building custom strut bar, unsure on tube dia to use

['97boostinGST]

Can we get some pictures of the process?
I'd be highly interested, depending on price since your location is Europe I doubt shipping would be cheap.

BTW, I did not know RRE produced a triangulated version strut bar. I thought they only offered the single bar version?

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Can we get some pictures of the process?
I'd be highly interested, depending on price since your location is Europe I doubt shipping would be cheap.

BTW, I did not know RRE produced a triangulated version strut bar. I thought they only offered the single bar version?

Pics will he up mid week next week of the progress, i hope to have it all welded and functional next week aswell,

I cant talk about anything to do with price but shipping is not that much, is less then i thought was going to be.

The rre bar i dont think really cuts it as the fire wall is so thin its not like it can be supported either,

 

[NHerron]

Glad to hear progress is still going on, thanks for the update -really lookin forward to seeing how this unfolds

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

This is the rear, it needs to be folded and then have brackets welded in near the corners to support the load.

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This is the front, it will be welded with a brace and supports aswell to hold the load of the bars

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This is really as far as i have got and will look alot better then this, these are just for mock up, after this i plan to build a 1g set with my friends 1g as a dummy.

Hope you enjoy. Any questions then please ask

 

[Gamble97]

^^How thick is that piece?

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

^^How thick is that piece?

everything is 3mm plate, thats the thickest i could go as the nuts wont fit back on is i went thicker.

 

[NHerron]

Did you come up witb other additional mounting locations? Or is it just secured at the strut towers?

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Did you come up witb other additional mounting locations? Or is it just secured at the strut towers?

At the moment its just the towers but i am adding something never done before on any car!!! so untill i have tested it i dont want to say anything else, ive looked and looked at 3 point braces and there is only 2 ways to do it on our cars and both involve adding metal to places so thats not very easy for an install and i am looking into making braces for the inner fender to front beam near the rad, as ive seen on many drift cars and race cars so it must help, but trying to make them without being bulky and maybe add things to it. But thats another project and its only in my head for now,

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

So time has passed and ive been busy at work but had some hours to kill so i got some more done on this, the rear is done and awaiting the custom plates with logos and the front is half done, my original idea was to run it like the dc double bar but as ive had to change the design since ive got a problem with the maf sensor on the intake manifold being in the way, so now i have to bend the bar around the rear of it, but i ran out of time to do that so im left with just 1 bar up front at the moment, and even though its 1 bar i still feel the difference, i will add pics up over the weekend of the progress.

everything was so tight and i did not have the right ceramic shroud on so im not happy with the apperance of the welds or color but there strong and i guess thats all im after for now, granted i welded pretty much every part i could minus a few tight corners but now i come to realise i dont need to do that so the next one will have less welds but still be supported in the most needed areas.

The rear bar is a double bar and supported in the middle with 4x 3mm strips then covored with a plate ready to have the plaque mounted to it.

 

[arrowhead]

Pictures please.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Pictures please.

Over the weekend as i cant seem to upload them on here from my phone since its OS update, so i have to email them to me to get them on here so very long

 

[NHerron]

Yeah we need pictures to keep this alive, I totally forgot about this thread for a minute

but i am adding something never done before on any car!!!

Any clues on this yet?

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Yeah we need pictures to keep this alive, I totally forgot about this thread for a minute



Any clues on this yet?

Not yet buddy i would like to say but i did not get as far as doing that part due to me re designing the front now, then i have to test it to make sure it works. Only then i can tell you all what it is!!

 

[NHerron]

Okay

Will the design flex easily by pushing down on it? Is more or less stiffness a good trait in a strut bar? I would think less flex is better but I don't know for sure.

Also, on some strut bars, where they use the nut/stud to locate the end of the strut bar, it ends up destroying the threads from what I've seen/read. If you've seen the RRE style bar, that's what I mean, so you might be able to implement some solution there

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

these are the pics of the rear bar, as you can see its fully welded which wont need to be done on the next version as this is just my prototype, there not the neatest looking items but its a mock up and everything will be laser cut so i can look at them and think oh yes thats good looking hahaha

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these are the pics of the front which is unfinished

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this one shows all the welds i put into it and i can assure i wont need all this again

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this shows how much clearence it has over the battery, i can fit my whole hand with a bit of room to spare so its got plenty of room and no chance of making contact,

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this pic shows the problem i had and the maf sensor being in the way so i now have to go to the right of the maf sensor on this pic miss the vaccum hoses and then back round to the other strut location

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Okay

Will the design flex easily by pushing down on it? Is more or less stiffness a good trait in a strut bar? I would think less flex is better but I don't know for sure.

Also, on some strut bars, where they use the nut/stud to locate the end of the strut bar, it ends up destroying the threads from what I've seen/read. If you've seen the RRE style bar, that's what I mean, so you might be able to implement some solution there

i have put some force on the rear double bar and with help from the bracing underneath the plate it seems to be tight and i cant measure it by hand but i didnt feel it move,

as to the stud tower location mounting point well i have thought about that the only idea i had was to drill a bigger hole and mount a swivel nut on the inside so the nut still moves round to tighten up, only problem i think would be is the threads still getting a little messed up but i dont know that as a fact,

other option is i could make a small collet so this sits over that and then the nut sits on top of the collet so the pressure is spread over the thread and not on 1 section.

i am leaning towards the swivel nut welded into the tower mounting point as it would be better and plus would allow more threads to hold it on as im using loctite to help hold it on due to the plate being 3mm thick, i have them all down so i can see 1 full thread on the strut studs so thats enough




thats all i got for now untill i do the rest of the front

 

[NHerron]

Thanks for the pics!
Even in raw design, they look really great. I really like that the front strut bar is a direct, straight bar and not bent. It looks very rigid. And it's also nice the battery isn't anywhere close. Are you talking about that MDP/MAP sensor on the intake manifold? And that is in the way of placing another bar across? Well some people can get away with that. For example, I have a 1G intake manifold (6 bolt swapped) so I don't have that sensor.

Another idea, what about something like this for the nut? It would simply be something like a bead of weld or weld on an additional 1/2" x 1/2" plate with a circular cut so this way, it will center the stock nuts. The reinforcement will be butted against the nut flange, KEEPING the stud centered in the brackets hole (hole might need to be .150"+ bigger to allow room for error) Therefore, when force is applied, it goes through the stud -through nut flange -through the reinforcement -through the bracket, bar, etc. Instead of the bracket possibly sliding and the nut threads end up exerting the force instead of the nut.

 

[arrowhead]

I wish I could draw or paint but that is a futile effort, my drawing I mean.

I have a very similar idea, building a box where I could insert a heim joint for easy removal, if looked from the front _____ The bottom line would be a plate to
_____bolt to the tower, the middle and top
_____ would have a hole for attaching the
heim point,all reinforced in the back
Thjs is awful.

Sorry

 

[NHerron]

it's all good arrowhead

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Thanks for the pics!
Even in raw design, they look really great. I really like that the front strut bar is a direct, straight bar and not bent. It looks very rigid. And it's also nice the battery isn't anywhere close. Are you talking about that MDP/MAP sensor on the intake manifold? And that is in the way of placing another bar across? Well some people can get away with that. For example, I have a 1G intake manifold (6 bolt swapped) so I don't have that sensor.

Another idea, what about something like this for the nut? It would simply be something like a bead of weld or weld on an additional 1/2" x 1/2" plate with a circular cut so this way, it will center the stock nuts. The reinforcement will be butted against the nut flange, KEEPING the stud centered in the brackets hole (hole might need to be .150"+ bigger to allow room for error) Therefore, when force is applied, it goes through the stud -through nut flange -through the reinforcement -through the bracket, bar, etc. Instead of the bracket possibly sliding and the nut threads end up exerting the force instead of the nut.

thanks the the support buddy, i am having to add a second bar as not everyone will remove the maf sensor on there 2g so i have to accomodate them aswell as other guys who DO move them but for now as mine is there and its the only 2g near me im working on this design! the 2nd bar will be curved around the maf sensor but with the straight bar there it should not effect it in terms of flexing etc and with the item im also adding it should hold up pretty well, even the 1 bar design has made a difference as ive mentioned before but 2 bar will be alot better and i can then look at adding sections to reinforce the fender and front support bar as ive seen on many race cars before so it must help a bit.



just looking at your pic im a little lost as to what you mean on the weld part? are you on about welding that nut to the bar so it helps stop the plate from moving? my holes are not big and its a snug fit over the studs so not alot if any movement is on the studs, as i have said i do plan on using thick swivel nuts similar to this but in stainless Swivel Flange Nuts - TE-CO then as thats welded to the inside of the drilled hole it not onlt will prevent any plates from rubbing but it will give you more thread to hold down to aswell.

i have loctite on and ive kept an eye on it and it has not moved to im happy with the out come, i plan to finish the 2nd bar in a few weeks as im still working out the best route around the maf sensor and plus time is not on my side

 

[NHerron]

Oh! I see how I failed to clarify on that part. No, there wouldn't be any welding of the nut. It would just be a weld onto the plate itself. Then once the nut gets bolted down, this weld or 'reinforcement' would surround the nut flange, and would keep the plate from walking, and effectively preventing the threads from being damaged.

Same idea different method- you could weld on another plate on top of the original plate but this second plate will be there to center the nut. Basically you would measure the nut flanges' diameter, cut this size hole in the plate and weld the plate onto the main one. So once the nut gets bolted down, it sits countersunk into this second plate and once again preventing the assembly from walking. No special hardware or anything too complicated

Craptastic picture attached

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Oh! I see how I failed to clarify on that part. No, there wouldn't be any welding of the nut. It would just be a weld onto the plate itself. Then once the nut gets bolted down, this weld or 'reinforcement' would surround the nut flange, and would keep the plate from walking, and effectively preventing the threads from being damaged.

Same idea different method- you could weld on another plate on top of the original plate but this second plate will be there to center the nut. Basically you would measure the nut flanges' diameter, cut this size hole in the plate and weld the plate onto the main one. So once the nut gets bolted down, it sits countersunk into this second plate and once again preventing the assembly from walking. No special hardware or anything too complicated

Craptastic picture attached

oh i see now but it still will damage the threads as the lower plate will still be in contact with the threads, ive been keeping an eye on movement and its not moved since its been bolted down! the way i said with a swivel nut was to use the whole thread as the contact point of the studs and that way the plate is not in contact with any studs and therefore cannot harm them and the nut still is able to spin when the base of the nut is welded,

im not very good at drawing so i wont haha

 

[NHerron]

? I dont see how you think the threads would touch anywhere if the bracket is centering the studs. The holes for the studs would be drilled out slightly bigger than the studs themselves.

I kinda see what you mean with the swivel nut, but do you have a link showing an example of the nut youre talking about?

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

? I dont see how you think the threads would touch anywhere if the bracket is centering the studs. The holes for the studs would be drilled out slightly bigger than the studs themselves.

I kinda see what you mean with the swivel nut, but do you have a link showing an example of the nut youre talking about?

Swivel Flange Nuts - TE-CO thats the swivel nut i was thinking of using

and what i mean by threads still touching was if i still have the lower plate on there even thought the added top plate is centering the nut the lower place is still going to see stress so it will move and hit the inner part of the lower plate no matter what unless i can made the whole think threaded.

i hope i explained better haha

 

[NHerron]

Swivel Flange Nuts - TE-CO thats the swivel nut i was thinking of using

and what i mean by threads still touching was if i still have the lower plate on there even thought the added top plate is centering the nut the lower place is still going to see stress so it will move and hit the inner part of the lower plate no matter what unless i can made the whole think threaded.

i hope i explained better haha

That's nice hardware to keep things like powder coated items from getting marked up badly but I don't see it doing much in keeping the bracket from moving around underneath the nut

Like I said earlier, the top plate would be welded to the bottom plate. So these two pieces would become one piece. The top plate's job is to center the stud through the bottom plate. The bottom plates job is just to let the stud pass through. These two plates would be welded together before assembly. When the nut is tightened down, the FLANGE of the nut will be flush with the top plate AKA 'countersunk' in the top plate. When force is applied (like high speed cornering), force goes through the stud -through the nutflange -through the top plate -through the bar -and through the other bracket. The threads of the studs are totally taken out of the equation in this case.

Think of how the nuts look on a passenger car, they have a rounded point on the nut so that once you tighten the nut, the rounded point sinks right into the machined divot in the rim. This keeps the threaded stud positioned right smack dab in the middle of the hole, so no matter how much torque goes through the axle, the threaded studs will not make contact to anything

Make sense?

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

I understand what your saying and i get it more now everytime i read it it makes more and more sense haha, as to my theory the swivel nuts flange will sitting almost flush to the tower on the underside of the plate and welded on the top and undersideof it so thats how that would work, and that leaves the top nut to spin and the threads are all that contacts the studs,

ive got alot more to research and mess around with first and as ive just been made redundant from work its now set me back on finishng it but as soon as i get any progress i will post it up