Building 7 bolt - need details for reliability

[nazthug]

Ok, i have been reading many posts about engine building and i just get more confused, too many opinions, too many advices that are different, too many parts

I have a 99 gst, so i have the "newer" block with supposedly 2 piece bearing so it should have many problems with crank walking

It has 80000miles on it

I want to rebuild it soon to handle more power but mostly to be reliable and not worry about a blow up.

I am only aiming at about 350-400whp, i know some people say stock will handle it but thats not good enough for me, the engine has miles on it, it has been worked hard and i want to make sure nothing goes out.

I will keep it a 7bolt because i dont want the mess of a new block, and all that goes along with it.

I wil use my block and my crank to do the build

I am not super engine builder knowledged when it comes to the small details on machining, all the small parts required, rod bearings, main bearings, torque plate, hone, bore, seals, etc..

This is somewhat of a budget buildup so i dont want to spend too much.

I will be using Eagle rods and weisco pistons most likely

who does 7bolt builds?

Everywhere i look people either build or sell 6bolts

I want to stay with my 7 bolt, its the latest(99gst) and it supposedly has all the revisions so im not worried about crankwalk, plus its not as old so i dont have to worry about worn out blocks and cranks.

Let me have it guys

Should i send my block somewhere and have it all done? do it localy?

I can take it out and put it back in myself, but i dont know if i want to do the building myself, as i dont know which shop around here can do good machine work

Whats this torque plate stuff?

Anyways, i want a decent, strong and reliable engine to handle the power.

Some people say use the 1g rods, are they really that much beter? They are bigger, but still the same shity material as the 7bolt, them being bigger doesnt make them that much stronger, as far as material specs are concerned, if its only a size difference, it cant be more then 5-10% stronger, so i rather use eagle rods

Help me out guys

 

[PhillyBlunt]

As far as the clutch is concerned, a stock clutch WILL NOT hold 350 to 450 hp. You will at the very least need to have a ceremetallic clutch. Exedy has street safe sprung centered 3 pucks for a good price at coximport.com Any higher and I would recommend a hyper single or a carbon hyper single. Don't want to blow the tranny...very expensive.

 

[Mike 99GSX]

There is a reason 7 bolts are not built. You are playing with fire.............

 

[nazthug]

the clutch and diff is already taken care off

i am getting a quaife and a feramic clutch

 

[1fast97gsx]

There is a reason 7 bolts are not built. You are playing with fire.............

... very helpful information.


To answer your question any shop will rebuild your motor. Whether or not they will warranty it or guarantee their work is another questions. Just use any shop that deals with dsms and you should be fine. You can most likely pull the motor yourself and maybe even put it together yourself. Just take it somewhere for the machining. This seems to be the cheapest thing to do, however also the most risky if you don't take your time and do everything perfect. If it comes down to it just buy a full race motor from buschur, ams, magnus, or any other well known dsm shop once you can afford it. I'm sure the motor you have now is fine.

 

[nazthug]

There is a reason 7 bolts are not built. You are playing with fire.............

overrated...

plus, thats only on 95-96

you should know, you have a 99

They revised the crank bearings annd crank, 2 piece now, and i havent really ever heard a 99 4g63 walking yet...do you have any idea how many 98-99's there are out there? I think i heard 1 98 walking,,,thats nowhere near enough evidence


Plus, to convert to a 6bolt is too much of a painn and extra costs

 

[GSXTCY]

overrated...

plus, thats only on 95-96

you should know, you have a 99

They revised the crank bearings annd crank, 2 piece now, and i havent really ever heard a 99 4g63 walking yet...do you have any idea how many 98-99's there are out there? I think i heard 1 98 walking,,,thats nowhere near enough evidence


Plus, to convert to a 6bolt is too much of a painn and extra costs

Lets not make this a crankwalk battle. All DSMs can walk, some are more susceptible to it than others. And you are referring to my 98 that was the only one to walk

 

[nazthug]

well i need some experienced bottom end people to give some input on details...

What i should watch for, what i should make sure i change, what kind of specs i should shoot for, etc...

 

[1fast97gsx]

use the specs that come with your new pistons ... just use the mitsu oil clearnace specs and meassure the endplay. The rest will come with your new parts. Have the head and block leveled as well.

 

[bigjangin]

Plus, to convert to a 6bolt is too much of a painn and extra costs

Do you even know what "extra cost" and extra pain is involved in swapping to a 6 bolt. Obviously not. You'll need a block, which will be 50-150. You'll need a 1g cam angle sensor. You'll need a 6 bolt flywheel. The 6 bolt goes in just the same as a 7 bolt would. Just use your 7 bolt head(have the machine shop drill the holes out by 1 mm). Everything else will be the same as building a 7 bolt, but using 6 bolt parts.


What I'm trying to say is, if you can REBUILD a 7 bolt, you most definitely have the time/skill/money to instead rebuild a 6 bolt and put in your car. Its really not that much different.

But hey its your car and your money. I would at the very least have it done by a very reputable dsm shop.

 

[paul s]

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here is a pic of my built 7bolt. It has eagle rods, ross pistons(and rings) ARP head studs and ARP main studs. The engine has over 12000 miles and going strong(11.9sec). Just do your homework and use your 7bolt. Make sure the builder measures and assemble things correctly..the machine work and assembly was done at a local shop that specialize in mostly V8 and other race engines.. just work with them and it will beOK. good luck.

 

[lowridin2g]

measure your crank end play and take it from there. i did mine but i didnt measure it. all i know is there was barely anything to measure. i couldnt find our mic. at the shop

 

[nazthug]

then why does slowboy sell a $1000 6bolt conversion kit to simply make it work in a 2g?

Either way,i just dont want to bother with it, if i have a healthy 7 bolt here, why not rebuild it?

And the block is much newer, i dont want to buy a $50 15 year old block to work on, i rather use a 5 year old block that i know is in good shape.

I've been wanting to check my endplay but the dealership here is a bunch of retards, he says the only way he can check for crank play is to take it all apart and check it visually...retards

I still wanna have it checked but need to find someone that know what im even talking about

i was thinking just pulling my block out and sending it somewhere reputable to be rebuilt....

like Jacksons auto machine service, i went on their website, they seem like they know what they are doing and they built extremes car who runs 8's

Unless someone can realy persuade me that a 6 bolt isnt that much more complicated to adapt

Plus, will it play a role in emmisions testing here in california?

 

[nazthug]

straight from slowboys website:

All parts are BRAND NEW Mitsubishi parts 6 bolt water line (filter to water outlet) 6 bolt oil filter housing 6 bolt oil pan 6 bolt oil pick up 6 bolt rear main seal 6 bolt timing belt tension arm 6 bolt timing belt cover 6 bolt water pump (OEM Replacement, not Mitsu) 6 bolt flywheel (ACT) 6 bolt front cover (OEM Replacement, not Mitsu) 6 bolt timing tensioner 6 bolt trigger plate Tee fittings, hose and clamps 7 bolt front motor mount (Mount not included *needs modified) 2g counter weight on the shifter (Weight not included *needs cut off)

Our Price:


$1299.00

 

[slowAWDTSi]

Like Everyone else stated mid to late 98 and all 99 models are prettymuch walk free. I had a friend with a late model 98 with stock internals make 350 wheel hp in his GST. That was with a act 2600 Clutch too. He had the car for 2 yrs after that with zero problems. As long as you use a reputable machine shop to do the boaring everything should be fine. On a side note dont grind the crank surface unless you have spun a bearing or gouged it somehow. Use ARP on everything that comes apart. Figure out what pistons you want before the machine shop does its work because they match the pistons to the block. Dont bother with the factory rods or the 1g moded rods, waste of time , I know I tried 135 bucks later worth of work to my factory rods and didnt use em. Eagles are so cheap why not? I personally would use Wiseco or Ross Pistons just because of problems that Ive herd of with JE but some people use them with no problems too. Make sure you get a Factory Service Manual unless you know exactly what you are doing when building the motor or have done it before.

 

[nazthug]

this is what jacksonmachineshop does to their 6 bolt package, i think i can have them do this same thing on my block, its their stage2 setup

*all bearings & freeze plugs are removed
*block oilers are removed
*the engine block is completely degreased
*then visually inspected
*main bolt holes are bottom tapped
*line bore specs are checked
*deck surface is precision machined to RA50 or better
*we then bottom tap the mains & deck holes for ARP studs
*the cylinders are then bored over size
*cylinder walls are 4 step torque plate honed w/ARP studs
*the block in then thoroughly final washed
*all new freeze plugs and galley plug are installed
*we now install your shaft brg elimination kit
*new piston oilers are installed
*the crankshaft is hot tanked
*then magnaflux inspected for cracks
*crank is checked for straight
*it is then micro polished & miked
*all components are precision balanced as an assembly
*piston rings are file fit
*the entire shortblock is then assembled
All of these parts are included in this package:
*new piston oilers
*Wiseco pistons & rings, 8:2 or 9:1 cr
*ACL rod & main brgs
*Eagle rods w/ARP bolts
*ARP main studs
*freeze plugs, deck dowels, galley plug
*JAM balance shaft elimination kit

how does that sound?

 

[badgsx]

Sounds groovy.

 

[LowNismo17]

some 7 bolts are just blessed..like mine! i have over 160,000 miles on mine with just a rebuilt head, i just picked up a broke timing belt 6 bolt block that i am going to build and trash the head..i will give the head away for free if anyone wants it... i would build a 6 bolt if i was you, what if u built your 7 bolt and spent $2,000 on it and then it ended up walking..wouldn't that be a big waste of money..

 

[GSXTCY]

what if u built your 7 bolt and spent $2,000 on it and then it ended up walking..wouldn't that be a big waste of money..

I know someone that had this happen. I would not be a happy camper.

 

[WhipmastaFlex]

I know someone that had this happen. I would not be a happy camper.

I do too. His name is Adam. Notice my name is Adam. Yeah, me. I'm in the middle of a 6-bolt swap now. If I would have known more at the time when I rebuilt the 7-bolt, I wouldn't have rebuilt the 7-bolt. To each his own. Good luck

 

[98spydert]

Unless you know why it walked, there's not much to say.

I'm guessing you didn't have the bottom end assembled with a tq plate ?

 

[Mike 99GSX]

... very helpful information.


To answer your question any shop will rebuild your motor. Whether or not they will warranty it or guarantee their work is another questions. Just use any shop that deals with dsms and you should be fine. You can most likely pull the motor yourself and maybe even put it together yourself. Just take it somewhere for the machining. This seems to be the cheapest thing to do, however also the most risky if you don't take your time and do everything perfect. If it comes down to it just buy a full race motor from buschur, ams, magnus, or any other well known dsm shop once you can afford it. I'm sure the motor you have now is fine.

My 99 crankwalked. That is why I posted my comment. I have also seen 2 built 7 bolts crankwalk locally and it seems pointless to me to go through all the trouble/expense. Just my $.02

 

[1fast97gsx]

dude .. just stop. I've heard of plenty of 6 bolts doing it as well.

to the original poster - build your motor without worrying about crankwalk. If it is meant to happen to you it will happen on any motor you build.

 

[4g64GST]

2 things

1. every motor can walk some just tend to walk more than others. if you are taking a change of a built motor walking why increase your chances. unless you have the money to experiment go with what is known. and if you where experienced and knowledgeable this question would never exist because you would know from research and personal experience.

2. if you are building a motor for 2000.00 it is going to be a really $h!tty job. end of story.

 

[Mike 99GSX]

dude .. just stop. I've heard of plenty of 6 bolts doing it as well.

to the original poster - build your motor without worrying about crankwalk. If it is meant to happen to you it will happen on any motor you build.

What kind of advice is that? Is a 6 bolt swap really that much more difficult to do if you are going through the trouble of pulling an entire motor? I understand that there will be exceptions to everything but assuring someone that their $2-$3k investment will be fine is simply misleading.

Yes a 6 bolt can crankwalk. However, the percentages don't lie. Unless you are made of money, then yes, you are taking an unnecessay risk.