building custom strut bar, unsure on tube dia to use

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

As it says im planning my own strut bar which is going to include a few items thats are not currently on the market the only problem is im unsure on the size of tube to use! I cant find any info on the DC sports bar and since mine will follow the duel design like the DC bar it has to be small enough to do the job and not be to small to just collapse, it will he made of stainess steel and be 1.5mm wall thickness or 1 mm depending how i feel on ordering the tubeing. I was thinking 35mm OD but 2 might look a little to bulky,

What do you surgest?

Thanks bobby

 

[NHerron]

Bobby, I'd love to see the outcome of the design, I don't really care for the current ones on the market

Sorry, I have no ideas for ya

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Bobby, I'd love to see the outcome of the design, I don't really care for the current ones on the market

Sorry, I have no ideas for ya

I know what you mean, the only brace i like is the DC but since ive got many ideas i want to put to ise i thought this would be a start! I had thought about an oil catch system in the bar since ive seen this on a supra before and looked rather nice but im not going that route now, i wont want to give anything away so i wont say my final plans hehe after all its a surprize ;-)

I shall post pics once ive done it but wont be at least for another month


Ps sorry for my spelling since my phone did an update i cant seem to get it to alter anything, im not dumb i promise!!!!!

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

If anyone has some info on the dc strut bar that would be great, im looking at 20mm OD with 1-1.5mm wall but dont want to go too small but i thinkbthat should he stiff enough with a duel bar design right?????

 

[99gst_racer]

For a twin tube design with a plate joining the two tubes, I think 1.00" (~25mm) diameter would be good. I'd use around a 2mm wall thickness too. And why stainless? I'd recommend mild steel tubing and powdercoating it when finished.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

I thought 25mm might have been to much but maybe not. And stainless because why not! My original plans were to inbuild a catch can into the tubing but thats not going to happen now, but i am planing another thing but im not going to say untill i post up pics. Stainless looks nice and ive always wanted a titanium look so thats the closest i can get,

 

[99gst_racer]

I guess if you want something that looks great in a raw finish, then SS will work. It's just expensive. That's the only reason I'd use mild steel instead.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

I guess if you want something that looks great in a raw finish, then SS will work. It's just expensive. That's the only reason I'd use mild steel instead.

i dont really think about price! its a custom piece so i just spend , i think its going to look great and really stiffen the thing up and my little extra i plan to make will i think be a fully functional first among the dsmers

 

[greengoblin]

Look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Kevin

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Kevin

no stealing my ideas once im done kevin,

this isnt going to be the only idea for this as i really do want to design a built in catch can setup but im trying to find the best possible way to do this,

 

[turboglenn]

3/4inch OD would be good and not too large but strong enough to do a good job

 

[lowell]

For what it's worth, I just measured a stock Evo 3pt bar and it's 1" diameter and weighs a porky 3113g. It's really stiff though compared to most.

 

[NHerron]

Lowell that's good info to add, nice

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

For what it's worth, I just measured a stock Evo 3pt bar and it's 1" diameter and weighs a porky 3113g. It's really stiff though compared to most.

Thats good to know as i was deciding 20mm or 25mm now and 1" is about 22mm so i think either of my choices will be fine, they come with a wall thiciness of 1.5mm or at least thats the biggest i can find on the net for stainless,

im going to grab some small scrap at work and try test them out with pressure and see is 5mm makes a difference or not and how much each one flexes, doubt it will be alot and with a duel design it will most likely not even budge,

 

[99gst_racer]

22mm = .86". 25mm is closer to 1". But either diameter would suffice.
1.5mm wall thickness seems too thin though. That's equivalent to .059", which is very thin for such a small diameter. It would probably deflect easily. A thicker wall wouldn't add much weight and would give it a good amount of extra strength.

Then again, maybe 1.5mm wall is plenty for a twin tube design where they're both plated together...

 

[eclipsegsx1736]

If you're looking to stiffen up the front end, I'd do the following (in this order):

-fender braces (greengoblin on this forum makes them)
-solid or poly front subframe bushings
-in lieu of SF bushings, you can use a front lower brace (RRE makes a nice one)
-front upper triangulated strut bar. RRE again makes a nice one. In fact, the ONLY one I know of. I have this one but haven't installed it yet.

2g front suspension is double wishbone, so an upper strut bar isn't quite as crucial. More likely, you'll have movement of the front subframe under cornering load, hence the aforementioned subframe bushings and/or the lower subframe brace.

One of the weakest points on the 2g frame is the firewall area. Tying the shock towers to the firewall should be of some benefit on these cars, and would be a great addition to fender braces.

Pic below is one I found from an older thread on here:

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Beau

 

[greengoblin]

That RRE bar looks like it is .065 wall judging from the mounting points on the strut towers.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

If you're looking to stiffen up the front end, I'd do the following (in this order):

-fender braces (greengoblin on this forum makes them)
-solid or poly front subframe bushings
-in lieu of SF bushings, you can use a front lower brace (RRE makes a nice one)
-front upper triangulated strut bar. RRE again makes a nice one. In fact, the ONLY one I know of. I have this one but haven't installed it yet.

2g front suspension is double wishbone, so an upper strut bar isn't quite as crucial. More likely, you'll have movement of the front subframe under cornering load, hence the aforementioned subframe bushings and/or the lower subframe brace.

One of the weakest points on the 2g frame is the firewall area. Tying the shock towers to the firewall should be of some benefit on these cars, and would be a great addition to fender braces.

Pic below is one I found from an older thread on here:

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Beau

Ive looked at adding the tri bar to the firewall but it really is thin! The only way would he to lower the mounting point of it. Fender braces im going to make later down the line. But i uave the tanabe under brace and solid engine mounts, the rest will follow

22mm = .86". 25mm is closer to 1". But either diameter would suffice.
1.5mm wall thickness seems too thin though. That's equivalent to .059", which is very thin for such a small diameter. It would probably deflect easily. A thicker wall wouldn't add much weight and would give it a good amount of extra strength.

Then again, maybe 1.5mm wall is plenty for a twin tube design where they're both plated together...

That was just an of the top of my head estimate them sizes, 1.5mm is the biggest wall dia they sell unless i buy cold rolled and im sorry but thats super expensive! Almost titanium money! And i would rather go titanium if so .

This wont flex alot as its not a very long bar and yes with the duel design should be very stiff, along with what else i have planned it should be a good improvelent if i have this worked out right.

 

[lowell]

This is an interesting design:

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[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

That does look amazing, if only we had room for an item like that,

 

[eclipsegsx1736]

This is an interesting design:

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It's a drag they went through all that work, and all those dimple dies just to use bolts for the shock tower plates and kill most of the torsional rigidity..

 

[psycho]

I have a now discontinued D3 Designs USTB and LSTB. They've been out of business for a few years now.

I like the 3 point design, however, the mounting point for the firewall could use some re-engineering.

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It attaches to the very thin lip in front of the wiper valley, not even the firewall. Maybe if it was more like a trapezoid, as opposed to a triangle, so it could be attached in multiple spots and be spread out.

The lower brace is much better, I think, as it's 3 points as well. It attaches to the inboard pickups of the lateral control arms and uses a bracket to attach to the "north/south" bar just behind the front motor mount.

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Maybe when someone produces an aftermarket bar, they can incorporate that design into it.

This, combined with an RRE lower tie would be better.

The complete "kit" also included two bars for the rear. Attaching to each inboard pickup of the lower control arm and than to the body.

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[lowell]

Tell me those aren't Adel clamps on the firewall mount...

eclipsegsx1736: I was thinking the same thing, and the plates over all look pretty thin.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Just a little update, at work today Ive been playing with tension and stress the bar gives after a certain force applied, although im not super star at all this i think ive got enough info to allow what i want to use and be safe and reduce the amount of movement alot. I was playing around with just over 1m or each pipe as thats close enough to what will be the length of it, close being not exact!!!

I tested,

22.5mm od w/ 3mm wall
18mm od w/ 1.2mm wall
25mm od w/ 1.5mm wall

All was pretty strong and moved less then 2mm-4mm or lower l, the strongest i found was 18mm /1.2mm wall as it was smaller but thats based upon the stress test i did and i applied some force,

However i did not have 20mm w/ 1.5mm wall but this is my choice im going with after this test, seeing at the 18mm was strong i can only imagine 20mm wont be alot worse due to the bigger wall.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

right another update, so i got my brackets cut out and looking ok to fit around the front and rear of the towers, i will get some pics up soon (next week) but these are not the finished items as im going to get them laser cut for a much better look and fit, this is all stainless steel and is going to hold alot of tension.

I want to tell you the little EXTRA something im doing but untill ive looked into something and done my R&D i cannot say whether its worked or not!!! but once ive got my mock up braces done i will post pics up of them with out my special something hehe.

if this goes well i will become a supporting freelancer and offer them but ONLY and i mean ONLY!!!!!!! if im happy with the R&D and they work well for what ive designed them for, they will be in stainless and steel of course.

i hope to have this all finished up in a few weeks and then a few more weeks after that for testing,

i will keep you all posted.

thanks bobby