system.
Also there is an adjustment for the master
Clutch Pedeal Adjustment - Team Rip Engineering
Check where the fork sits in relation to bellhousing
TRE TECH TIPS
Also since you have a 1g, check the pedal assembly for wear as well. This will cause a low pedal

 

[foxfan88]

Messed around with it again today. Re-bled the lines and also pressed the slave rod into the slave cyl bled that. got a bubble to two out.

I'm still not able to get it out of gear. and there is alot of slack in the clutch pedal. I got under the dash and found that the adjustment rod is on the last threads (far as it can go)

If i watch under the dash and press the pedal by hand. There is like 1-2" of travel of the pedal before the master cylinder rod even moves. No more adjustment can be done, since its all on the end of the threaded rod.

Should the clutch hydralic system be pushing the clutch pedal all the way back up until it hits the Cruise control button stop????

The really odd thing is the clutch will slip while driving the car "in gear" (started in gear)
It would make sense that regardless of any clutch hydralic system issues, the clutch should still fully engage with no pedal.

I was thinking for some reason the master cylinder rod could be jammed up in the master cyl pressing the plate fingers slightyl disengaging the clutch.

Or and actual clutch problem. I know this sounds stupid but i didnt use an alignment tool to get the clutch and etc on. I handtighting the PP bolts and stuck the tranny on (let the tranny slide the clutch disc where it needed to be) then took it back off and torqued the PP bolts. then put the trans on. I SHOULDNT have done this but i used the bolts to draw the trans on the last 3/4 of an inch or so. Perhaps i got he clutch disc jammed in the splines or messed something up.

FWIW when i got the car first fired up, i heard a few intermittent crackling noises behing the motor in the clutch area. That went away after a while.

I am thinking i may have FUBARed something up putting the clutch on like that. you live and learn i guess.



Also i know the PO of this car and the car ran a drove and the clutch system was fine before i got the car, so it has to be something i did.

Any more input?

 

[mitsuman3000]

did you let the tranny hang by the shaft without a support underneath when putting the bolts in?

Also, why didn't you bolt up the tranny to the engine and then put the engine and tranny in together?
(just curious since you had both out and it is easier to bolt up out of the car, that is the way I always do it if I have the engine out)

 

[foxfan88]

I actually did do it that way. Put the trans on the motor with it on the cherry picker and then stabbed it in the car as one unit.

As for letting the trans hang, I dont think i let it hang, buts it a possibility that i could have perhaps and not realized it, when i was bolting trans up, i had the engine on the engine hoist real low to the ground, so i only had to lift the trans up no more than a foot to get it on the motor.

 

[toofast82]

If i watch under the dash and press the pedal by hand. There is like 1-2" of travel of the pedal before the master cylinder rod even moves. No more adjustment can be done, since its all on the end of the threaded rod.

If you don't see the pedal push the master rod immediately when pushing clutch in by hand, your pedal assembly is worn.
Not the funnest part to swap on a dsm either

 

[DSM1G90]

+1 on that comment above - changing out a clutch pedal assembly... in not being fun ..

They improved that design when they came out with the 2G cars..

Only thing that we 1G owners have against us is when that clutch pedal assembly wears down and you can't simply do any kind of adjustment to get back in line...

-DSM

 

[Afroclipse]

Check to see the distance between the fork and the transmission housing. Fork should be either in the middle or towards drivers side, if its leaning towards the passenger side it means the fork and ball have worn out and slave has already been extended so it doesn't matter how much bleeding you do it won't adjust right. You have a choice between shimming your Pivot ball or buying a new fork and ball. Shimming is trial and error so be prepared to put the tranny on and off till you get it right. Personally I would just buy another ball and fork.

 

[foxfan88]

altight where can i get a pedal assembly or parts for them at?
Are there any write ups tht simplfy the clutch pedal swap? Ive got a fox mustang that i did an auto to manual swap in, so i know what you guys mean when you say swapping pedals isnt fun.

 

[toofast82]

1G DSM Clutch Pedal Lever Joint

Another option which many don't recommend is welding
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-drivetrain/156805-1g-clutch-pedal-welding-bushing-how.html

Either choice, the pedal assebly still need to come out

 

[foxfan88]

Messed around with it again.
For grins i checked the fork location in relation to trans. Its around the center maybe a hair towards the drivers side. According to the above post that would be correct.

I drove the car again with no clutch and i am pretty sure the slipping clutch issue was from some grease/oil on the clutch or PP or flywheel.

This time around the clutch didnt really slip and i was even harder on the car this time. Even managed to get a slight "launch" in, no slip that i could feel, seemed to jump out like it should, also tried to lug in higher gears and i didnt get any slip, cartainly no smells.

Car also seemed to be pulling better compared to the first drive where it seemed real slow with a slipping smelling clutch. Considering the car runs fine even with no clutch i think its fine at this point, it something was amiss i would imagine i would hear or feel something wrong, ive driven my mustang numerous times without the clutch and it feels the same.

So at this point i am pretty sure its the Clutch pedal is the problem. I sat in my friends 93 NT talon and his clutch resistance is about the same as mine, except his starts right when you move the pedal where mine moves a few inches before any movement of the master rod. my car i can BARELY start to disengage the clutch. Like i said above, i can sort of get a launch, with my pedal to the floor. The clutch disengages enough to where i can sort of free rev the motor, but it still drags and moves the car some. Its not enough disengagement to get it in the gear at a stop.

Just the clarify, the hydralic system should push the clutch pedal back all the way, meaning i shouldnt be able to pull back on the pedal more from where the system takes it back to???

thanks for all the help guys sorry for the long posts

 

[toofast82]

Just the clarify, the hydralic system should push the clutch pedal back all the way, meaning i shouldnt be able to pull back on the pedal more from where the system takes it back to???

That is correct!

 

[foxfan88]

Ok i got started on pulling the pedal assembly. I am wanting to know how exactly i can take the steering column completely out of the car. I took out the 8 bolts on the two brackets and the whole column swings down. I would like to take it out, would make it alot easier to work under the dash for me.

I found the small clamp about mid-way on the column with a nut a bolt, i took that off and i can get the thing to slide back and forth but i dont know if this where it will seperate. I tried pulling hard but it wouldnt come loose.

If someone could tell me where i can get the column out i would appreciate it!

thanks.

 

[toofast82]

I found the small clamp about mid-way on the column with a nut a bolt, i took that off and i can get the thing to slide back and forth but i dont know if this where it will seperate. I tried pulling hard but it wouldnt come loose.

If someone could tell me where i can get the column out i would appreciate it!

thanks.

Your on the right track with that nut/bolt on steering shaft. There are 4bolts furthur up the shaft by the steering wheel and then it should pop out!

 

[foxfan88]

I think i already have got them out. I removed a total of 8 bolts and then the nut a bolt clamp. One of the brackers was towards the firewall and there was a universal type join under it, the other was closer to the steering wheel. As of right now the column is laying of the floor. where i removed the nut a bolt clamp. the shaft is sliding but it wont quite come out.


Are there more bolts that what i listed?

 

[toofast82]

You can only move it so far due to the fact that there is an electrical harness attached to it. I rested my steering wheel on the seat, but the shaft should come out all the way.

 

[foxfan88]

Hmm i unplugged every electrical connection there was holding on to it. Unless there is something inside??

Regardless i got the pedals out this afternoon. Was a pain no doubt but wasnt all that bad.
Only troubles i had was getting the assembly past the small bracket (that bolts the plastic relay panel down, and getting the holes to clear the Master rod on the brake booster.

I disassembled the little air and there is considerable wear on the slot, i'm am confident this will help out alot.

thanks for help and i will report back!

 

[foxfan88]

Heya guys. I got the new pedal and arm and bushings. After lots of sweat and cutting the crap out of my hands i got the pedals back in the car (MAJOR PAIN IN THE BUTT.)

Good thing is now i can drive the car, i can disengage the clutch now and drive the car good. All seems ok, i never had owned a DSM before so i dont know whats "normal." I will need to drive my buddies DSM to see how its supposed to feel.

The clutch is still slipped a bit, seems to be getting better, but if a launch the car from a dig, i can smell clutch within 1-2 seconds. Its strange because it doesnt really feel like it slipped. I am wondering if i still need to drive it around alot more if there is any dirt/grease that needs to get burned off... I cant even get it to slip just lugging the car in higher gears and low speeds and flooring it, so i am not too sure.

Worst case i will have to replace it. Also was thinking there is an adjustment problem. I simply put the master rod where it was before i ever touched the car (master rod only threaded in a few turns) I dont know if this is right.