Buying a 2g Eclipse this weekend, upgrade path

[Disturbance]

I'm going to pick up a 98 2g Eclipse GST this weekend. It is bone stock with 180 thousand miles. I have done tons of research on DSMs and spent countless hours compiling an upgrade path list. Im going to be shooting for around 400 hp and just wanted to post up my list of upgrades and get everyones opinion on these parts.

First of all the motor rebuild:
ARP head studs
Cometic head gasket
Topline complete gasket kit
Balance shaft eliminator kit
4G63 timing belt
Balancer tensioner pulley
Crank shaft timing trigger plate
Timing belt idler pulley
Timing belt tensioner adjuster
Turbo to manifold gasket
Manley forged pistons 8.5:1
Manley H beam steel rods
ACL tri metal rod and main bearing
Manley race series forged crankshaft 88mm
This will be my first motor rebuild, I built this list up reading tons of posts on this site. Is there anything anyone thinks i do or dont need or opinions on parts please share with me.

Upgrades after the motor rebuild:
Injen intake
Fuel pressure, air fuel ratio, boost, EGT gauges
Greddy type R BOV recirrculated
Turbo smart manual boost control
DN performance tubular header
Walbro 255 fuel pump
Import Evolution IEFPRSS fuel regulator kit
Evo III 16g turbo
Evo III o2 housing
2g turbo install kit with SS oil lines
ACT 2600 clutch
Apexi afc II neo fuel managment
Precision turbo 880cc injectors
Extreme race FMIC
ACT xact flywheel
RRE race down pipe w/ cat
Apexi n1 cat back
AEM high flow fuel rail
DSMlink
Again, anything i do or dont need or what would be better please share with me.
Thank you for any help that anyone can give me.

 

[kbiker76]

Looks like a solid list, forged internals are a little overkill for a 16g but hey at least you have room to grow into a bigger turbo if you feel the need!

I don't think you would need the AEM fuel rail correct me if I am wrong but I thought I read somewhere that it doesn't flow much different than stock? (I think I read this somewhere but very well could be wrong)

Drop the SAFC and just pick up the link if your spending this much money already why not just pony up the extra couple hundred for a good tuning system instead of just a fuel management system? Those 880's are too big for the SAFC anyway I do believe.

 

[ed1380]

Ditch the Neo and the fuel rail. Also you might want to think about eliminating the balance shaft belt and tensioner. Everything else looks good

 

[twisted954]

First of all the motor rebuild: First of all motor REPLACE with 6 bolt....rebuilding the 7 bolt will be an effort of epic mega fail...while the 98 does use the later non integrated thrust, the oil squirters tend to fail and bleed oil pressure due to their general crappiness to put it technical

ARP head studs - fine
Cometic head gasket - if you prefer to replace head gaskets every other oil change, then yes...choose cometic...otherwise go OEM for 400 using the MLS and you should be fine
Topline complete gasket kit - get OEM gasket set or one by one the OEM otherwise topline complete gasket kit will make oil changes easier by allowing oil to seep from every gasket point in your vehicle
Balance shaft eliminator kit - yes...good idea...however if you are asking for someone to validate this, please do not attempt to install yourself...the bearing flip method is definitely not something you want to wing via vfaq and some pictures
4G63 timing belt - OEM??????
Balancer tensioner pulley - yes, you're going to need one of those
Crank shaft timing trigger plate - great if you are planning on doing the 6 bolt swap
Timing belt idler pulley - again...comes in real handy if you like your timing to be all timed up and stuff
Timing belt tensioner adjuster - good idea here too
Turbo to manifold gasket - yes
Manley forged pistons 8.5:1 - well they aren't horrible but kind of meh...and for the price, i would just say get some wisecos
Manley H beam steel rods - good rod for price
ACL tri metal rod and main bearing- yes...good bearings
Manley race series forged crankshaft 88mm - use your OEM crank and do NOT grind on it...find one that can just be micro polished

This will be my first motor rebuild, I built this list up reading tons of posts on this site. Is there anything anyone thinks i do or dont need or opinions on parts please share with me.

NOW that being said...400hp can be easily done on E85 on a stock 6 bolt...save the money, MAYBE one by one some headstuds...BUT no NEED to rebuild a motor

Upgrades after the motor rebuild:
Injen intake - do they still make those?
Fuel pressure, air fuel ratio, boost, EGT gauges - egt is super cool if you know smoky or the bandit circa 1977 however EGT's are irrelevant as widebands are 10 times more accurate and give you actual iinformation...EGTs only tell you something is mysteriously hot...who knows why tho?
Greddy type R BOV recirrculated - it will work but meh and will not hold more than 28 lbs of boost before fluttering
Turbo smart manual boost control - meh...get the new grimmspeed with the positive click feature...much nicer
DN performance tubular header - woa...work okay...you must order now...and in 4 years, you should see it show up...when it does, it will work tho...try to find one used to avoid your grandkids receiving that shipment
Walbro 255 fuel pump - yes...plenty of pump there...do NOT allow anyone to tell you different
Import Evolution IEFPRSS fuel regulator kit - never heard of them...get MAP with AEM 188 and some change...all you need
Evo III 16g turbo - mmmmmm probably wont quite make 400hp...i know a couple of people are running modified stock frame mitsu turbos on MAP billet wheels...i think they refer to them as EF1's...much akin to say something like a FP 68HTA but you can probably get one sometime before the DNP box shows up...if you get the 68hta...well...probably will show up at the same time...they dont list them on the site, but you should be able to give them a jingle and get one squared away
Evo III o2 housing - not worth the hassel...this was cool in 1995...downpipe would require modifying to clear your block/oil pan OR you need to buy a downpipe that is slotted and there are only a couple...and im not sure if they are even in production anymore
2g turbo install kit with SS oil lines - yes
ACT 2600 clutch - yes
Apexi afc II neo fuel managment - for the price of one of those would cost about the same as dsmlink v3 lite...better tuning flexability...very user friendly...can get rid of random misfire error which you will love when you do the swap
Precision turbo 880cc injectors - FIC injectors...nuff said...PTE are a LITTLE cheaper but nowhere near as good as the FIC Hi z
Extreme race FMIC - dont know what this is
ACT xact flywheel - yes
RRE race down pipe w/ cat - sure I guess...not sure if its necessary tho
Apexi n1 cat back - sure
AEM high flow fuel rail - not necessary for your goals at all....oem will be fine

 

[GsXdSmKingGsX]

You have DSMlink and safc on the same list, firstly.

Secondly, you will never have the need for an upgraded fuel rail on a 16g build

Thirdly, if you are building this and DDing it too, you should drop the tubular exhaust mani. The 2g of FP exhaust manifold are more for that due to them not cracking ass easily.

Otherwise the rest looks pretty good. Your intake really doesnt matter because most of them are the same. Its just a metal replica of your rubber stocker. And if you are going to do head studs and a cosmetic hg then look into main studs too. You can knock all 3 of those out at the same time.

Thats just my opinion. Happy DSMing and welcome.

 

[Disturbance]

Thank you for all the info everyone! Couple things, i understand the difference between the 6 bolt 7 bolt motors and the 7 bolt problems. Only reason i didnt really want to do the 6 bolt swap is that since i have never done an engine rebuild of any kind i didnt know if the 6 bolt would bolt right up ( all the electronics and everything ) I dont have tons of experience with internal motor work or anything like that. Is the 7 bolt really that bad to where i would be pretty much wasting my money rebuilding it with all forged internals? The break down of my whole parts list really helped twisted954, great info to know before diving into this. I will ditch the Apexi fuel mangement and go with DSMlink, ditch the fuel rail, ditch the header, add a wideband and go with the oem gaskets. With the evo III o2 housing, the only reason i had that is i thought the evo III turbo had to be paired with it. And last i dont need to go with a forged crankshaft? im doing forged internals now for bigger upgrades in the future, rather do it now than regret it later!

 

[billyt]

If your going to spend that much money on the motor rebuild...do it to a 6 bolt. Yes it bolts right up to your 2g with some slight modification to the engine mount located in the driver side (timing belt side). You can find a 6 bolt pretty cheap (i picked mine up for $300...super cheap ), then rebuild it and last swap it. RRE and Magnus motorsports explain how to do the swap. You can do the Gates racing timing belt with kevlar (blue belt). You can do the Cometic full Gasket kit, Dont forget to change the oil pump!!! REALLY IMPORTANT!!! OIL PUMP!!

I noticed you are putting a lot on the block...any plans for the head?? maybe I missed it..its late....

Anyways Good Luck, I'm in the middle of my build too =) FML

 

[Disturbance]

yeah i just read a full step by step write up how to swap it and it doesnt seem hard at all considering how much better of an engine the 6 bolt is. Thats probably the route i will go still keeping all the forged internal upgrades just for the 6 bolt. Where did you pick yours up from?

so with the 6 bolt swap, i have heard to use 2g pistons with 1g rods. Are 2g pistons the only internal parts i should use performance wise in a 6 bolt? And is there anything else on my parts list that i should stick with from a 2g to go on the 6 bolt? ( i know i would need 6 bolt gaskets, belts, etc.. )

 

[billyt]

Off a guys from Craigslist.org thats where I got the shell as well crazy cheap off another guy who posted there too... I had the non turbo eclipse before (420a 5 speed) all hooked up except for the motor with minor upgrades but non turbo. Sold it when I got the other motor and shell and doing it up nice this time around....

 

[Disturbance]

Off a guys from Craigslist.org thats where I got the shell as well crazy cheap off another guy who posted there too... I had the non turbo eclipse before (420a 5 speed) all hooked up except for the motor with minor upgrades but non turbo. Sold it when I got the other motor and shell and doing it up nice this time around....

good deal! good luck with the new set up! i cant wait to get mine and start tearing it down and rebuilding it right

 

[billyt]

good deal! good luck with the new set up! i cant wait to get mine and start tearing it down and rebuilding it right

Thanks! you too... they are a lot of fun!

 

[Disturbance]

Im reading over this step by step swap http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/152329-how-do-6-bolt-swap-what-you-need.html and everything looks good except one thing.. when hooking up the cam and crank angle sensors from this site RRE Instructions everything is fine until it comes to setting the base time. Like i said i have never done major engine work and do not own a timing light or data logger or have any idea on how to time a car. my question is can i just hook up the sensors and skip the timing part and have a shop do the timing? if so will the car even start for me to be able to drive it to a shop without it being timed first?

 

[danielbo91]

Theres nothing wrong with a 7 bolt biild ethier you have to make sure everything it set to spec, about crank walk thats a myth.. but if a motor walk and you rebuild them yes it can walk againg, but if that engine has 180k miles them changes it wont walk why because it would have walk right before 20k miles, theres also mod in here whos running a build 7 bolt and hes pushing over 600 whp. So i would rebuild that 7 bolt but if up too you. Make sure if you do the balance shaft elimination, to port your oil filter hoising you dont want too much oil flowing arond the botton end. Also if i was you i would get a south bend clutch kit they less harsh them the act 2600 and also south bend clutches are better than act's.
As for you head i dont see you plan doing any mod well you should if planning pushing 400hp get some hks 264 272 combo or some kelfords 272 272, and springs that the depends on you also i would trow some adjustables cam gears.

This cars need to be timing perfect or you will bent some vales so, make sure you do some more reading on doing the 6 bolt swap. Note a shop will charge you a good amount of money to do the 1g cam sensor. Read on magnus they have a adapter for the 1g cam sensor on 2g

 

[Disturbance]

so if the 7 bolt motor in this 98 has never had crank walk or been rebuilt and i rebuild it with all forged internals and everything i shouldnt have to worry about crank walk? i would like to to just rebuild and mod the 7 bolt so i dont have to worry about the whole re wiring and timing with the swap.

 

[mchustle]

I'm personally partial to the 6bolt, but you shouldn't have to worry about crankwalk like stated above it is so rare it is basically a myth. I think something like 3% walk amd as you know there are alot of 2gs so the number is small. If you go 6 bolt it is very easy you can use your dsmlink to ground the timing connector and you can get a timing light for like $20. My gst was the first motor I rebuilt and I did the 6bolt swap by myself with that writeup. Then I did a 6bolt in my buddies 97gsx for him and they are both doing fine, and I didnt waste money on the stupid connector rre and Magnus sell but if your not comfortable with the wiring you can just buy that connector. You can do like me 6bolt block 7bolt head or like we did my buddies and full 6bolt. If you do the full 6bolt you have one extra step which is either tapping the intake mani for the 2g map or just teeing into the brake booster vac line for it like I did his. Now if you do the 6bolt with forged internals you won't have to worry about the 2g pistons thing that is mainly for people doing oem rebuilds. Hope this helps and let me know if you need any help with anything else, like I Said i and many other have done the swap and I've never looked back. Also just so you know once you have dsmlink congrats you now have a logger also .

 

[95talongirl]

you DON'T NEED A 6 bolt.

That crap about the 7 bolt being junk is so blown out of proportion. Think about this little tidbit for a second: How many miles are on the current engine in the car? 180k? And it's still running! Hmm.... doesn't seem like a "junk" engine to me.

It should've crankwalked AT LEAST 8 times by now according to the internets.

Want to hear something even more funny? A friend of mine put a nice hole in the 6-bolt he was running. I thought they were indestructible? Oh yeah, that's right.. it's still an internal combustion engine and like all of them; they can fail..

Point it... you'll be fine with a 7-bolt. Especially on a 16g. Just take your time with he rebuild and make sure things are done correctly and you'll be ok.

Also.. Cometic HG's. There's nothing wrong with these either... if it is installed correctly. Both surfaces MUST be prepared for it, and Cometic states right in the instructions to install DRY. I've noticed a trend that in those who have experienced multiple Cometic failures, they were installing them with the use of something like a copper spray. That's not installing it dry.

 

[GsXdSmKingGsX]

Ok. I have personally owned six 7-bolt DSM's and not one has crankwalked. That shit barely happened anyways, let alone now. Build your 7-bolt and enjoy it. Alot of people on here dont really know anything or push an opinion that some "expert DSMer they know"'s opinion.

Keep your 7-bolt and build around it. Listen to the proven members that have been around the site for a while. aka. a few years. If you have any questions you can PM me too.

 

[dsmvenge]

topline gaskets= yuck

 

[ed1380]

I'm personally partial to the 6bolt, but you shouldn't have to worry about crankwalk like stated above it is so rare it is basically a myth. I think something like 3% walk amd as you know there are alot of 2gs so the number is small. If you go 6 bolt it is very easy you can use your dsmlink to ground the timing connector and you can get a timing light for like $20. My gst was the first motor I rebuilt and I did the 6bolt swap by myself with that writeup. Then I did a 6bolt in my buddies 97gsx for him and they are both doing fine, and I didnt waste money on the stupid connector rre and Magnus sell but if your not comfortable with the wiring you can just buy that connector. You can do like me 6bolt block 7bolt head or like we did my buddies and full 6bolt. If you do the full 6bolt you have one extra step which is either tapping the intake mani for the 2g map or just teeing into the brake booster vac line for it like I did his. Now if you do the 6bolt with forged internals you won't have to worry about the 2g pistons thing that is mainly for people doing oem rebuilds. Hope this helps and let me know if you need any help with anything else, like I Said i and many other have done the swap and I've never looked back. Also just so you know once you have dsmlink congrats you now have a logger also .

On a 1g chassis you can use a timing light. The 2g don't have the plug on the harness to do it.

Also since its a 98 don't get dsmlink. It already has a programmable ecu. Just Google ceddymod for everything you would want to know about it. And its 3x cheaper.

Also a felpro composite headgasket with some arp studs will be plenty.

While you're still buying parts grab a crank from a 7 bolt 4g64 and stroker pistons. You'll never want to go back to a 2.0

 

[BIGBLAZE79]

I rebuilt my 97 block, kept the oil squirters and used a cut crank and it holds up fine to 27Psi abuse. 20K miles so far with no issues. It all depends on if you get the block and crank machined properly. I had the crank rods and main journals turned, nitrided then polished. The block was bored, honed, decked and main caps alighned honed. I trapped 118.75Mph in the quarter with full interior street car so it's puttin down some decent power.

 

[turboboy4]

Not sure why you are worried about building the engine at this point anyway?? These engines will take some abuse if you have a good tune and supporting mods. Look at my mod list and the power my car is handling, this is on a completely stock bottom end with 118K miles

And yes "Twisted954" you are a tool and going on and on about the crankwalk is bull crap. Yes there were engines that did it, but the number of engines that stayed together out number the engines that walked.

 

[ed1380]

I think everyone just needs to read carefully before they start to flame others. Twisted initially started talking about CW but he was also arguing the point of failed oil nozzles, and at one point he said NO CW. Everyone just needs to read and stop flaming . As for the 2g nozzles malfunctioning- I've had that happen first hand.

 

[mchustle]

On a 1g chassis you can use a timing light. The 2g don't have the plug on the harness to do it.

Also since its a 98 don't get dsmlink. It already has a programmable ecu. Just Google ceddymod for everything you would want to know about it. And its 3x cheaper.

Also a felpro composite headgasket with some arp studs will be plenty.

While you're still buying parts grab a crank from a 7 bolt 4g64 and stroker pistons. You'll never want to go back to a 2.0

Actually on a 95 and some 96 they do have the timing connector on the firewall, and I know this for a fact because I have one.

I have looked into ceddy mods but even though it's the cheaper route I think link is better for noobies, myself included, and more user friendly. But that's IMO so take it for what it's worth .

I agree with the stroker statement though. I can't wait to start mine only difference is I'm using a 64 block.

 

[97gst_spyder]

7-bolts are fine. I've ran my car dry both oil (oil filter came loose) and coolant (blew a oil cooler hose), no issues. Perfect compression, no blow by, no shavings, no tick, nothing at all............

 

[M4Dboost]

Ive had no issues with my 98, 145k on it and the previous owner/original owner never changed the timing belt and components. Always changed my oil before it even though about turning a darker shade though.

I was the same way with my 6bolt swapped gst, but now I have 1st gen cams with chunks taken out of the lobes :/