calling all 420a n/t owners...

[green95hrcgs]

Originally posted by esiman
i have a 1995 esi talon and i tell u what i would not get another engine its a great engine i hear every one out there (non turbos are not fast ) i tell u what my talon is puting out 230hp and that has been tested i have raced with my bubbys 96 tsi and i see no difference really with a little mods to the esi u can be just as fast !!!!!!!!

I fail to see, by looking at your mod list how you can be putting out 230hp with an N/T. I am not hating, I just read what you said and it makes no sense to me. There are turbo guys that are not even putting out 230hp in HRC's stage 2 kit.
I see NO way how you can hang with a 4G63 equipped car with the mods you have listed.

I agree that the 420A is a great engine, but realistically you have to do a LOT ( i.e. turbo or nitrous ) to make it fast.

There are a number of guys over at 2gnt.com doing all motor stuff and are having a hard time getting even 200hp at the wheels. Which with a standard 15% loss through the drivetrain, you claim to have.

Just my thoughts

 

[Redmachine]

FLAME ON!!!!

 

[green95hrcgs]

Not trying to flame, just trying to be truthful. It takes a LOT of money to make the 420A fast and you have to be realistic about it thats all. It is easier to make more power out of the 4G63 than the 420A.

I think its because everyone with a 420A saying that its easy to make hp and making claims to this and that, that cause the flame wars between the 4G63 and 420A camps.

420A is a great motor, but more work has to be put into them to make them fast, and as fast as other cars. Thats all.

 

[helliviknow]

i like my 420a. I actually have one good use for it. My grandpa was dogging on me for having a "###" car one day so i lifted up the hood and showed him the chrysler emblems all over the engine... so even if its not turbocharged an all that good stuff at least i can use it to get a old veteran off my back... hah

 

[vertiay]

turbo's are nice if your going in a straight line cause thats all they are good for, drag racing. on an autocross or road course a done up non turbo will decimate a turbo.

 

[ninjai_ruken]

Ok, Here is what I have seen from experience. It does take a lot of money to make the 420A Kick the shit outta GST or GSX my friend Dropped 15,500$ into his 420A another person in our club has put about 4K into his GST My friends GS kicks the shit outta every GST or GSX he comes across (Of course there is a big difference in money spent on the 2 cars i know you could take two GST's put 4k into one and around 15k into the other the one with more money spent on the car will win) when they ask why he spent all that money on a GS when he could have just bought a GST or a GSX he says "So when you guys start talking shit about the 420A I can shut you the hell up" .... any ways it must be nice to make 75K a year in a state were a 4 bedroom house 2 bath is only 450 a month in rent When ever I need a loan I go to him in
stead of the bank....:laugh: banks suck :thumbdown

 

[RAVAGER576]

What stage 2 kit are you referring too? Stage 2 will at LEAST give you 230hp ... Im running lower 250 with my HRC kit. Never doubt your engines guys, if the turbo guys didnt have their turbos they would be slower or equal to that civic you smoked. All they got is the turbo aside from the AWDealies. Bolt a turbo on our rides and we eat turbos. They are only one second quicker with both stock. One second isnt too much considering Im blowing 4gs away by a second and some now.

You want the best results go with a kit. Otherwise your going to be wrestling with working on getting your N/T to keep up with all turbo and supercharged rides out there. I believe the fastest and most driveable cars in the world are turbos.

If your also worried about insurance then this is the way too, my insurance company doesnt even know I have a turbo. Your going to spend just a little bit more than if you had bought a turbo but your going to be considerably faster as well. I feel it was a good trade. Besides you'd pay out the ass on parts being as we're in America not Japan and our parts are alot more readily available considering all the cars driving around with similar internals. It was a smart move to buy that 420a. Ride on my N/T pals. 420a POWER!

PS : If you want the dough to get the kit then do what I did. Go to your bank who has your loan and ask for 3k for "repairs". They tacked mine on to my loan and refinanced so now Im paying a bit more for a quick ass little number. Just an idea. Peace people!

 

[Redmachine]

Originally posted by RAVAGER576
. Ride on my N/T pals. 420a POWER!

Here here!!!!!

 

[Thamobster15781]

yeah u cant really listen to what everyone says........i have a 98 eclipse gs turned into a t3t4 machine.....its got all the internals and gadgets but i ran mine at a 13.8 on only 13lbs of boost...and thats spinning through 1st and 2nd gear....i would def agree though that awd is the way to go for traction but making a 420a a fast car isnt out of the question...i know a kid down at the street races who has a gs turboed and hes spanking evos...stis...and cobras...thanks to his limited slip and those new yokohama radials..does it cost a little more...maybe ...but hey the insurance is cheaper...

 

[uh-oh]

Im going to make this a very simple battle...Im a member to a crew that is a mix of 1g awd/fwd, allot of 2gnts, and a few 2g FWD...i have both a all motor 95 talon and a boosted one...the 4g63 is a very good motor to start with and can handle allot of power with stock internals with the right tuning (and yes i have owned a 92 TSI AWD up to 2 months ago)..but the problem with the 4g63 is that it is a old design..not making it bad just different...my boosted 420a makes a hell of allot more torque then my 4g63 did on the same amount of boost (BTW both cars running 18g turbos)...but the 4g63 had a tendency to be a little more easily managable under boost that my 420a (both cars at ~22psi)...it costed more to get my 420a running to this level but it is a faster car...i guarantee to all who believe that the 420a isnt a capable powerplant i welcome you to come to Fort Lauderdale, Fl and i will match your turbo size (whether it be a 14b, 16g, or 18g bc thats all i have) and the same amount of boost and we will see what happens...we have run this test day in and day out in my crew and the 420a ALWAYS wins...this doesnt mean the 420a is a better motor just that due to its gearing and torque output for the kind of racing we do (0- ~130-140) the 420a does outperform the 4g63....now to all the happy 420a owners out there also remember its going to cost about an extra $1300-$1600 to be at this point but it can be done

 

[GSGoinFast]

Im going to make this a very simple battle...Im a member to a crew that is a mix of 1g awd/fwd, allot of 2gnts, and a few 2g FWD...i have both a all motor 95 talon and a boosted one...the 4g63 is a very good motor to start with and can handle allot of power with stock internals with the right tuning (and yes i have owned a 92 TSI AWD up to 2 months ago)..but the problem with the 4g63 is that it is a old design..not making it bad just different...my boosted 420a makes a hell of allot more torque then my 4g63 did on the same amount of boost (BTW both cars running 18g turbos)...but the 4g63 had a tendency to be a little more easily managable under boost that my 420a (both cars at ~22psi)...it costed more to get my 420a running to this level but it is a faster car...i guarantee to all who believe that the 420a isnt a capable powerplant i welcome you to come to Fort Lauderdale, Fl and i will match your turbo size (whether it be a 14b, 16g, or 18g bc thats all i have) and the same amount of boost and we will see what happens...we have run this test day in and day out in my crew and the 420a ALWAYS wins...this doesnt mean the 420a is a better motor just that due to its gearing and torque output for the kind of racing we do (0- ~130-140) the 420a does outperform the 4g63....now to all the happy 420a owners out there also remember its going to cost about an extra $1300-$1600 to be at this point but it can be done

$1300-$1600 to run 22psi of boost???

 

[miamieclipse]

Well you figure that:

97 420a 4k
97 4g63 6k

So theres 2k difference plus 1.3-1.6k so gives you around 3300-3600 for turbo kit and supporting mods.

Please correct me if this isn't what you meant uh-oh

PS Uh-oh where in Coral Springs are you? I am in miami lakes but i go to school in ft. lauderdale and i know alot of ppl that live in coral springs....

 

[GSGoinFast]

Well you figure that:

97 420a 4k
97 4g63 6k

So theres 2k difference plus 1.3-1.6k so gives you around 3300-3600 for turbo kit and supporting mods.

Please correct me if this isn't what you meant uh-oh

PS Uh-oh where in Coral Springs are you? I am in miami lakes but i go to school in ft. lauderdale and i know alot of ppl that live in coral springs....

wtf a 97 4g63 is $6k by you? damn man a 98 GS-T is $13k here

 

[Denji]

Thanks for responding.... at least i know im not crazy by saying the engine has potential (but like i said before not as much as a 4g63)

Its comforting to know that the engine could run middle to low 15's with the basic mods i lisited before (hopefully if Eclipse96Ryder is right) Im still in high school and totally dedicated to my eclipse. I know this is beginning to sound like the regular cliche of young eclipse oweners but i go to school and work around 25 hours a week. All the money i get goes into the car and soon will have all the insurance and payments payed off. (had the car 3-4 months)

One thing i got to say is i couldnt offord the insurance on the 4g63t 2nd gen or i would have got one. I have a 95 420a and proud of it. Its a 5spd (of course) and im looknig to save up and put the basic bolt-ons and then think about a turbo in a year or so. Im thinking about a cai, header, straightpipe, stage 2 or 3 cams (not sure what make, havent done research yet) and some SIMPLE weight reduction. Im not looking to lose 400 pounds or whatever but the stock seats and backseat along with spare tire, jack and a few other non essensials will be gone.

Im not looking for the 500 whp beasts that seem to be the norm on this site but a simple car i can bring to the track and post some good times with (for a n/t)

thanks for all the support, just like everything else you gotta start young and be persistant to be really good!!!

Welcome to dsmtuners!

I used to have a 1996 eclipse rs and i sold it, then i bought a 1996 talon tsi awd, almost identical miles and the insurance difference was 5 dollars a month becuase of the fact that it is an eagle. If you like your 420a thats totally understandable, i loved mine and i am glad i didnt own my turbo talon as my first car. I had that rs eclipse for 4 1/2 years, it never gave me much trouble (except the clutch went out once). I fixed it up as much as i could with bolt-ons and it was decent.(ran 16 flat at the track) The non turbos are much more forgiving when it comes to maintenance so i think it was a great car to start with to learn basics about fixing up cars and engine maintenance. Have fun with it! i can never really down a non turbo because i truly loved that car, and i know how you feel becuase i used to get pissed too. Just dont let insurance be a reason not to get a 4g63, talons are much cheaper on insurance than the eclipse counterpart, and dont worry, if you ever decide you do want a 4g63, you can always sell your car later so dont stress!

 

[Denji]

^wow, my post looks like im part of a support group^

 

[Thusany33]

i own both a honda and a 1999 eclipse gs... the problem is that hondas ALL weigh less then the eclipse' and secondly the only thing a 420a n/t will beat is a stock ass civic.... anything with vtec civic ex or civic si will most likely give u a run for ur money. The power to weight ratio in hondas is jus ridiculous... and ive seen an integra ls with a 30 shot demolish a 98 eclipse gs with a 35 shot... both cars lightly modded along with the nitrous... theres no comparing hondas to dsm... as long as the dsm is non turbo hondas will 8 out of 10 times beat the dsm in a heads up race sorry to say it...

 

[RHui_BC]

Damn, why does this topic always come up and a firefight breaks out

It's all about personal preference... 420A vs 4G63, cost vs worth... etc..etc..

I couldn't afford a 4G63 at the time, nor afford to maintain it if it ever went crankwalk, cause in Canada,BC we don't have shops like RRE.

I like my 420A, but im not gonna boast any HP claims cause I got nothing to prove it. When it's done, and tuned and all that stuff, I'll post. I'll post the costs of doing it and what not so everyone can see and learn from my mistakes. But, it's not cheap, that's for sure. Not as easy as bolt on mods on a 4G63 cause theres just sooo much more to do in a 2.0L 420A nt. The parts aren't as widely avaiable for the 420A, there aren't as many developers/manufactures for this car.... and it doesn't help that our engine is now obsolete.

Anyhow... MAYBE the SRT-4 2.4L 420A would be a closer comparisson to the 4G63. But thats not even close to the 2.0L 420A.

Can't we all just get along? I respect anyone who loves their car and wants to join our community, but this doesn't help.

 

[GSGoinFast]

i own both a honda and a 1999 eclipse gs... the problem is that hondas ALL weigh less then the eclipse' and secondly the only thing a 420a n/t will beat is a stock ass civic.... anything with vtec civic ex or civic si will most likely give u a run for ur money. The power to weight ratio in hondas is jus ridiculous... and ive seen an integra ls with a 30 shot demolish a 98 eclipse gs with a 35 shot... both cars lightly modded along with the nitrous... theres no comparing hondas to dsm... as long as the dsm is non turbo hondas will 8 out of 10 times beat the dsm in a heads up race sorry to say it...

i have yet to loose to ANY honda, and ive raced my fair share of civics, without the spray. i think you got it backwards, 8 out of 10 times the dsm will win... and why did you bring this back to life?

 

[Demagosos]

Damn, why does this topic always come up and a firefight breaks out

It's all about personal preference... 420A vs 4G63, cost vs worth... etc..etc..

Can't we all just get along? I respect anyone who loves their car and wants to join our community, but this doesn't help.

seriously....this is like the 100th thread on what engine is better....no one is going to change their mind on what engine they think is better so i say give it a rest, and lets all be friends

 

[dr1665]

seriously....this is like the 100th thread on what engine is better....no one is going to change their mind on what engine they think is better so i say give it a rest, and lets all be friends

Yeah. I'll be sure to get a dyno slip before I turbo the car this spring so you guys can see what the upper limits of all motor tuning on stock displacement 420a are once and for all. If I feel like getting the LSD before the turbo is in, I'll track her out and see how deep into the 14s I can get. 15.0 has been done, and I've got a bit more done to Daisy than Daniel has to his car. Not to mention the last couple little tricks I still have up my all motor sleeves.

I didn't do all this all motor crap for nothing. I want to see what she does too...

EDIT:
And the guy who says all motor will clean up in autoX versus a turbo car obviously doesn't know about a little guy they call the "Disco Potato." Not the turbo for me, but damn, do I want to drive one....