1G Clutch Fork won’t move.

[1cleangsx]

Hey guys I’m hoping someone can help me out with this issue. I’m 200 miles or so into my build, had some clutch drag like most, had it fixed apparently for a day until I adjusted the rod some more and it’s been a downhill journey since, haven’t driven the car in the past month because of this issue.

So it started with me replacing my 6 year old master with a new OEM unit. I swapped out the 1g rod with a 2g rod for more adjustment as this method has worked for some. With the 2g rod I was pre-loaded, couldn’t move the fork by hand so I adjusted the rod out (towards the pedal) like in the Jacks video until I could move it.

With the car running it would NOT go into 1st gear, no matter how far in or out I adjusted the rod, or shift linkage, no 1st gear, so I never even backed out of the driveway. So I put the 1g rod back in, along with replacing the slave with a new OEM unit, restrictor removed like jafro did, bled the whole system until there was no more air/bubbles in the fluid, but again, no matter the position of the MC rod and or pedal height, the fork won’t move.

I cracked the slave bleeder just now which of course let the fork move some by hand but not the full normal range. I don’t know ? I’m wondering if I damaged the bleeder valve on the master or what I don’t know. Any thoughts or tips would be greatly appreciated thanks guys

Sorry I didn’t mention this set up is a Jacks trans with just 200 miles, same as the clutch fork, tob, south bend clutch/act flywheel all just 200 miles.

 

[pauleyman]

What is the flywheel step height? Is this clutch stiffer than your old one? Have you checked your clutch pedal assembly for wear and play?

 

[Mech Addict]

Did you ever have someone press the pedal while you watched at the slave/ fork? Was there travel? If you unmount the slave and take the slave rod out of the fork, does the fork move freely toward the engine? What’s the restrictor? (Something inside the mc?).

 

[1cleangsx]

What is the flywheel step height? Is this clutch stiffer than your old one? Have you checked your clutch pedal assembly for wear and play?

Hey Paul, I never personally checked the step height, it was a new ACT flywheel. This clutch is the ssx/b series ceramic, and the pedal stiffness is about the same or less as my old ACT 2600. As far as the pedal assembly, when I’m on my back under the dash, the coil spring instantly moves with the pedal, there’s maybe a range of an inch or so before it then moves the master rod if that makes sense. This set up was “working” in January when I first got the car going, just not perfectly. Honestly I feel like it’s a symptom of my bleeder valve in the master, funny thing is before I pulled my prior master cylinder I was never able to block it off with over adjustment like you can with a 2g. Makes me wonder if I damaged something swapping the rods back and fourth?

Did you ever have someone press the pedal while you watched at the slave/ fork? Was there travel? If you unmount the slave and take the slave rod out of the fork, does the fork move freely toward the engine? What’s the restrictor? (Something inside the mc?).

I was under the car yesterday cracking the bleeder as my wife was on the clutch pedal, and yes, travel looked normal when the pedal was depressed, we bled with the tube off the bleeder into the brake fluid bottle until there were no more air bubbles. I’m sure the fork would move if I unbolted the slave, as again when I cracked the bleeder open to atmosphere i could then move the fork a little but not all the way. The restrictor is a little rubber piece inside the slave bore where the hydraulic ss line connects. According to Jafro it’s there for better pedal modulation or something like that but he removes them for quicker shifts. Worst case I might just buy another master cylinder, maybe try re bleeding or pull the slave and check fork movement as you mentioned, anyways I greatly appreciate the responses thanks guys

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Here’s the 2 different rods, I never could get the car happy on the longer 2g

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[pauleyman]

Hey Paul, I never personally checked the step height, it was a new ACT flywheel.

This could be a problem.
Bit of a read for an experienced guy but please read this

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/clutch-basic-101-a-clutch-basics-thread-for-everybody.459908/

This clutch is the ssx/b series ceramic, and the pedal stiffness is about the same or less as my old ACT 2600. As far as the pedal assembly, when I’m on my back under the dash, the coil spring instantly moves with the pedal, there’s maybe a range of an inch or so before it then moves the master rod if that makes sense.

This is likely your problem. That coil is not indicative of anything. The rod should move the instant your pedal does.
Read the tutorial I wrote and test the pedal. My guess is right now if you tried you sit in the seat, reach down and pull the pedal and it will pull up and inch or so. If that's true your assembly is bad. Even if it isn't it deserves a full inspection.

This set up was “working” in January when I first got the car going, just not perfectly. Honestly I feel like it’s a symptom of my bleeder valve in the master, funny thing is before I pulled my prior master cylinder I was never able to block it off with over adjustment like you can with a 2g. Makes me wonder if I damaged something swapping the rods back and fourth?

I doubt you damaged anything.

 

[1cleangsx]

Your right about the pedal. I’ve just dreaded the thought of pulling the assembly haha. I’m at work right now but I’ll read the write up once I get home, thanks again for help

 

[pauleyman]

Your right about the pedal. I’ve just dreaded the thought of pulling the assembly haha. I’m at work right now but I’ll read the write up once I get home, thanks again for help

I used to think that too but once I did it myself it wasn't that bad. Certainly not easy but I wouldn't put it in my top 5 difficult list.
If I recall I remove the drivers seat so I can lay on my back on a pad. If you planned any other work under dash this would be the time to do it. I took out the steering column, can't remember if that is required. Been 11 or 12 years ago.

 

[1cleangsx]

Yeah I’ll start looking in to it, I’m sure there’s some good write ups on here, one question tho, would you recommend a rebuild over welding? My understanding is if it isn’t welded properly it can worsen the problem, I would lean towards replacing the factory bushings as oppose to welding what do you think?

 

[pauleyman]

Yeah I’ll start looking in to it, I’m sure there’s some good write ups on here, one question tho, would you recommend a rebuild over welding? My understanding is if it isn’t welded properly it can worsen the problem, I would lean towards replacing the factory bushings as oppose to welding what do you think?

The problem is the root cause isn't usually the bushings. The bushings contribute but the biggest issue is usually the pedal assembly itself. The piece the master cylinder bolts to on the pedal assembly ( I call it the clevis piece) has a hole in it where it bolts to the pedal. The hole has two flats machined into the hole so it's sort of Double "D" shaped instead of completely round. The pedal itself has a long rod that when you push the pedal the rod twists and moves this clevis piece. The rod is machined to fit this double "d" hole. In time the hole gets worn out and the eventually the rod wears down also. I have successfully installed just a new clevis piece before and removed all the play but if both pieces are worn the only choice is welding or a new assembly. I'm not sure what parts are available anymore new. I'm honestly kind of surprised the aftermarket hasn't stepped into to make new parts as the clevis piece is pretty simple. Maybe improve how it mounts to the rod and/or fashion new mounting like splines. I guess it was always just simpler to weld it. I would make damn sure if it were welded you take out the slop first and weld in the correct position. Would suck to weld it only to find out it doesn't work.
If you lay on the floor and grab the clevis piece with one hand and the pedal with the other it's easy to try and move them relative to each other and see if the assembly is worn. If it's worn it will move even if the clevis is bolted down tight. You can also remove the clevis piece easily without removing any assembly so you can inspect it without too much work.

 

[1cleangsx]

Well I’ll be digging into that soon, I’ll post pics

 

[1cleangsx]

Okay guys so I just went out and messed with it again. I agree with pauley that my pedal assembly is worn, but I don’t think that’s what’s preloading my clutch fork. Just now got under the car, cracked open the bleeder, no fluid, the master reservoir is full, I read the comment from @ist dwa if this happens the rod is over adjusted, well before I cracked the bleeder I backed the rod out almost as far as I could, once I manually move the fork only then does it bleed out, once the bleeder is closed, same thing, NO movement in the fork. This HAS to be the bleeder valve, our according to the jacks video anyways, with the thousands I already have in this pile another $180 or so for another new master cylinder would be a drop in the bucket

 

[pauleyman]

When you say bleeder do you mean the valve in the master? I keep getting confused.

 

[1cleangsx]

Yes the bleeder in the master that jacks refers to in the video when the fork won’t move, I’m gonna buy a new master, install and report back, again I greatly appreciate all the responses, that was a good write up Paul, I’m looking at the brass bushing kit for the pedal assembly from jnz tuning, but as you mention I’ll inspect the rod/lever as you mentioned as well

 

[pauleyman]

Hey guys I’m hoping someone can help me out with this issue. I’m 200 miles or so into my build, had some clutch drag like most, had it fixed apparently for a day until I adjusted the rod some more and it’s been a downhill journey since, haven’t driven the car in the past month because of this issue.

So it started with me replacing my 6 year old master with a new OEM unit. I swapped out the 1g rod with a 2g rod for more adjustment as this method has worked for some. With the 2g rod I was pre-loaded, couldn’t move the fork by hand so I adjusted the rod out (towards the pedal) like in the Jacks video until I could move it.

With the car running it would NOT go into 1st gear, no matter how far in or out I adjusted the rod, or shift linkage, no 1st gear, so I never even backed out of the driveway. So I put the 1g rod back in, along with replacing the slave with a new OEM unit, restrictor removed like jafro did, bled the whole system until there was no more air/bubbles in the fluid, but again, no matter the position of the MC rod and or pedal height, the fork won’t move.

Meaning you can't push it back in?

I cracked the slave bleeder just now which of course let the fork move some by hand but not the full normal range. I don’t know ? I’m wondering if I damaged the bleeder valve on the master or what I don’t know. Any thoughts or tips would be greatly appreciated thanks guys

Sorry I didn’t mention this set up is a Jacks trans with just 200 miles, same as the clutch fork, tob, south bend clutch/act flywheel all just 200 miles.

 

[1cleangsx]

Correct. Can’t move it at all, even when the slave bleeder was open to atmosphere it was hard to move the fork by hand. Earlier I had a thought of putting my old functioning master back in to see if it would work, one thing to note is I know on a 1g master, it’s impossible to block the bleeder by over adjustment, I’ve had that rod turned in so far it was about to fall out of the clevis, I could still move the fork. I never experienced a blocked bleeder valve/no fork movement until I put a 2g rod into a 1g master. I think that’s where I went wrong, I stuck something in a hole that wasn’t designed for that long of a rod That’s my theory anyways, when I essentially over adjusted my brand new master with the wrong part it messed something up. But who knows, I will order another new master, but just for $hits and gigs I’m gonna throw my old undefiled master back in to see what happens, I’ll report back

 

[AlexGsxCummins]

Just to chime in, the pedal assembly can be removed without pulling the column but man is it a pain. Good luck!

 

[pauleyman]

Correct. Can’t move it at all, even when the slave bleeder was open to atmosphere it was hard to move the fork by hand. Earlier I had a thought of putting my old functioning master back in to see if it would work, one thing to note is I know on a 1g master, it’s impossible to block the bleeder by over adjustment, I’ve had that rod turned in so far it was about to fall out of the clevis, I could still move the fork. I never experienced a blocked bleeder valve/no fork movement until I put a 2g rod into a 1g master. I think that’s where I went wrong, I stuck something in a hole that wasn’t designed for that long of a rod That’s my theory anyways, when I essentially over adjusted my brand new master with the wrong part it messed something up. But who knows, I will order another new master, but just for $hits and gigs I’m gonna throw my old undefiled master back in to see what happens, I’ll report back

Before you do that let me state this and make a suggestion.
If I recall it is possible to over adjust IF the pedal assembly is good. A bad assembly moves the clevis piece back too far. You have to adjust like crazy just to take up the slack from the wear before you ever get any actual rod movement.

Anyway if you're removing the master anyway just pop the clip out and pull the piston. You'll be able to see very easily if there is any damage, debris etc and you can check the orifice too.
I would suggest doing this with the slave also because you can push the slave back in with the bleeder open something is wrong.
I hate to be that guy but you are pushing the slave back into it's bore?

 

[Mech Addict]

I have a 1g oem master and slave, but with the swapped mc 2g rod. My clutch pedal has unwanted play, but it is due to the end of the clutch pedal shaft end, not the arm that goes from shaft to clevis. I replaced that arm with a brand new oem, and no help. I now have it all adjusted pretty well. No clutch drag. I was able to adjust the mc rod until I could not push the slave piston in, and then backed the clevis 1/4 turn, and can push the slave piston by hand. This is supposedly maximum adjustment for throw. I also did all the bushings with new OEM, but with 97k, the old ones looked fine.
I agree some fabricator should come up with something better than the current double-D affair. Splines maybe. I also use the factory hard lines with a replaced rubber hose from frame to trans (eom-copy). I must still have the restrictor in the slave, as I didn’t know about it. I don’t think it hampers the speed of clutch action, speaking just as a driver of 30+ years, not a back to back comparison or anything.
And when I removed the pedal assembly, yes unbolted the column and also had to unbolt the brake booster and move it a out a little. Found the brake mc had a leak I otherwise couldn’t see, and replaced it.

 

[Widgmaster]

If you changed the 1g rod for a 2g rod and ran into problems why can't you just go back to the 1 g rod. I understand the 2g is supposed to give you more adjustment but it sounds like it just gave you a big problem.

 

[1cleangsx]

Before you do that let me state this and make a suggestion.
If I recall it is possible to over adjust IF the pedal assembly is good. A bad assembly moves the clevis piece back too far. You have to adjust like crazy just to take up the slack from the wear before you ever get any actual rod movement.

Anyway if you're removing the master anyway just pop the clip out and pull the piston. You'll be able to see very easily if there is any damage, debris etc and you can check the orifice too.
I would suggest doing this with the slave also because you can push the slave back in with the bleeder open something is wrong.
I hate to be that guy but you are pushing the slave back into it's bore?

I’ll do that, good idea might as well open her up, and yes I pushed the slave back into its bore with the bleeder open as that was the only way I could move the fork.

I have a 1g oem master and slave, but with the swapped mc 2g rod. My clutch pedal has unwanted play, but it is due to the end of the clutch pedal shaft end, not the arm that goes from shaft to clevis. I replaced that arm with a brand new oem, and no help. I now have it all adjusted pretty well. No clutch drag. I was able to adjust the mc rod until I could not push the slave piston in, and then backed the clevis 1/4 turn, and can push the slave piston by hand. This is supposedly maximum adjustment for throw. I also did all the bushings with new OEM, but with 97k, the old ones looked fine.
I agree some fabricator should come up with something better than the current double-D affair. Splines maybe. I also use the factory hard lines with a replaced rubber hose from frame to trans (eom-copy). I must still have the restrictor in the slave, as I didn’t know about it. I don’t think it hampers the speed of clutch action, speaking just as a driver of 30+ years, not a back to back comparison or anything.
And when I removed the pedal assembly, yes unbolted the column and also had to unbolt the brake booster and move it a out a little. Found the brake mc had a leak I otherwise couldn’t see, and replaced it.

I tried adjusting it the same way, just like that. But with the car running it did not want to go into 1st gear. So I figured something still wasn’t right. Assuming I don’t have a synchro issue within my 200 mile trans I tried a quarter turn out with fork movement, and several turns out with fork movement, no 1st. I even played with the shifter linkage while idling no change. If I went to 2nd gear first it would go, but I didn’t even bother driving it like that. So I put the 1g rod back in and here we are

 

[1cleangsx]

If you changed the 1g rod for a 2g rod and ran into problems why can't you just go back to the 1 g rod. I understand the 2g is supposed to give you more adjustment but it sounds like it just gave you a big problem.

These problems are with the 1g rod.

 

[Mech Addict]

It goes into 2nd but not 1st gear?!? That doesn’t sound right. My trans is also newly rebuilt (50 mi?), but from TRE. Everything from the crank flange to the rear diff flange is rebuilt, and all clutch and shift linkage. Amazing I haven’t royally screwed it up and the car is driving well at the moment.
It should be the case that you can keep adjusting the clutch mc rod until the slave can be pushed by hand. If the rod end runs into the clevis, then you might have to chop off a bit or go back to the 1g rod. If you still can’t move the slave piston by hand, something is whack with the mc.

 

[pauleyman]

Hey Paul, I never personally checked the step height, it was a new ACT flywheel. This clutch is the ssx/b series ceramic, and the pedal stiffness is about the same or less as my old ACT 2600. As far as the pedal assembly, when I’m on my back under the dash, the coil spring instantly moves with the pedal, there’s maybe a range of an inch or so before it then moves the master rod if that makes sense. This set up was “working” in January when I first got the car going, just not perfectly. Honestly I feel like it’s a symptom of my bleeder valve in the master, funny thing is before I pulled my prior master cylinder I was never able to block it off with over adjustment like you can with a 2g. Makes me wonder if I damaged something swapping the rods back and fourth?


I was under the car yesterday cracking the bleeder as my wife was on the clutch pedal, and yes, travel looked normal when the pedal was depressed, we bled with the tube off the bleeder into the brake fluid bottle until there were no more air bubbles. I’m sure the fork would move if I unbolted the slave, as again when I cracked the bleeder open to atmosphere i could then move the fork a little but not all the way.

This statement still confuses me. With the bleeder open you essentially are no longer connected to the master and you should be able to push the slave piston all the way to the bottom with ease. I'm suspect of the slave the most here.
I'm also curious about this restrictor. I've had a bunch of them apart and I've never seen a rubber piece. The restrictor I'm familiar with is a little metal plate with a spring behind it.

The restrictor is a little rubber piece inside the slave bore where the hydraulic ss line connects. According to Jafro it’s there for better pedal modulation or something like that but he removes them for quicker shifts. Worst case I might just buy another master cylinder, maybe try re bleeding or pull the slave and check fork movement as you mentioned, anyways I greatly appreciate the responses thanks guys

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Here’s the 2 different rods, I never could get the car happy on the longer 2g

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[1cleangsx]

Hey Paul, when the slave bleeder was open I’ve been able to move the fork as you mention, but it was still harder than usual. The restrictor piece is in the bore that the ss hydraulic line connects to, I’d show a pic but I already threw it away , In the Jafro series on YouTube “Trans and Clutch” part 8 shows him remove it from a new slave. I’m about to go pull the master now..

 

[1cleangsx]

She moves! In the process of removing the master, I got as far as unthreading the master rod from under the dash, sucked out the fluid, and before I went to back out the 2 bolts on the firewall I unthreaded the hardline fitting, and gave the hardline a gentle tug, so it would easily come out once I was ready to remove the master, and just out of curiosity I decided to check the fork and of course it moved, with normal resistance this time. I moved it a few times like this, threaded the hardline screw back in and it still moves perfectly normal now! Maybe I shoved the hardline into the bore a little too far when I installed it? Not sure, of course now I just need to re bleed everything again, which probably won’t be until this weekend, but I’m hoping the issue is fixed. I will also be tackling the pedal assembly removal soon, but I’m itching to see if there’s any improvement with first gear engagement first

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