car running rich and i dont know what to do

[talon1997420a]

Okay, i'd like to start off by saying hello to everybody. i am a new user to these forums and they have helped me out alot but i've searched this time and cant find anyone with any problems like mine. i am 17 years old and i have a 97 talon esi and i dont make much money so i am trying to fix problems on my car as i can afford to. well last week i hooked the computer up to my car because the check engine light has been on and it threw five codes just between the two o2 sensors. i dont remember exactly what codes they were but i bought and replaced the upstream sensor because that was all i could afford at the time. the car was running decent when i replaced it i just wanted to make sure everything was okay. well about two days after i replaced it the car started running extremely rich and it started loping i guess is what it sounds like at idle. i was told the car had cams when i bought it but it had never run like this til now. i know there was a code about the iat sensor and there was something about the egr valve too. well i took the car back to autozone after i replaced the o2 sensor and hooked the computer back up and it wouldnt read unless the car was running. i dont know but i'm hoping that something didnt happen to the computer. if anyone has any suggestions for me to try please help me out. it is greatly appreciated

 

[talon1997420a]

oh, and if it helps at all the car has a cold air intake, obx intake manifold, headers and exhaust, msd ignition, new plugs 3000 miles ago, i was told it had bigger cams in it when i bought it but im not sure if its true or not, and its a manual transmission

 

[twiggy333]

if loping at idling check your vacuum lines. but if it has cams its gonaa sound like its loping

 

[740 Turbo Brick]

If its running rich, one thing you could do is buy an Apexi S-AFC. They are supposed to help alot after a cam install on 420As, especially at idle. I got one for $50 from a 4G63 guy. Id find out what cams are on it. I have Crower 2s and they are stamped with the brand and a serial number on the ends and on the sides I believe. Also Id change both the o2s, and find out why its all the sudden loping so bad.

EDIT: I just though of this, my car will lope horribly when it runs lean, and as you richen it up it smooths out. Maybe the o2 has been bad for a long time?

 

[talon1997420a]

i think the o2 sensor has been bad for a while but i'm not completely sure. could that just mean that the computer may be relearning something? the guy i bought the car said the cams were a stage two cam but i dont remember the brand so i'll try to figure that out but he was honest with about everything else so i dont think he lied there.

 

[Fabian]

how exactly do you know that you're running rich? Do you have a wideband o2? When cams are installed in any car it lopes. You should replace the other o2 sensor and check for codes again and if there arent any you should be ok.

 

[talon1997420a]

i can tell its running rich because when it sits and idles for like ten seconds the whole car smells like raw gas and i noticed where i could usually get 250 miles before the gas gauge gets to half way before, i only got to 135 this time. the car has high miles and its not in the best of shape but i just dont understand why its all the sudden running like this after i changed a bad sensor. i was also wondering if it could be the fact that if one of the o2 sensors are brand new and the other one isnt reading at all if it could throw everthing off even more? i was also told to replace the iat sensor but its been broken ever since i got the car and it never really affected anything before.

 

[420aNEWB]

wtf you get 250 on half a tank.....thats allot....but the best way to find out if your actually running rich is to get a wideband a/f gauge and see where it reads at idle...

 

[cookmeup272]

Except for the fact that he said he is only 17 and his nickname isnt bill gates. Widebands cost $190+ and using it just to see if his N/A is running rich or not isn't the most cost effective way.

 

[talon1997420a]

i usually get 350-400 miles out of a full tank of gas depending on how i drive it. if i fill it up all the way it just seems like from half down to empty on the fuel gauge goes by so much faster than the first half. i work at the local pizza hut and after paying my bills i usually have less than a hundred bucks to spend on gas and everything else for two weeks so a wideband a/f gauge is out of the question for me right now. i'm gonna try within the next week to maybe just block off the egr valve and replace the other o2 sensor and hopefully that will help. i may also start looking for a used safc if anyone thinks it'll help

 

[cookmeup272]

I bought mine for a 100 bucks from a guy on here. You can find them cheaper.

 

[Fotowntalon]

go to autozone and get it rechecked and post us the codes. i believe its 0172 for running rich, and either one of your 02 sensors can cause this, if both were bad and you only replaced one, that could be your problem. There are other reasons for smelling gas, such as a leak in your EVAP system, but before I go assuming, get your codes checked again, after all its free

 

[talon1997420a]

okay, i just went to autozone and hooked the car up to the computer like you said and there were twelve codes to start. there were codes about a small and a large emissions leak but i think the small leak was because of the gas cap and i was messing around with vacuum lines today trying to figure out where the leak was so i think that explains the large leak. there were several codes about both o2 sensors and still the one about the iat sensor because i looked and the plastic part of the sensor is broken off on the car. well we erased all the codes, and i started the car and let it run for a couple minutes and then shut it back off and the only code this time was the iat sensor. so tomorrow after i can get to the bank i'm gonna go get a new sensor and replace it and see what happens. i just dont understand how the car can smell like its running so rich all the sudden and i notice a drop in mpg and it just be the iat sensor?

 

[talon187]

Change the other 02 sensor the other sensor could fix a problem or two. i would invest in a hanes manual

 

[dsm9]

def. replace the sensor after the cat. i broke mine putting on my new exhaust and i thought it would be ok to run without it but it ran like shit. so i replaced it and it runs 100% better and gas milage is back up again.

 

[RoninEclipse2G]

I know that you hadn't mentioned any misfire codes, but I'd pull the plugs and check them if I were you. If the PO used some exotic plug it could be causing some issues, 420a's are known for not liking platinum and irridium plugs. Just look for signs of fouling, wetness or other issues

Another common problem for running excessively rich and nasty loping is an air bubble in the coolant. It gets trapped in the water neck and falses out the CTS, causing the car to tun in warmup mode CONSTANTLY and doesn't necessarily cause a CEL (in fact it rarely pulls a CEL) if there's no air bubble then checking the CTS manually may be in order. Check it cold with a multimeter and hot in a pot of boiling water.

 

[dsmpowerjake]

just got a 96 rs having egr probs what to do?

 

[Fotowntalon]

step 1: search, this has been covered a ton of times recently.


but because i am a nice guy, basically either replace it or remove it and block it off.

 

[Kyle97-clipse]

Why would you even post that question in this thread???