Brian Crower 272 Combo

[JusMX141]

It may be that the boost came on earlier, but the car makes less off-boost torque to get it to the RPM where the boost would build.

I'm not sure if this is the fault of the intake cam or exhaust cam- a 264/272 combo may make more off-boost torque.

 

[Black_Bullet]

We put the BC0101's in my buddy's '95 Talon TSi running a TD05H 20G last summer. We used installed them with no spring upgrades on a stock 2G 7-bolt with 135k on it, 180psi across the deck.

If you're looking for something to make your turbo spool quick on the street or for autocross, I do NOT recommend these cams. While driving along on the street in 4th gear at 3000ish, with the stock cams if you just push the pedal to the floor the turbo would just come to life instantly. With the 272's, it almost feels like a non-turbo car when off-boost....it requires a decent amount of time to get the turbo into boost without a downshift. The BC0101's will add lag to ANY turbo.

On the flipside, the TD05H 20G would flatten out on top at around 5500-6000 with the stock cams....just like a 16G. With the 272's and NO other mods, the car came to life all the way to redline....enough to add almost 4 mph to his 1320 passes (107-108 to 111-112 at the end of a run.) We've since changed the turbo to an FP Green at the end of last season and haven't made a single pass since.

As far as tuning goes, not much was changed other than some fine-tuning up top to take advantage of the increased airflow. If anything, the bigger cams lowered EGT's and we were able to tune leaner. We did have to add a decent amount of fuel down low to get the car to idle....especially when cold.


Long story short....If you're willing to trade off-boost torque for some major power gains on top, they're worth every penny. Added a VERY aggressive idle to his car, too!

Generally with cams you have to add fuel down low, and lean it out up top like ya'll said because of the different air flow, so that sounds about right. What were you idleing at?

Since you say bigger cams lowered EGTs, do you feel that this cam upgrade helps with knock, in terms of allowing more aggressiving timing?
Ive heard some cams actually cause more detonation ( fpx series cams for example.)

Any significant drop off in boost as rpms climbed? If so that could translate to less heat, and therefore why EGT's may have been lower.... Im just speculating.

I pretty much expected the BC272's to rape all your off boost torque, just hope it doesnt make my car a dog in traffic to were i have to downshift or floor it just to pass someone.
I have a ported cyclone intake manifold i plan on installing shorty after the cam upgrade to give back a good chunk of my low end/ and mid range torque that will be lose from the cams. This may balance it out and give me similar low end as I have with stock cams while still reaping the benefits of the 272s.

So correct me if I'm wrong here, but what your saying is that with the 272's, no other upgrades, it took longer for the boost to come on then it did with the stock cams? Interesting you say that because I had a similar problem when I first installed my 280's. I did the same thing that you stated when I first tuned the car, added fuel down low. However, after leaning the car out before the boost came on, It felt like the boost came on earlier and with a lot stronger then before. I'm not saying your wrong or anything like that at all, I'm just adding my personal experience with the with 2 different tune...

280s are a lot more aggressive than 272s, your powerband with those should be shifted upwards a good 1000 rpm above the 272s.
With stock cams you get a a lot of torque down low which not only gets you up and going quicker, but it makes the car "feel" peppier and quicker in short sprints.

A bigger cam will indeed increase airflow and make tons more power up top though and the more and more air you start to force into your engine the more gains youd recieve with an upgraded cam; and though it would be much faster; on the contrary on some setups it wont beat the feeling of stock cams in the way they hit and pull...

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Has anyone ever done a 264/280. Keeps the low end, but still some benefits of spooling all the way? Or is that not possible.

James

 

[Black_Bullet]

Im sure no one has ever done that combo for a reason...... A really good reason at that...

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

What do you think is that reason.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Lets just say dont do it, cams have a lot more to do with engine operation than just the lift you get out of them. Theres other factors such as duration and overlap etc.
That combo you suggested doesnt sound healthy at all, if it was a desireable combo then it wouldve been mentioned already. Its not something to do.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

HAHA. good answer sir. You earned a cookie for that one. I dont know what to do. I have a good deal with 280 here on the forums. But after hearing how 272 kill low end, m nt so sure, because most of my driving consists of that. Is it something you can get used to??

James

 

[Black_Bullet]

Ok you ready...

I try to give full reviews to help ppl w/ their decisions instead of all the half ass reviews ive read....Well I just installed my BC272's today, finally.
The car sounds damn sexy and aggressive. Sounds like its not playing around anymore.

Driving impressions, definite lost in torque when off boost, it takes longer to build boost.
I plan to get some low end back when i install my ported cyclone intake manifold which should give me best of both worlds w/ these cams, i am glad i didnt get smaller cams, and this is coming from a guy who was looking to road race and autox and get the Fp1 cams...

The car is much smoother driving in lower rpms and exhaust note a bit quieter also while cruising, and once full boost is achieved the motor screams as it takes off... Its a very linear pull all the way to redline without the neck snapping torque spike the stock cams paired with the e316g delievered. Its much more smooth, BUT..... The rpms fling way faster to the right.

In first gear, after about 4.5k, as soon as you lay into the throttle, the rpms go so fast afterwards that theres barely time to shift into 2nd gear without revving past 7k,(16g powerband here) and NLTS'ing into 2nd breaks a rear tire loose or two and I have meaty grippy tires...
( Possibly due to these extra light 3rd gen Rx7 rims. )

On the highway, even in 5th gear without downshifting its a constant pull and its easy to get into the 100+mph zones.

I havent retuned it yet for the different airflow, maybe next weekend. Boost is at 20 psi currently... Will post back if i can think of anything else interesting to say for you guys who havent gotten the cams in yet. If your car is decently set up with proper supporting mods and good tuning tools these cams WILL NOT dissapoint. I havent experienced any other cams yet except my friends Fp2s, but i am pleased with the bc272s thus far...

Oh and the idle is as lumpy as dried oatmeal below 900 rpms.
Idle set at 1000.

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[90laserRSfwd]

Nice video man.. I would was recommending 272's (even 280's) to James because he had said about going with the FP 3065 at the end of the year. Are you running an open down pipe by chance ?

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Awesome review. Did you take that video for me?? Aww shucks. Thanks though, i appreciate it. One thing i do want to know, could you take a video of a second gear pull to redline? That would be great. If you were to do it again, FP2 or BC272?


James

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Sorda sounded like a straight pipe or a open downpipe, i hear to roar of the turbo through the exhaust.

James

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Hey guys, i have another thread open about exhuasts. read threw it and tell me what you think. Thanks

James

 

[Black_Bullet]

Nice video man.. I would was recommending 272's (even 280's) to James because he had said about going with the FP 3065 at the end of the year. Are you running an open down pipe by chance ?

I wouldnt touch 280s unless your planning on making power between 6k and 9.
Therefore below 6k it would be a slow pig. Not useful on a streetcar even with a big turbo.

Yes that was open dp, I have a 3in exhaust going into a electric cutout that dumps under the car on the driver side were iheld the camera down to... When the cutout is closed exhaust flow is diverted back down a 2.5in catback and into the stock muffler.
So as you can tell, its stock sounding when the cutout is closed, open dp sounding when open...

Awesome review. Did you take that video for me?? Aww shucks. Thanks though, i appreciate it. One thing i do want to know, could you take a video of a second gear pull to redline? That would be great. If you were to do it again, FP2 or BC272?


James

Sure about the 2nd gear pull
( if i can find someone to hold the camera, I cant shift hold the wheel and camera... Maybe in a honda i could...)

But i dont want to get anyones hopes up with me going thru the gears on camera.
Your car may or may not accelerate as fast as mines on a pumpgas 16g'd awd 1g... Likely not, unless you ripped 350lbs or more worth of weight out of the car.....

The fp2s were not on my car, they were on my friends car and he had a healthier supply of mods than I did and a little bit more boost so i cant do direct comparisons to which Id rather.... But i can say if i did it again id still get the Bc272s just because of the cost...
I build on a budget here...

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Forget the cost, which did you feel in your buddy's car is better, 272 or FP2? Or was it that for the cost, the gains were minimal?

James

 

[Black_Bullet]

Forget the cost, which did you feel in your buddy's car is better, 272 or FP2? Or was it that for the cost, the gains were minimal?

James

What im saying is I cant give you an accurate comparison because both cars had different mods and setups. I can just say " oh I liked his cars feel better?" But he ran 23psi opposed to my 20... He had a far more intensive tune than me... He had a welded center diff...." So on and so on....

So like i said, i cant give direct comparisons...
Fp makes excellent products but the only thing ive ever bought from them is their
race exhaust manifold which id recommend to anyone...

Just get the BC272s like you were going to do... Use the extra money for the spring kit... Be done with it, and be happy knowing your car is making another 30 whp with a higher potiential for even more air the more you upgrade after that point....

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Cool. Thanks for everything, now go read my other thread!!!

James

 

[kelvinb]

Awesome video!

When I get the money I'm sure I'll be dropping some BC272's in my car

 

[drewvr4]

I just installed a set in my car last night, gotta finish putting the timing cover back on.

They have already drilled and tapped the hole for us 2g guys with the CAS. and they went in like cake.

Ill nab a video and the dyno today and post it later tonight.

 

[T Money]

Here is a little eye candy for this thread.

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[Black_Bullet]

I havent figured out what to do with that little lime green BC tree they sent me .

 

[Black_Bullet]

I just installed a set in my car last night, gotta finish putting the timing cover back on.

They have already drilled and tapped the hole for us 2g guys with the CAS. and they went in like cake.

Ill nab a video and the dyno today and post it later tonight.

Cant wait to see your results...
Try to give as thorough of an review as I did.

Im really curious of dynoing myself, but I still have a LOT of tuning to do,
and a minor boost leak at my tb shaft seals to fix.
Realistically, id assume the dyno would only show me making 20-25 more "peak"
awhp than last time with just the cams dropped in. But im sure beyond 5k all the way to redline
there would be healthy power gains across the band, with a much flatter torque line instead of it falling so rapidly.
Once I dial everything in i can expect another 15-25 peak awhp on top of that im sure...

Do you have a dyno sheet/ link of your car before the bc cams so we can
compare the graphs to your after cams results.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Awesome guys. Cant wait for a review.

James

 

[drewvr4]

Alright as basically everyone stated these things have no bottom end and all top. Install is pretty easy however if you have changed the deck height by either machining the head or block or using a different headgasket I highly suggest a set of adjustable cam gears to set your static timing with.

But all in all happy with the results of the dyno today, numbers are to my left.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Alright as basically everyone stated these things have no bottom end and all top. Install is pretty easy however if you have changed the deck height by either machining the head or block or using a different headgasket I highly suggest a set of adjustable cam gears to set your static timing with.

But all in all happy with the results of the dyno today, numbers are to my left.

Wow nice...
So what were your numbers before the cams so we can see the differences.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Alright as basically everyone stated these things have no bottom end and all top. Install is pretty easy however if you have changed the deck height by either machining the head or block or using a different headgasket I highly suggest a set of adjustable cam gears to set your static timing with.

But all in all happy with the results of the dyno today, numbers are to my left.

Could you educate me on static timing and what that does for me when i purchase adjustable cams gears. And also why i need those if i deck the block, which im doing ofr my 6 bolt.

James