clutch failure; ideas as to what happened?

[bmoha7321]

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clutch failed. less than a hundred miles on it. new clutch fork, pivot ball, slave cylinder, ACT 2600, ACT 4 puck unsprung friction disc, ACT Streetlite flywheel, ARP flywheel bolts. everything was tight. Input shaft bearing on tranny is fine. No crankwalk. It looks like half the pressure plate fingers fell off the center part of the TOB that spins on bearings, got caught on the side of it (the part that doesn't spin freely) and stuck. But why?

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really nothing remarkable looking as far as damage to the TOB. It is a ACT TOB. That is, a TOB that came from ACT when I ordered the clutch kit. ACT doesn't actually make TOBs. They outsource them.

 

[my dreamt dsm]

Sorry! I'm kinda blind but where. The ring around the pp where the tob sits is normal.

edit:
Is it me or the last picture with the left 2 3 forks looks lower then the rest?

 

[ed1380]

Sorry! I'm kinda blind but where. The ring around the pp where the tob sits is normal.

edit:
Is it me or the last picture with the left 2 3 forks looks lower then the rest?

That's the problem. looks like the pp was off-center and some of the fingers got caught in the tob

when you did the clutch, were there hollow dowels between the motor and transmission? one up from and one under starter

these things

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[bmoha7321]

Yes to dowels. Tranny came with new ones

Err... The dowels weren't hollow. Are we talking about different dowels?

 

[TWOpointFORliter]

I was also thinking about the dowels. My first clutch failed because my engine didn't have them. Without them the tranny can shift on the engine enough to tear up the clutch. My new act clutch came with new dowels to install. 12,000 miles on the new one and so far so good.

 

[ed1380]

Yes to dowels. Tranny came with new ones

Err... The dowels weren't hollow. Are we talking about different dowels?

They have to be hollow, because bolts go through them


Couple years ago there was a big stink about act springs popping out, and the problem was people not using the dowels.

 

[Bouche Dag]

The solid dowels are for the tcase.

I was missing dowels and the same thing happened.

 

[bmoha7321]

Oh ok. I see the hollow dowels you're talking about. They are installed

I have two hollow dowels between the tranny & the engine block and two solid dowels between the tranny case & transfer case

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Dude, you gotta put your avi back or something. I never know it's you until way after

Looks like a product defect. Call up ACT.

 

[bmoha7321]

Yea I gotta get a pic of the new silver metallic GSX shell resized to be my avatar!
Yea I've been thru it. Looked at it from every angle and haven't found a problem with the install. I took my time. Made sure everything was right. Well except for overtorquing the bolts that hold the pressure plate to the flywheel. But those were all intact. No signs of any warpage. All the friction surfaces are pristine looking. New slave cylinder. New clutch master cylinder. I'm drawing a blank for possibilities other than a problem between the TOB and the pressure plate fingers.

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as you can see in the last pictures both the hollow dowels were installed. The act clutch kit came with new ones which I installed.
And yes dreamnt dsm 6 of the fingers are bent down. A couple are bent down about a quarter of an inch.
And no the wear ring is not normal. The center ring of the throw out bearing that spins on the actual bearing of the TOB rides only on the end of the fingers. The scored circular grove that has been worn into the fingers of the clutch pressure plate corresponds to the flat edge of the TOB that is not supposed to rotate.

 

[bmoha7321]

Aha! I figured it out! The TOB did fail! Just before I was packaging it up to send back to ACT I looked at the TOB and the center had completely shifted off to the side as far as it could! The TOB did fail! I'll post a pic later!

 

[3kgt2nv]

in the tech articles there is a write up showing all the deficiency the act throw out bearing has compared to an oem and it says they are basically 1 step BELOW garbage and not to use them

 

[bmoha7321]

The "official" word from ACT is there are no "ACT" TOBs. ACT outsources their TOBs. They don't make their own. And according to ACT the TOB that comes with their clutch packages is "complimentary" and not reccommended for use.
TOB definitively failed. Hopefully they warranty the clutch because of the failure.
And dammit! I could just kick myself! I took out the old OEM TOB and it was fine! I should have just reused it!

 

[ed1380]

Wait? So act supplies a tob bearing that they know is junk?

 

[3kgt2nv]

they supply it its the end user that decides to use it or not. i just ordered my clutch and a new oem tob at te same time. some times stock is better

 

[bmoha7321]

well the clutch, TOB and 4 puck friction disc have all been shipped back to ACT for warranty inspection. It's up to ACT to do the right thing. If not then I'll be going to a different clutch manufacturer.

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stock is way better! I should have just reused the old OEM TOB! It had maybe 38K on it! Spun fine! I'm irritated.

 

[bmoha7321]

Update! Finally ACT got the broken clutch parts back! Took forever due to the holiday! They did find a problem with the pressure plate diaprahgm and the TOB and are sending me all new parts. Should have them next week

 

[805DSM]

Hopefully the new set doesnt f-up on you,same thing happen to me and i just went with a different clutch.

 

[bmoha7321]

And I have to say thankyou to ACT. They were very professional. They could have tried to weasel out of it but the did the right thing

 

[bmoha7321]

Ok! So I got the replacement parts from ACT. New 2600 pressure plate, ACT 4 puck unsprung & tob. The tob is in an ACT box but is outsourced. And... Right out of the box the new TOB is broken just like the old one! It went in the trash. I'll be ordering an OEM TOB tomorrow!

 

[Bill Hincher]

those throw out bearings are built that, I forgot the reason, but I went through all that mis alignment stuff and found out, that is the way they are made
they are a constant contact style bearing and they are built to take the heat

the spring/diaphram in the old pressure plate is soft/bad

 

[bmoha7321]

Interesting; just received OEM TOB from Map. Packaged in genuine Mitsubishi part box. And... It's made by the same Japanese manufacturer as the ACT included TOB. There are key differences tho; the ACT TOB uses two plastic tabs to keep the center section located. The tabs are flimsy and can easily be defeated by pushing with a thumb. The OEM TOB locks the center section in place with 4 metal tabs. I can't even see how the ACT TOB could be expected not to fail. It's like it's designed to go off center, slip off the fingers of the pressure plate, and fail.