car was running good, then all of a sudden the car just jumped and quit.

[badabing33a]

so i was on the way home from the gas station, car was running good, then all of a sudden the car just jumped and quit. it still ran i think barely for a few secs but when i gave it gas, nothing happend at all. i was thinking i was going to spin a bearing so maybe thats it? it didnt overheat or nothing. not too long before this happend, my oil psi slowly dropped like it usually does but it hasnt done it in a week or so. so, what happend? the car jumped (vibrated, popped, etc.) Please help.

 

[badabing33a]

Yea it came on. I didnt notice it before. i thought it didnt come on. I just checked again and it came on for like 3 secs. maybe i didnt turn it to the on position. also when i have it in the on position, my fans turn on. whys that??

 

[rush2252]

if the car has been sitting w out running the fans shouldnt come on. Pull the ECU before you do anything else

 

[badabing33a]

I was thinking the ecu was telling the car that its hot so thats why they came on. But obviously, i havent ran the car since last night. So i pulled the kick panels. Now what? Im not sure how to get to it.

 

[rush2252]

Passenger side towards center console. Stick your head up in there. On the 2g there is like 4 connectors plugged into it. If yours isnt an auto the ECU should be the large gold colored metal box its approx 8inches by 5 inches w 20 or 30 wires running into it. It should be bolted securely near the firewall under the radio.

 

[badabing33a]

Yea i seen it but i was on the drivers side. Didnt really see how to pull it out. Not enough room. Ill pull it from the passenger side. When i get it out, what do i do?

 

[rush2252]

Heres a pic hope it helps!

 

[rush2252]

pull the cover theres 4 screws holding it on. search leaky caps (capacitors) theres a bunch of pics of what bad ECUS look like on here. You will notice melted circutry etc. and it will smell bad Its like looking for the obvious open it up take a peak im sure you will find what your looking for. FYI some guy named "steve" repairs the ECUs or just go to a local salvage if its bad

 

[rush2252]

heres a pic i got from another thread. This one has been repaired but notice the 5 slender black pieces on the upper side of the ECU ? those are the caps that leak. see the goo somebody didnt clean off the board after the repair?

 

[Rob10_99]

for your next question its been beat dead its Pretty much as easy to swap a 4G63 into a Honda as it is an NT car. Nothing is the same. Most of the NT are Chrysler built and share no similarities except cosmetics. The biggest issue is the NT motors are bass ackwards and it becomes costly trying to find somebody to do structural modifications that would allow you to swap directions of motor mounts and still have the car safe to drive. Most people who research this realize its always cheaper to find a donor turbo car rather than put the 4G into an NT car.. just my two cents.

WTH are you talking about, its a 1g, its almost completely the same.....

 

[badabing33a]

Well you can rule out the ecu. That looks real good. No goo, no smell, no burnt curcuits. Now ill check the spark and fuel. I tried to roll the car over and then pull a plug. It was dry. How else can i try it? and for the spark, do i just stick a screwdriver in the plug wire and then touch it on metal?

 

[rush2252]

yes the easiest way is to pull a spark plug and hold the Rubber boot and ground the end of the plug and crank it over. It should fire. I was for sure it was the ECU.

 

[rush2252]

WTH are you talking about, its a 1g, its almost completely the same.....

my bad haha. I thought he meant FI into the 2g NT ... clown me.

And yes if you wanted to put the FI into the NT on the 1gs they are almost identical. Not sure on the wiring I heard its really close. Isnt the 2.0DOHC in the NT some version of the 4g63? I know i used the valve cover and throttle body off one on my 2g

 

[badabing33a]

what about checking the fuel?

 

[rush2252]

the 2gs have a schrader valve on the rail with a cap that looks like a valve stem cap off a tire. You can remove it and push the valve in dont spray yourself in the face. If theres fuel it may not be enough pressure. Also if you have somebody help you can have the turn on the KEY and you should be able to hear the pump prime. IF it doesnt try this...








The fuel pump drive terminal (shown hooked-up) is located in the forward right corner of the engine compartment next to the battery.
NOTE : Some early 91 vehicles were produced without fuel pump check connectors. On these vehicles the fuel pump may be activated by the following procedure: Unhook the connector and apply a 12v+ source this should activate the fuel pump.

If your 1g doesnt have this connector try this

Remove the right side console cover.
Disconnect the MPI control relay.









Connect a 12 volt power source to the harness side of the MPI connector to activate the pump.

Apply battery voltage to the fuel pump drive connector to power the fuel pump.
Pinch the fuel hose to check that fuel pressure is felt.

NOTE : The fuel pump is mounted in the fuel tank and it operates submerged in fuel, therefore its operating sound is hard to hear without removing the fuel filler cap. PRESSURE TEST (DIAGNOSTIC CHECK) :

Reduce the internal pressure of the pipes and hoses by the following procedures.
A. Disconnect the fuel pump harness at the rear of the fuel tank.
B. Start and run the engine until it stalls. Turn OFF the ignition key.
C Disconnect the battery negative terminal.
D. Connect the fuel pump harness connector.

Disconnect the high pressure fuel hose at the delivery end. CAUTION : Cover the hose connector with a shop towel to prevent splashing of fuel caused by residual pressure in the fuel line.

install the fuel-pressure gauge to the delivery pipe (fuel rail).

>>>>> FOLLOW STEPS FROM PREVIOUS POST W PICS >>>THEN go ahead w remaining steps for PRESSURE CHECK

1. Disconnect the vacuum hose from the pressure regulator, and plug the hose end.

2 .Measure the fuel pressure at idle. Standard Value : 47-50 psi (250-270 kPa)

3.Measure the fuel pressure when the vacuum hose is connected to the pressure regulator. Standard Value : 38 psi (190 kPa).

If the results of the measurements made in steps 6 and 7 are not within the standard values, refer to the symptoms listed below to determine the probable cause and make the necessary repairs before re-testing.

Fuel pressure too low :
Clogged fuel filter---Replace
Fuel bleeds down to return hose---Replace the fuel pressure regulator

Low pump output pressure---Check for leak in-line or replace fuel pump
Fuel pressure too high :
Regulator stuck closed---Replace the fuel pressure regulator
Clogged or bent fuel return hose---repair hose

No difference with or without vacuum connected :
Non-responsive regulator---Replace the fuel pressure regulator
Plugged vacuum line or no source vacuum---replace line or repair vacuum source

Stop the engine and check for a change in fuel pressure readings. Pressure should hold for 5 minutes. If the gauge reading drops, observe the rate of drop. Determine the cause according to the following symptoms.

Fuel pressure drops slowly :
Injector leakage---Identify leaking injector and replace.
Regulator is leaking to return line---Confirm and replace regulator.
Check valve in the fuel pump is leaking---Replace the pump.

Fuel pressure drops immediately :
Regulator is leaking to return line---Confirm and replace regulator.
Check valve in the fuel pump is open---Replace the pump.
At the completion of testing, remove the test equipment and reconnect the high pressure fuel hose to the fuel rail. Torque value : 3-4 lb-ft (4-6 Nm)

 

[Rob10_99]

Yeah if you dont want to have to retime the CAS I would do that mpi box jump.
Any lighting issues or other problems with the car electrically?

To check fuel/spark with CAS, mark where its at, and unbolt it. You can spin it to fire the injectors and spark plugs. Its a good way to see if those systems are working if your having issues.

 

[badabing33a]

I got spark, i can smell the fuel, and i heard the compression when i turned the cam gears to see if the timing was correct which it was. Im stumped!

 

[rush2252]

You can also remove the CAS (crank angle sensor) W the Key on You should be able to turn it by hand and get plug fire and injector pulse. when you reinstall the CAS.. its located on the passenger side rear corner of the valve cover. Theres two ways it can go either right or 180 degrees rotated WRONG

 

[badabing33a]

What if i spun a bearing? Like i stated before, there was no knocking at all prior to this. I was however having oil psi problems. Theres a leak somewhere and when the oil psi dropped, i ckecked the oil and is was about a qt. low every time. I add a qt., oil psi came up, and still no knocking. A guy that did my tattoo (which i got an Eagle logo) said i spun a bearing, but it didnt make sence to me if there wasnt any knocking. There was no metal flakes in the oil when i drained it. I also took my valve cover off and everything looks beautiful up top. What about a head gasket? Would that cause my problems? The water temp has NEVER been an issue since i bought the talon. No smoke at all from the talon. The car ran perfectly fine untill this!

By the way Rush, THANKS ALOT for all your help! As well as you other dsmers.

 

[rush2252]

No a spun bearing wouldnt kill the spark and fuel. think basic. FUEL FIRE COMPRESSION. Dont get off that track. You must have all three to run and engine. If you dont have compression then lean towards bent valves. I bet it jumped time hence the loud popping before it died.

COMPRESSION PRESSURE (at 250 - 400 RPM):


Standard 1172 - 1551 kPa (170 - 225 psi)

Minimum 689 kPa (100 psi)

COMPRESSION PRESSURE DIFFERENCE OF ALL CYLINDER:


Maximum 25%

VACUUM:


Manifold 60 kPa (18 inches Hg)

If it doesnt have spark see if first it has fuel. If your getting fuel to the rail check the CAS it is what activates the injectors to pulse once fuel is deliever from the pump upto the rail. It also sends a signal to the coil in a pulsating configuration causing the coil to fire to the spark plug. The CAS is actually two sensors in one on the 1g its the crank angle sensor and the CAM sensor. If it goes bad it can kill both injector pulse and spark. Here is a troubleshooting flow

Check for fuel >> if no fuel refer to above post on how to manually activate fuel pump if OK >>>then check MPI relay near ECU if bad (doesnt click when key turned ON ) replace >> If this fixes fuel problem check spark

Check for fire by removing spark plugs >>> if no fire check CAS remove CAS and spin see if your getting spark >>also see if injectors are pulsig. IF bad check voltage to CAS (PM me for details or search) If voltage is good and you have injector pulse but no fire >> check power transistor located on fuel rail near coil packs ontop of injectors.

Keep in mind. You've ruled out ECU being bad. If your getting fuel when you turn on the key we can rule out the fuel pump. This leave the CAS and COIL pack or TRANSISTOR PACK its located up on the fuel rail next to the coil packs. Its got a several wires running into it. Its not going to be spun bearing keeping it from starting. If your lacking COMPRESSION FUEL or SPARK then one of the 3 is your problem. Theres about 4 things to check once you determine which of the 3 is missing from the equation. Sorry if this is confusing it would be easier if youd tell me what youve got as far as compression PER CYLINDER fuel spark etc.. then I will post one troubleshooting flow for you

I got spark, i can smell the fuel, and i heard the compression when i turned the cam gears to see if the timing was correct which it was. Im stumped!

You need to rent a compression tester. Hearing compression is one thing but having ONE dead cylinder is another.

Your narrowing it down your getting close. Either your lacking fuel pressure or you bent valves and lacking compression.

Because your lacking one of the three. If it has fuel fire and compression its going to run i PROMISE

I posted the specs on fuel pressure and compression in posts #46 and #52

 

[badabing33a]

Where can i get a compression tester? Sears? Im not sure if ours we have for the race cars will work or not. I turned it over to check the spark and it sounded like it wanted to stark even with the spark plug out. My friend stopped rolling it over ### he thought it was going to start up. Weird.

 

[rush2252]

Where can i get a compression tester? Sears? Im not sure if ours we have for the race cars will work or not. I turned it over to check the spark and it sounded like it wanted to stark even with the spark plug out. My friend stopped rolling it over ### he thought it was going to start up. Weird.

sorry it took so long for the response on problems like these when you know im helping out and i dont respond within say 8hours PM me none of these newbs know how to edit their thread topics to solved and people keep chiming in useless posts and they get bumped to the top while important issues like this and a few ive posted are lurking in pages 3 and 4 of the problem diagnosis and newbie forum

To answer your question the compression tester for race cars should work as long as the threaded adapter will thread into your head. i.e your race cars arent running briggs and stratton etc. You can also rent them from Oreillys Autozone pep boys Napa etc. Go search posts by user 2g 6 bolt swap. He has a thread that explains similar situation he has a 6bolt 1g swap into a 2g but his is turbo. any rate same issue. Its titled help wont start after injector swap or something like that. Read through it we posted input on the CAS and how to manually check for fuel fire w out having a second person helping. It involves removing the sensor and turning it by hand.

 

[badabing33a]

Our compression tester worked. I forgot there was an extension with it. Anyway, i got 165, 155, 150, 150. Thats good. Remember i couldn't do it when the car was warm either bc it kinda wont run . I have a friend to help check for fuel so whats the easiest way? Im starting to lean towards the fuel being my issue.

 

[badabing33a]

And why the hell are my fans turning on when i turn the key on?

 

[badabing33a]

the cas clicks.

 

[badabing33a]

i cant hear the fuel pump. i disconnected alot of stuff. would something i disconnected make it so i dont hear it??

My friends talon doesnt make the sound either. So maybe thats not it. Also, that clicking from the CAS, is the CAS on the Head or the Intake? ### something was ticking from the Intake. I hope it was the CAS.