Building 7 bolt - need details for reliability

[Strm Trpr]

Alright man, I'm just going say a few things here.
Do you have any significant noises coming from your motor?
Do a compression check, and go from there.
I mean, if you have good compression and your motor is running fine, then why rebuild?
I'd say run it til it breaks, then worry about a rebuild.
I mean who knows, that 7-bolt may still walk.... hopefully not for you and me....
I ride 2 strokes, and we only rebuild our engines either after they've blown up,
or I've worn the piston rings so bad from 40+ hours of riding that I don't have enough compression to kick it over.....
I say make it fast and do preventive maintanence on it, and keep her clean....

Drive it til it breaks, then worry about a rebuild....
Rebuilding a 7-bolt can be a waste of money....

 

[1fast97gsx]

Yes a 6 bolt can crankwalk. However, the percentages don't lie. Unless you are made of money, then yes, you are taking an unnecessay risk.

Then don't buy a dsm ... simple as that. Stay away from these mystery problems all together. Why would someone not use a perfectly good block to prevent something that may happen either way????

 

[Mike 99GSX]

Then don't buy a dsm ... simple as that. Stay away from these mystery problems all together. Why would someone not use a perfectly good block to prevent something that may happen either way????

You can acquire a 6 bolt block and crank for $150. That would be my reasoning for not using "the perfectly good block". This would be the extent of extra money you would have invested. I feel that spending the extra $150 for a 6 bolt is worth the reassurance that it most likely will not CW compared to the 7 bolt.

 

[leakyfaucet]

You can acquire a 6 bolt block and crank for $150. That would be my reasoning for not using "the perfectly good block". This would be the extent of extra money you would have invested. I feel that spending the extra $150 for a 6 bolt is worth the reassurance that it most likely will not CW compared to the 7 bolt.

Agreed. That guy is in denial.

 

[Strm Trpr]

Yeah right.... $150 for a block, but what about the other stuff.....
<a href = http://www.slowboyracing.com/Race%20Engines/4g63_heads/2gswapkitp.html> 1G in a 2G Kit</a>

Peace

 

[WhipmastaFlex]

Agreed. That guy is in denial.

Funny thing is, I used to be one of these 7-bolt owners marching around screaming "overrated!!" as well, saying that it's not likely, talked about too much, defending 7-bolts, saying "well 6-bolts walk to", etc etc etc... until mine walked. Things change when it happens to your motor.

As for using a torque plate, a TP was used in boring and honing the block, and the block was align honed. used clevite bearings, new oil pump, and they were worn to sh!t after 25k.

As for the SBR 1g in a 2g kit... I looked at that kit when doing my swap. Then I bought my 6-bolt for $200. Which came with virtually EVERY part on that list. I didn't need to buy an oil pump, filter housing, timing cover, etc. I bought a new front cover, new timing parts, new gaskets, FULLY BUILT cost me $1200 total. Less than the price of that kit.

 

[nazthug]

so wait, your built 7 bolt walked? built 6bolt?

Im consfused, sorry


I may switch to a 6 bolt, but only if it doesnt really cost me $1300 just for the extra parts, thats rediculous, for that extra, i could pay god to make sure my 7 bolt doesnt walk,

So the best thing to do is find a 6 bolt with some of that stuff on it?

I dont trust a 10 year old oil pump though, and those things

Also, MY MAIN CONCERN:


How will a 6 bolt affect my emmisions ? I must still pass emissions here in california

Last time i went in with my car, i just put the stock injectors in, pulled the afc, put the stock intake, cat and exhuast on and it passed

But will the different block cause problems? Does the 6 bolt get rid of ANY emmision equipment? If so, its not an option for me

 

[heavyD]

I had my 7-bolt fully rebuilt and if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't because everyone says it is a mistake, so it must be. Honestly though, my car runs awesome. Just make sure that your engine builder knows what he is doing and you will be fine.

 

[98spydert]

As for using a torque plate, a TP was used in boring and honing the block, and the block was align honed. used clevite bearings, new oil pump, and they were worn to sh!t after 25k.

Not just boring and honing, but actaully assembled to spec with a tp also??

 

[1fast97gsx]

You can acquire a 6 bolt block and crank for $150. That would be my reasoning for not using "the perfectly good block". This would be the extent of extra money you would have invested. I feel that spending the extra $150 for a 6 bolt is worth the reassurance that it most likely will not CW compared to the 7 bolt.

yep I know I have 1 in my garage and I paid less than $100. You CAN do the swap for cheap .. I'm not arguing that. The problem is finding a 6 bolt crank thats in good shape and a block that hasn't been machined 50 times or overheated. Finding a GOOD machined crank and a 6 bolt block with machining will be upwards of $500. Then another $200 in parts to complete the swap ... Worth it to someone in fear of crankwalk? I suppose so. To someone who isn't worried about it? Nope.

Now someone really in fear of their stock 7 bolt walking with no symptoms looking to put in a different block ... why would you even bother with a 6 bolt? If you want to swap blocks anyways and basically do a full build-up or at least rebuild then do a 4g64 block ...

 

[1fast97gsx]

Agreed. That guy is in denial.

I'm just one to believe if it was really such a major concern why would ANYONE buy a 2g??? What is it like less than 15% that walk???

 

[98spydert]

do a full build-up or at least rebuild then do a 4g64 block ...

I don't know why everyone doesn't do this! EVERYTHING from the 2G bolts on. Wiesco makes 8.5 or 9 pistons for them... Why would you spend the time and money to deal with the 6 bolt swap in a 95+?? Hell you can even get the same year block as your car for smog concerns.

 

[nazthug]

this is why i just wanted to build my actual block....

So i will have problems smoging with a 6bolt block?

Here is the problem, eveyrone i talk to wont eve build a 7 bolt

Jacksonmachineshop wont do it, ams wont do it, no one will sell or build me a 7bolt

I want to have someone good do it, not just some joe schmoe machine shop locally

 

[martyboss]

don"t build 7bolt

 

[Mike 99GSX]

this is why i just wanted to build my actual block....

So i will have problems smoging with a 6bolt block?

Here is the problem, eveyrone i talk to wont eve build a 7 bolt

Jacksonmachineshop wont do it, ams wont do it, no one will sell or build me a 7bolt

I want to have someone good do it, not just some joe schmoe machine shop locally

....And neither will Buschur or almost any of the other reputable DSM shops. Reason being is that none of these shops want to be held financially accountable if the built motor walks after 500 miles.

 

[espinelli]

I didn't know dsm shops warrantied 6 bolt motors. Regardless, when it comes down to it, its all preference. Although, if I were to do a swap I would go the 2.4 block route and pass on the 6bolt.

I too kicked around the 6 vs 7 bolt debate after spinning a bearing. I decided to use my 2nd gen block and stroked it as well. I know that a 6 bolt block will cost more than $150 plus the crank and the parts to make a bolt work in a 2G will run well over $400 using new parts. Unless you plan on using all the old crap...but to me that sounds like a recipe for disaster. Not sure why anyone would do that when building a new motor.

 

[espinelli]

this is why i just wanted to build my actual block....

So i will have problems smoging with a 6bolt block?

Here is the problem, eveyrone i talk to wont eve build a 7 bolt

Jacksonmachineshop wont do it, ams wont do it, no one will sell or build me a 7bolt

I want to have someone good do it, not just some joe schmoe machine shop locally

What? Did you try calling slowboy or forced? Jackson sells 7bolt kits.

 

[alexg1323]

I too kicked around the 6 vs 7 bolt debate after spinning a bearing. I decided to use my 2nd gen block and stroked it as well. I know that a 6 bolt block will cost more than $150 plus the crank and the parts to make a bolt work in a 2G will run well over $400 using new parts. Unless you plan on using all the old crap...but to me that sounds like a recipe for disaster. Not sure why anyone would do that when building a new motor.

sounds like a recipe for sucsess to me and a cheap one if you know how to properly inspect and build a motor.

 

[espinelli]

sounds like a recipe for sucsess to me and a cheap one if you know how to properly inspect and build a motor.

True words of a junkyard mechanic :laugh: Hey more power to you if you want to go ahead and use old front case and oil pump after a fresh build up.

You said it yourself, if you know how to properly inspect and build a motor there shouldn't be any reliability issues regardless of what motor you decide to build.

 

[trbotaln]

If you torqueplate hone it and make sure that all of your tollerences are to factory spec then their should be no reason for the 7 bolt to walk.

 

[sinfire55]

overrated...

plus, thats only on 95-96

you should know, you have a 99

They revised the crank bearings annd crank, 2 piece now, and i havent really ever heard a 99 4g63 walking yet...do you have any idea how many 98-99's there are out there? I think i heard 1 98 walking,,,thats nowhere near enough evidence

my 98 walked

 

[espinelli]

Not all 98's have dual thrust bearings.

 

[nazthug]

yeah, only like half way through 98

but mine is a 99, so it has it

CAN SOMEONE ANSWER MY QUESTION:

Does a 6 bolt have any missing emmisions equipment that the 7 bolt has?

I am in california, and i have to build something that will still pass emissions(given i put most of the stuff back to stock like fuel and cat)

I think i can get away with emissions with a 50trim, because it doesnt show any extra pipes and it looks fairly factory, just biger, although its under the stock manifold and heatshield which is good

ALso, i have the injen intake so its carb'd and i might get an extra sticker and throw it on my upper IC piping that goes to the manifold(although its a nice powdercoated black) and try to pass it off as it was part of the injen intake...

But i gotta know if the 6 bolt is gonna give me problems hooking up any of my emissions stuff???

 

[nazthug]

What? Did you try calling slowboy or forced? Jackson sells 7bolt kits.

yeah jackson sells parts for 7 bolts, but NOT built full blocks, neither do they offer the service, i know, i emailed them, they said they wont do it, and that sux, cause they seem like they do a good job

 

[98spydert]

CAN SOMEONE ANSWER MY QUESTION:

Does a 6 bolt have any missing emmisions equipment that the 7 bolt has?

I am in california, and i have to build something that will still pass emissions(given i put most of the stuff back to stock like fuel and cat)

ALso, i have the injen intake so its carb'd and i might get an extra sticker and throw it on my upper IC piping that goes to the manifold(although its a nice powdercoated black) and try to pass it off as it was part of the injen intake...

But i gotta know if the 6 bolt is gonna give me problems hooking up any of my emissions stuff???

It's no the equipment you have to worry about it's the year of the block and head. It must be the same year or newer in California which means if they actually look it up, you're screwed. That's why I suggested the Galant 2.4 bottom end but I don't know if they went past 98 so you might just be screwed all around with a 99.