Brand New MLS Head Gasket NOT Sealing Properly?

[Ill-EagleTSi]

Ok I need help figuring out if my head gasket did NOT seal up good.

I rebuilt a 6 bolt engine with all new stock internals, I had the Head milled flat. I also cleaned the block surface really good with some 400 Grit Wet sand Paper and a flat block.

I Used some Bullshit MLS gasket that I got off ebay cause I thought it would be ok...It was called a KABUKI Gasket kit hahahahaha WTF?!?!

So it was a 3 layer MLS gasket that was riveted together. I Sprayed it with Copper spray on both sides. Then I installed it with ARP head studs, Torqued to 95 Ft lbs in the proper sequence and in stages 10, 30, 60, 95.

After 50 miles I re-torqued the head studs.

Now the problem I have is the car is losing coolant...I don't see a leak on the outside anywhere.

And My coolant bottle overflows if I got WOT while the car is hot.

So What I have done was Change the coolant Cap to A stronger one that is 16 psi instead of 13
And I also Removed my Thermostat. I know I shouldn't do that but the car was over heating so I had to yank the t-stat to keep it cool. Now it doesn't overheat. But I still lose coolant and I don't know where its going.

I have searched for like a week and I am thinking its my headgasket cause its pushing coolant out of the over flow...but WHY would my headgasket not seal if I did everything right?

Is it cause I used 400 grit wet sand paper on the block surface? I made sure I used a flat steel block on the sand paper to keep it flat.

What can I do to confirm if the HG is bad or not sealing without tearing the whole engine back apart?

If I do have to get a new HG...what kind should I get? a OEM Composite?

 

[Ill-EagleTSi]

Im scared to waste more money on a MLS...I might just get a stock composite HG and call it a day.

So you guys think its the HG for sure?

 

[gettingwop]

I would honestly have taken the block/head to a reputable machine shop and have them deck both the head and the block. We are talking within thousandths of an inch. Gaskets like you are using often require a specific finish on the head/block in order to seal. This is usually standard for what type it is (composite, metal, etc..) However, it can even vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. Find out what the exact finish is to be on the block/head, have it decked with a good shop. You should be ok after that.

 

[lacroixdp]

Yes man, it's your HG. You can't use sand paper on your mating surfaces. You'll create dips and waviness, and it won't ever be as even as a mill. You can toss on a composite HG, but I doubt it would hold since you used sandpaper. You need to take both head and block into a machine shop and have it milled. Next time you need to remove residue, use gasket remover and a razor blade.

 

[Ill-EagleTSi]

So it is confirmed, The head gasket NEVER sealed up. I opened my oil fill cap and found white milky stuff on the underside

I think im just going to put a stock composite HG on and try that. what do you guys think?

I dont see how I could have warped the block with 400 or 800 grit wet sand. that stuff is like notebook paper soft. plus I had a flat block behind the paper to keep it flat. I had the head milled by a shop. Will I know where is was leaking from when I get the head off?

 

[Calan]

When you pull the head, try to do it carefully and see if you can tell where the HG failed and why. I'd be interested to see pics of it.

 

[lacroixdp]

I dont see how I could have warped the block with 400 or 800 grit wet sand. that stuff is like notebook paper soft. plus I had a flat block behind the paper to keep it flat. I had the head milled by a shop. Will I know where is was leaking from when I get the head off?

Like I said, sand paper is not a machining-quality surfacing tool - It is just too imprecise. Heck - Scotchguard pads are too abrasive for the requirements for today's finishes. Once the machine shop finishes the surface, just clean it before installation of the gasket - you don't have to sand it.

 

[Ill-EagleTSi]

what if I am not taking the whole engine apart again to have it milled? Can I just scrap the surface and then put on a Composite gasket?

 

[soldave]

what if I am not taking the whole engine apart again to have it milled? Can I just scrap the surface and then put on a Composite gasket?

In that situation, I'm pretty sure you can, yes. That's what I've done with mine (cleaned the bejeezus out of my head & block and then used composite.

 

[kawboy]

I went sandpaper and oem MLS with no problems..

Pull the head and post pics so we don't have a guessing game anymore

 

[gettingwop]

No, do not 'just' slap another gasket in there. These gaskets require specific finishes on the head, and block mating surfaces. This is why your first head gasket failed. Your hand+sand paper does not equal perfection within thousandths of an inch. These things need to be dealt with by professionals who have the tools and knowledge. If you have your engine 'preped' for a metal gasket a composite gasket will not seat either.

 

[Ill-EagleTSi]

I sure hope its NOT a cracked block or something like that....I bought the 6 bolt engine off this shady guy on Craigslist. It looked to be in great shape...but it could be a hairline crack.

 

[Ill-EagleTSi]

I see so many threads with NO ending so here is the end story to my issue.

IT WAS the Head gasket for sure. I took the head off and cylinder 4 and 1 were leaking into the coolant passages.

The head gasket was 100% flawless. The only way I could tell where it was leaking was because the Copper spray I used was worn away in the spots it was leaking. I sometimes wonder if I should NOT have used the copper spray.

I installed a new MITSUBISHI OEM composite HG and it has been great so far! No more coolant loss.

So I would NOT recommend the Ebay MLS gasket from Domestic gaskets. The Name on the Box was Kabuki gaskets hahaha I should have know it was junk

 

[gettingwop]

You can't just blame it on the head gasket based on that being the place which showed you where the leak was. Without knowing the exact finish you accomplished, it's very possible you hadn't achieved the required finish for said head gasket. With out this it would be impossible for the gasket to seal.

Not that I want to encourage people to jump on the e-bay band wagon. I think it's probable your overlooking the need for a machine shops preciseness to set the head/block mating surfaces for the particular gasket.

 

[Ill-EagleTSi]

The head was indeed machined perfectly smooth. The block I wet sanded with very fin grit like 800. I know it sounds bad but I checked it with a perfectly flat bar stock and a .001 feeler gauge and I couldn't get that through anywhere on the block deck. So I think it was okay. This MLS gasket had 3 layers...is that normal? I thought they had 4 layers?

 

[gettingwop]

You had already stated your method, and you stated the test you did to ensure flatness. It isn't just flatness, or your determination of what smooth is. We are discussing thousandths of an inch. This is not something an average tuner, or engine builder can determine. I would honestly take it to a machine shop, and have them do the decking. Now if you decided to go back to a composite gasket, your head needs to be redone to specs to match. I wouldn't make the same mistake. Let professionals handle this, and you won't have to tear your engine apart again...Well not so soon anyhow.

 

[Ill-EagleTSi]

Thanks for the advice...I will definitely have the block decked next time if I used the MLS.

I already went back to the stock OEM composite gasket and it seems to be sealed up great now! No more lossing coolant or bubbling overflow reservoir!

 

[gettingwop]

If you just popped a composite gasket in place of the MLS with no altering. It means there wasn't a smooth enough finish on the 'sanding' you did. This is why that gasket didn't seat.

 

[Ill-EagleTSi]

But what is weird is the leak was in between the Head gasket and the HEAD Not in between the block and HG. I can tell cause the copper spray I used its worn away on the side it was leaking from.

oh well its fixed now and I learned my lesson. Thanks for all the help guys.