Check this out (pic inside)

[swing lo]

I know the crank and the oil pump sprocket are correct for the timing marks, but as for the marks on the cam gears...........the book say's to use a socket to turn the cam gears until the marks align with each other, but do the marks have to be perfectly side by side with each other or are they fine as they sit now? THe way the belt sit's now, all the teeth are snug in the grooves, and the like i said before the crank and the oil sprocket are lined up correctly, but i just need to know if this is how the cam gear timing marks are supposed to look.

Main question: Do the cam gear timing marks have to be perfectly side by side with each other? I just want to make sure before i put tension on the belt.

 

[brian524]

Nope you a few degrees off still, the marks should line perfectly up and be flush with the head. Id say you your off about 1 tooth

 

[90GSTman]

Did you have the head milled? Are those stock cams? Excesive milling can through cam timing off.

 

[swing lo]

The cams are stock, and the usual machine work was done to the head when they cleaned it. I had the head re-surfaced, but not drastically.

The head work is the normal pressure test, magnaflux, acid bath, etc.


So basically i need to have those pins at an exact match.

 

[Syndicate13]

I'd say you are one tooth off on the exhaust side. What you need to do is rotate it clockwise til it's a little below the intake mark, then when you tension the belt it will rotate to where it should be. If you were to tension the belt now it would move up even further.

 

[tsilover]

Get two buffalo clips ( ithink that's what they're called). They ar a black piece of metal that makes like a triangle, with two pieces of metal coming out at the pointy end of the triangle. I know it's the worst description ever but they are used to clip papers together. Clip the timing belt to on of the cam gears and get 2 wrenches, when the timing marks match up, clip the belt to the other gear. Then align the rest of the belt.


PS I think, I'm not sure, but i think it doesn't matter which cam gears u clip on first.

 

[Defiant]

A lot like this, for the digitally able:

 

[tsilover]

There ya go!


Thanks Defiant

 

[kpt4321]

There should be 4 marks on the cam gears, they will al line up when they are adjusted correctly. They wil also line up with the top of the head.

Your crank and oil pump are fine. Those cams may not be.

Was that picture taken with full tension?

 

[tsilover]

There should be 4 marks on the cam gears, they will al line up when they are adjusted correctly. They wil also line up with the top of the head.

Your crank and oil pump are fine. Those cams may not be.

Was that picture taken with full tension?

Tension or not, the cams need to line up even when not under tension. The tensioner pulley won't move them.

 

[1fast97gsx]

Tension or not, the cams need to line up even when not under tension. The tensioner pulley won't move them.

I thought there was something with the exhaust cam though that you have to move it 1 tooth or something because it will move when you pull the pin out of the auto tensioner? I don't know, I guess I just got lucky everytime I've done them so far or something because I always got it on the first try.

 

[Syndicate13]

Tension or not, the cams need to line up even when not under tension. The tensioner pulley won't move them.

This is wrong. When you put tension on the belt it will move the exhaust cam counterclockwise slightly. That's why I said to set the exhaust cam slightly lower than the intake cam so that when you tension it it will line up. This is the way I did my timing belt as well as both my friends.

 

[DevilSperm]

exactly, all 70000 times ive changed my timing belt ive had to put the exhaust cam one tooth clockwise so when i put tension on it, they lined up perfectly...although, when the exhaust cam was one tooth off counterclockwise under tension, the car ran fine

 

[tsilover]

This is wrong. When you put tension on the belt it will move the exhaust cam counterclockwise slightly. That's why I said to set the exhaust cam slightly lower than the intake cam so that when you tension it it will line up. This is the way I did my timing belt as well as both my friends.

If the buffalo clips are still on the gears, as they should be, then the cams will not move. If the teeth are lined up, how will one cam move.

All I know is that my marks were lined up perfectly and the never moved when i tensioned the belt.

 

[Syndicate13]

If the buffalo clips are still on the gears, as they should be, then the cams will not move. If the teeth are lined up, how will one cam move.

All I know is that my marks were lined up perfectly and the never moved when i tensioned the belt.

And you must have an odd exhaust cam. This next passage is taken directly from the Haynes manual in the timing belt section.

"When the exhaust camshaft is released, it will tend to rotate one tooth in the counterclockwise direction. This shift must be taken into account when installing the timing belt onto the cam sprockets."

If you put the belt on with the marks lined up like in the pic above it will always be one tooth off. We tried several times on mine to have them line up perfectly and it would always be one tooth off on the exhaust cam after tensioning the belt. If you set it slightly below the intake mark, after tensioning it will line up perfectly.

 

[entropy138]

If the buffalo clips are still on the gears, as they should be, then the cams will not move. If the teeth are lined up, how will one cam move.

All I know is that my marks were lined up perfectly and the never moved when i tensioned the belt.

They aren't saying the cam will slip one tooth on the belt. When the belt tightens, it will pull on the side of the belt between the crank and the exh cam. Since the cam rotates easier then the crank, this will slightly rotate the cam.

They are called BINDER CLIPS.

 

[swing lo]

There should be 4 marks on the cam gears, they will al line up when they are adjusted correctly. They wil also line up with the top of the head.

Your crank and oil pump are fine. Those cams may not be.

Was that picture taken with full tension?

That picture was not under full tension. I hanven't even used that special timing belt tensioner tool yet either. So with all this feedback, I'm going to adjust the exhaust cam one tooth clockwise underneath the intake cam so it lines up perfectly with full tension.

 

[NosLaser]

Sometimes, and I've seen it more than once, the oil pump can be 180 degrees out and everything will look right, but you'll always be like a tooth or half a tooth off on the cam gears. Check to make sure you don't have the oil pump 180 degrees out of time.

Regards,

 

[swing lo]

So what your saying is that i need to take the belt off and turn the oil pump 180 degree's? I'm not understanding you correctly. If this means anything i have no balance shafts either.

 

[NosLaser]

So what your saying is that i need to take the belt off and turn the oil pump 180 degree's? I'm not understanding you correctly. If this means anything i have no balance shafts either.

No balance shafts doesn't make a difference in this instance. I would try rotating the oil pump 180 degrees and then see if the cam gears line up better. If they do, it's very likely that was your problem. It may be something else entirely, but I have seen it a few times where people go to line up the cam gears, and they just won't line up right...then checked the oil pump again and found it to be 180 degrees out. Worth looking into if nothing more than to eliminate it as a possibility.

Regards,

 

[DSMfânâtic]

Turn the oil pump clockwise maybe a quarter of a turn. If it roates back towards the timing mark (counterclockwise) it is properly alligned.

 

[NosLaser]

Turn the oil pump clockwise maybe a quarter of a turn. If it roates back towards the timing mark (counterclockwise) it is properly alligned.

He is correct.

Regards,

 

[pinknuggit]

The head work is the normal pressure test, magnaflux, acid bath, etc.

I guess i was the only one who caught this: how on earth are you going to magnaflux an aluminum head. :laugh:

 

[swing lo]

If i was not mistaken by a mechanic i know, he has a reputable backround and say's that aluminum can be magnufluxed. I'm not a machine shop guru, so i was stating facts about the work that was performed on my head; however, I was giving the person that asked me if i had any kind of machine work done a simple answere.

Your comment could lead me or anybody to beleive that you automatically assumed that i am a 20 year ASE mechanic or a machine shop specialist. This is probably why no body has responded to your child like comment yet. And I could be wrong about aluminum not being able to get magnufluxed, but that's not the point i'm trying to acheive here.

In a situation like this, you should try to educate a person if some misleading information has been said, not try to be humerous about an inaccurate statement. Do you really think people are going to waste their time and hop on your bandwagon of petty ridicule?

I could come up with a thousand reasons wh you wasted and took time out of your day to post that comment, but i won't do that because i already wasted enough time WRITING THIS, and i will not come down to your level ( which i probably already have by writing this).

Normally i wouldn't even think of wasting my time trying to get you to realize how petty you are, but i had to because it was the right day for it. Now if your intent was not of that nature that i apoloigze for anything i said that might offend you, and please don't take it personal, but if you are trying to be an a$# than i mean every bit.

I appreciate everybody's helpful thought's and suggestions though.

 

[!^3]

I guess i was the only one who caught this: how on earth are you going to magnaflux an aluminum head. :laugh:

Hmmmm...I had my head magnafluxed. Why wouldn't you be able to?