Blue Smoke [Merged 7-9]

[WhiteCloud]

After driving from Charlottesville, VA to Gainesville, FL to visit my best friend for his birthday, I got back into stop and go traffic in the city and noticed I was puffing some blue smoke when taking off from a stop. I'd never noticed this before the trip, so I'm inclined to think something during the trip caused it.

Symptoms:
1) Puffs a cloud of blue smoke shortly after revving engine in neutral.
2) Puffs a cloud of blue smoke while taking off in first gear, but not always noticeable.
3) Doesn't trail smoke like it would if it were a head gasket.
4) Turbo doesn't seem to have excessive shaft play, and boosts fine.
5) I'm burning some oil, but not a tremendous amount (I burned maybe 1/4-1/3 of a quart on the 700+ mile trip back to VA from FL.

I'm wondering what you guys think the problem is, judging from these symptoms.

I've been told to check the PCV valve, but I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking for (in terms of oil, residue, etc. on or in the valve!?), or if I should just be replacing that to see if it fixes the smoke.

What would your next step be if your car were puffing this blue smoke? Is there a way to tell if it is valve seals?

Thanks for the help,

Joe

 

[toofast82]

All of you 2G guys with oil burning issues....where are you sourcing your oil supply from?

Sounds like too much incoming pressure to me.

That's what i'm wondering too
I'm thinking its execess pressure in the chra

 

[JusMX141]

MHI turbos do have much smaller oil passages in the center housing than a Garrett does, but if the pressure is too excessive you've just turned your incoming oil into a pressure washer blasting into the center housing at wide-open throttle.

I can't explain why a MHI journal bearing turbo requires such less incoming oil flow and pressure than a Garrett, but they do. I'm willing to bet if you guys switch your oil feed to the head with a 1G oil supply line, your smoking problems would disappear.

 

[flexnuts02]

I'm his mechanic, I don't post on here, just buy parts but I am a full time tech with a fully built fwd that recently crank walked.

His oil feed is off the filter housing and a stock return, I had a feeling that it had to do with the feed/return setup. Valve seals smoke on start up so it's not that. And it has nothing to do with break in as I have much experience with many kinds of housings. I guess from here Mr. Quirk, look into a -10 return and maybe an SAFC or link, either or I'll have the maps tuned nicely.

Injectors aren't a must, you will simply just be limited on boost for the time being which will be much more than your current 9lbs anyway. If you wanna stop by work after hours sometime ill jot some stuff down for you so you can make your next purchases. And if you could, please take the time to search vfaq.com or google to see what is available for boost leak testing, i'm not sure if home depot would have the right size pvc ends for the 16g coupler (2.5"? can someone verify that) since as you know im burried in sidework and really starting to hate cars

Thanks for the help fellas!

 

[flexnuts02]

**his PCV is venting atmosphere just to clear that up**

 

[JusMX141]

I guess from here Mr. Quirk, look into a -10 return....

Bad idea. The hole in the fittings for a -10AN oil return are smaller than a stock 1G or 2G oil return line.

1G Stock:

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2G Stock:

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-10AN or Pushlok:

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The problem is the oil supply coming from the filter housing. I don't care what you've heard and who you've talked to who says it works, TD05H turbos are not designed to be fed from the filter housing.. It may work fine on some cars, but for the majority it doesn't work without some side effect. Find a 1G oil supply line (from the head) and a 10mm x 1.25 banjo bolt, and your oil burning problems will be solved.

 

[nick]

I have a 1G car and oil feed from the head and still to much oil presure.Can i put an oil restrection?

 

[Quirk]

So am I going to be damaging anything by driving it around until I fix this problem? Burning oil is never a good sign, but who knows?

 

[toofast82]

Bad idea. The hole in the fittings for a -10AN oil return are smaller than a stock 1G or 2G oil return line.

That's my "learn something new every day" Thanks for the info
I would assume the -10an would be bigger than either stock return

 

[mitsuman3000]

That's my "learn something new every day" Thanks for the info
I would assume the -10an would be bigger than either stock return

I didn't know that either.

Very good to know.

 

[BoostFrenzy]

All of you 2G guys with oil burning issues....where are you sourcing your oil supply from?

Sounds like too much incoming pressure to me.

I doubt that it's the turbo or too much pressure from the OFH. Right about now, a lot of the 2g cars are getting to the point where even the well taken care of ones are getting bad valve stem seals or piston rings even.

Start out simple. Replace the PCV valve, and then do a compression test along with a leak down test. I am having the same kind of issues with SLIGHT oil burning after sitting at idle for a while. Not the turbo because it did this before on my old Evo III 16G (from the OFH) and now on the new 30R (from the head with a restrictor).

 

[Lofer]

Have you cleaned intercooler yet, and also have you checked your intake pipes for oil.

 

[97GsXfreak]

Alright so I have had this problem with blue smoke coming out of my exhaust when I am decelerating. I have replaced the block 360 miles ago, the head was replaced 2k miles ago, and turbo was rebuilt like 20 miles ago. The car starts right up and drives fine but if I get on the boost and decelerate in gear, blue smoke comes out the exhaust. No smoke on start up or driving at a constant speed on the highway.

I boosted and came to a stop immediately after and I popped the hood to see smoke coming from around the farthest right on the exhaust manifold, it looks like oil is coming out around that port. My buddy that was driving behind me said oil got onto his truck when I boosted on the highway and was slowing down.WTF

I know I have to do a compression test but I am just trying to get some ideas because I won't be able to do anything to the car until the weekend.

 

[cds1320]

Did u replace the head gasket when you replaced the head? it could also be a bad seal in the turbo even though it was rebuilt, i know when i rebuilt mine i had a bad seal and it caused oil to leak through.

 

[97GsXfreak]

New MLS head gasket and everything was replaced on the turbo by a shop so I don't see it being the turbo seals because I think the oil is burning before the turbo.

Any other ideas?

 

[brian9397gsx]

when you replaced your head did you also have the valve stem seals done? and also what are you running for pcv? you could have a bad pcv. those would be the only other guesses other than rings or an oil seal on the turbo.

 

[97GsXfreak]

I never touched the pcv so that could be an issue...i think everything but the pcv could have been replaced. Would that cause just the smoke on decel after boost? I know I dont have a catch can or anything because where the pcv valve is just a hose going no where and off the side of the valve cover is a hose going no where.

 

[98gst14b]

Where is the oil to your turbo coming from and what kind if turbo you got?

 

[97GsXfreak]

The oil for the turbo is coming from the oil filter housing. The turbo is a hahn racecraft 25g literally just rebuilt.

 

[98gst14b]

Where on the housing and are you using a restrictor?

 

[97GsXfreak]

It is on the front of the housing and there is no restrictor.

 

[98gst14b]

Thats probly your problem, stop driving the car you can damage the turbo if you havent done so already. I literally just went through this same scenario. Replaced everything, blue smoke on decel and white on and off all the time, brand new turbo with 80 miles. Found that my oil filter housing pressure was 100psi. Blew the turbo (Garrett 50trim) Rebuilt the turbo, switched to head, fixed the problem. Check your OP at your supply with a couple fittings from NAPA or a hardware store, Napa has a little 1/8" NPT oil gauge for like $8.

 

[97GsXfreak]

Dude if you are right I will paypal you some money for a 12 pack What is the oil pressure supposed to be for this turbo?

 

[98gst14b]

id say between 35-45 psi is good justmx knows about this really well pm him. ....and 12 panks are $10

 

[JusMX141]

MHI turbos require very little pressure and oil volume to operate. It's mind-boggling considering the Garretts are so touchy with pressure and restriction, but from what I've seen in the past if you're not feeding a MHI turbo from the head you're giving it too much oil.

The Garrett T25 turbos which came stock on 2G's are fed from the filter housing because that's the oil source with the correct pressure and volume for that turbo. The 2G oil drain tube is also slightly larger than a 1G oil drain to handle the additional oil flow.

All factory MHI turbos used on 4G63's are fed from the head....this includes the 14B on 1G's, the Big 16G used on Evo III's, the 16G used on the Galants and the RVR Hyper Sports Gear R, and the turbos used on the Evo IV-IX.

I've seen MHI turbos that died when fed from the filter housing because of too much oil, but I've yet to see one die when fed from the head due to a lack of oil on a normal operating engine.

 

[98gst14b]

See told you he knows , check your pressures and dont drive the car until you do so.