Billet compressor wheels

[hubz91talontsi]

The t3 td05h housing came on the syclone 20g. it has a 3 bolt outlet flange with an internal wastegate.

No, syty's came with a td06 8cm 17c turbo.

And i don't believe mitsubishi ever sold that 8cm housing as a upgrade. Why wouldn't they use the 7cm that came on the evos if thats the case?

The conquest was the only car with the option for a larger turbo from the factoy. Is the 8cm td05h housing coming from the 14g turbo?

 

[agentorange313]

No, syty's came with a td06 8cm 17c turbo.

And i don't believe mitsubishi ever sold that 8cm housing as a upgrade. Why wouldn't they use the 7cm that came on the evos if thats the case?

The conquest was the only car with the option for a larger turbo from the factoy. Is the 8cm td05h housing coming from the 14g turbo?

Sorry you are right, I was thinking it was the the td05h 20g with the 10cm t3.

Oh yea its thats where the factory upgfrade is from. the 14g. thanks for the correction. Mitsu has so many different housings, it wouldn't suprise me for a specific series they used a 8cm dsm flanged housing, then stopped using it once the supply ran out and switched to the evo style or the better nickel evo3 style came out.

the 8cm might have come from the tc series.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...ted-6m-7-cm-manifold-turbo.html#post152058010

EDIT: It probably didnt come from that series, just saw a picture of the outlet of the turbine housing. Its not a DSM style flange.

Hopefully someone can shed some light

 

[JusMX141]

And i don't believe mitsubishi ever sold that 8cm housing as a upgrade.

Sure did- came on all the DSM bolt-on Greddy 18G's; 78-12050.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/394644-turbo-housing-id-help-needed.html

 

[hubz91talontsi]

Wow, Justin.., I don't know why i didnt think about that because those twin greddy 18g's i had rebuilt for the supra were 8cm. They didn't have a Mitsubishi flanges though.

That's what we pay you for

 

[H@xtGSX]

So you are running a subaru td06h hotside? What manifold are you using? Are you still using an interal flapper? seems to me like a lot of custom work to make it happen. Custom manifold, o2 housing, downpipe. Maybe compressor cover modification.

BTW, FP sells a 8cm hotside 295 they priced it at. there was also talk of a group buy a couple weeks back on this subject. I would contact FP and see when they are going to do it.

My 18g is an MHI turbo with a TD05H turbine in the same compressor and 7 cm turbine housing used for MHI 16g's. I am looking into switching it to an 8 or 9 cm turbine housing and a 3" inlet TD06 compressor housing though. Kinugawa makes nicely finished components, so those are the parts I am considering. I have seen a couple of the Kinugawa turbos in person and they seem to be the quality of an MHI turbo. The machining looks nice and smooth, and the tolerances look and feel just as tight as my MHI. They are made in Japan and have none of the sloppy characteristics of the Chinabay junk, from what I have seen. There is a guy here with a complete Kinugawa 16g with a twin scroll on a WRX. He has been beating the crap out of it for about 30K miles, and it is still just as tight as my 18g is, which is practically new condition with only a few thousand miles on it. I bought my 18g from Justin W. on here, and he made sure it was perfect. The next turbo I buy will likely be one of the Kinugawa units, just because I want to see how well it holds up to a DSM beatdown.

 

[polarmoment]

No, syty's came with a td06 8cm 17c turbo.

That's what my turbo started its life as.

Kinugawa makes nicely finished components, so those are the parts I am considering. I have seen a couple of the Kinugawa turbos in person and they seem to be the quality of an MHI turbo. The machining looks nice and smooth, and the tolerances look and feel just as tight as my MHI.

I upgraded that syty turbo to a kinugawa 20g wheel/05 housing. That's where the surge problems came from. At sea level, it would spool (on a TD06 turbine, mind you) just above 3000rpm. There's more lag up here in CO, but it would still surge badly in higher gears so I swapped back a step to an 18g/06 combo. I don't have a TD06 housing to try the 20g wheel in, maybe that would completely solve the problem (I have 2 TD06 18g housings though, ). I'd rather find a billet wheel with a wider compressor map that can handle the 05 housing, however, because of how much faster the turbo builds boost.

I wish I could find a syty turbine housing in 8cm for the TD05h wheel. It wouldn't make as much power, but it would be a hell of a lot more fun to drive in the mountains.

 

[Ppayer38]

I have the Evo 3 16g 10 Blade extended tip billet compressor wheel from them that ill be putting in very soon to test out and see how this goes.... also will try the 6 blade ET wheel to see if there is a difference and where its at. this will be on my 05 WRX but its close enough to give results for what to expect

 

[H@xtGSX]

I have seen very few bad reviews of their parts, no more so than any of the name brand turbos anyhow... They are pretty popular with the Austrailians right now. For the price, I think they're worth a try. The stuff I have seen in person looked to be very good quality. We shall see how well they hold up as more people have them for extended periods of time though. A hundred bucks for a new housing that looks great and fits how it is supposed to is a good deal to me, so I will be a guinea pig too soon.

 

[polarmoment]

The housings aren't really a gamble, IMO. You either machine it correctly or you don't, and it's not a rotating part so the incidence of failure for the housings should be low to zero. I've never had an issue with their compressor wheels, quality-wise, but I've only been running them for about 3 years...

I guess my point thus far with these billet wheels is that I've yet to see a single compressor map for them. There's a lot of "it should flow more" and "it should spool faster" but I'm wondering what the changes in blade aero do to the surge line and efficiency of the wheel. "Flows more and spools faster" is largely worthless if it shifts the surge line to a portion of the map where our engines operate. I'm assuming these are largely copied from the new aero on BW's and garrett's turbos, but there has to be some massaging to get them to fit inside the MHI footprint and I'm curious what effect that has on the wheel's map overall..

 

[94awdcoupe]

The housings aren't really a gamble, IMO. You either machine it correctly or you don't, and it's not a rotating part so the incidence of failure for the housings should be low to zero. I've never had an issue with their compressor wheels, quality-wise, but I've only been running them for about 3 years...

I guess my point thus far with these billet wheels is that I've yet to see a single compressor map for them. There's a lot of "it should flow more" and "it should spool faster" but I'm wondering what the changes in blade aero do to the surge line and efficiency of the wheel. "Flows more and spools faster" is largely worthless if it shifts the surge line to a portion of the map where our engines operate. I'm assuming these are largely copied from the new aero on BW's and garrett's turbos, but there has to be some massaging to get them to fit inside the MHI footprint and I'm curious what effect that has on the wheel's map overall..

dont hold your breath on ant maps for these wheels. it costs around 7000 usd to get a map on a turbo. its not a simple process at all. if you do see a map I wouls stay away as it is likely just made from thin air.

 

[Michael@FP]

Extreme tuners is working on a extremely thin magnesium wheel, so i'm sure we will see more surface area in the near future.

I remember the MHI EVO magnesium wheel turbos really popular with the Rally crowd the compressor wheel would usually fail so spectacularly that what they could find of it usually showed up in a zip lock back along with the turbo.

 

[H@xtGSX]

Yea, I saw this happen to a car at the Pikes Peak hill climb. Mag wheel exploded like it was made of C4 and took the compressor housing out with it. It pretty much screwed the turbo up beyond repair. But... They are beating the hell out of them. I would bet some standard wheels would break under those conditions, just not so violently.

 

[polarmoment]

Yea, I saw this happen to a car at the Pikes Peak hill climb. Mag wheel exploded like it was made of C4 and took the compressor housing out with it. It pretty much screwed the turbo up beyond repair. But... They are beating the hell out of them. I would bet some standard wheels would break under those conditions, just not so violently.

Apparently they didn't read Garrett's white paper #2 on Burst and Containment

The champ car guys have exploded Ti compressor wheels though. From what I read, it blew the back of the car apart.



Back on topic though- I think these billet wheels will likely require anti-surge housings. If you look at all the turbos they're modeled after (BW, Garrett GTX, etc) they all use anti-surge housings. Only one that doesn't seems to be the HTA68. I'm surprised that thing can live in a TD05 comp housing without surging.

 

[H@xtGSX]

The only one I have ever seen was on an H22, and it surged...

I think the anti surge housings are nice to have anyhow... I don't NEED one with this 18g, but...

 

[polarmoment]

I also have my doubts about whether these billet wheels are going to spool faster.

This guy lists weight as 70.5g: 20g Billet Compressor Wheel OE Interchangeable 11 Blade with Extended Tip TD05 | eBay

That's actually quite a bit heavier than most of the new cast wheels. For example:

MHI big16g: 70g
MHI 17c: 68g
Kamak cast 18g (straight blade): 57g
Kamak cast 20g (swept blade): 61g

And the center hubs on the kamak wheels aren't much larger than the billet wheels.

Kawasaki's catalog doesn't list weights, but does list that they're either GTX style wheel or EFR style wheel. I did ask them for some weight specs on their 20g wheels.


Edit: it also seems that kamak has stopped selling the shrouded anti-surge housing. The only AS housings I can find now are the drilled ones that supposedly don't work as well.

 

[94awdcoupe]

I got the weight specs from kawasaki already. But I also got some dimensions as well. Their new wheels are a good bit bigger so they are gonna be heavier. The material is 2024.

stock evo 16g 57g
stock 20g MHI 72g
kawasaki 20g wheels:
stock 6/6 is 61g (and its bigger than stock 20g)
ext tip 6/6 is 74g (lots bigger than stock 20g)
ext tip 7/7 is 79g
ext tip 11 is 76g

now for some dimensions. like I said these wheels are bigger. stock hub length mhi 16g/20g is 31.5mm. kawasaki ext tip hubs are 35.2mm.

blade height (taller towards nut)
stock MHI 16g/20g is 21mm
kaw 6/6 is 23.2mm
ext tip 6/6 is 29.2mm
ext tip 7/7 is 29.0mm
ext tip 11 is 29.0mm

The extended tip wheels are gonna flow some good air. they do weigh more due to extra blade area. Dont bother mating one of these extended tip wheels to 5h turbine. At least I wouldnt. These should reach 52-54lbs flow .

 

[polarmoment]

The newer swept version of the kamak 20g is also taller by a couple mm. Looks like their "stock" 6/6 is about the same spec as the kamak wheel, and the same weight.

I guess I'm a different demographic then. I don't want more flow out of the 20g, I want similar flow with better spool and no surge.

 

[carvinbassplyr]

The newer swept version of the kamak 20g is also taller by a couple mm. Looks like their "stock" 6/6 is about the same spec as the kamak wheel, and the same weight.

I guess I'm a different demographic then. I don't want more flow out of the 20g, I want similar flow with better spool and no surge.

I'm with you! I thought the gain of billet wheels was that they could machine them thinner with more aggressive blade design because of the stronger metal giving the wheel more surface and making them lighter. The weight savings was supposed to help them spool faster and the increased surface area/more aggressive aero resulted in them flowing more air, which would be a win/win. Guess I was VERY mistaken.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

I ran a kamak 20g turbo on my Evo 8. It had the 10.5 twin scroll evo housing and a TD06sl2 turbine wheel. I ran 11.8 @ 116 in my full weight 05 SSL gsr on 26 pounds of boost and 93 octane. This is with lifting during shifts and only launch control aid. I was very happy with the turbo. The power kept climbing as I increased the boost, but it didn't get too happy on pumpgas at this point. Highest recorded power was 440 ft/lbs and 436 whp at 29psi. HP would have been more, but I got off the gas pedal when I looked down at my boost gauge.

The only gripe I had was surge. I did have a ported shroud cover, but it would still surge a little in fourth and a ton in 5th gear.

 

[carvinbassplyr]

I ran a kamak 20g turbo on my Evo 8. It had the 10.5 twin scroll evo housing and a TD06sl2 turbine wheel. I ran 11.8 @ 116 in my full weight 05 SSL gsr on 26 pounds of boost and 93 octane. This is with lifting during shifts and only launch control aid. I was very happy with the turbo. The power kept climbing as I increased the boost, but it didn't get too happy on pumpgas at this point. Highest recorded power was 440 ft/lbs and 436 whp at 29psi. HP would have been more, but I got off the gas pedal when I looked down at my boost gauge.

The only gripe I had was surge. I did have a ported shroud cover, but it would still surge a little in fourth and a ton in 5th gear.

My plan for my next turbo was to fit an MHI 20G with a Kamak billet wheel and 9 blade turbine in a 7cm housing. But if there's no spool gains from the billet wheel then I don't see the point.

 

[polarmoment]

Kamak's billet wheel is a 5/5. I'm inclined to think it should flow like a 20g but spool like the cast wheel without the surge (maybe even quicker- less blades=less weight).

My reasoning for this line of thought was something I read on here or EvoM from FP about the older (I assume it's older, I don't keep up with Evo stuff) Evo Green wheel, and how they were having issues with surge on a 6/6 wheel so they went down to a 5/5 wheel and the surge went away without any real penalty in top end. I wish I could remember where I read it so I could post a reference to it. I could also be mistaken, but I usually store tidbits like that away when I read them for occasions like this.

I'd like to try the billet 5/5 in a TD05 housing with the STS in an 8cm housing too, but I don't think they make a syty 8cm TD05 turbine housing.

 

[94awdcoupe]

I have the evo fp 5/5 blade here as well. they did surge just as bad as the 20g wheel from reading feedback on them on evolution forums. . the blade is 51 inducer/ 69 exducer. and the blades are 24.5mm tall. the new kamak 5/5 is not yet being sold seperately. and the whole turbo is stupid pricey. but it has very tall blades as well. by theory taller blades reduces surge.

the kamak swept blade looks like stock blade height to me. maybe you could measure?
kamak. kawasaki, kawasaki extended tip..

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

also the 11 blade 20g from pure turbos appears tp be the kawasaki product. he does also offer the 6/6 and 7/7 versions. annoying there is a descrepancy in weights though. pure turbo lists the 11 blade at 70.5 grams. and the weight i got from Jiro from kawasaki is 76 grams. so not sure what is going on there?

 

[carvinbassplyr]

I have the evo fp 5/5 blade here as well. they did surge just as bad as the 20g wheel from reading feedback on them on evolution forums. . the blade is 51 inducer/ 69 exducer. and the blades are 24.5mm tall. the new kamak 5/5 is not yet being sold seperately. and the whole turbo is stupid pricey. but it has very tall blades as well. by theory taller blades reduces surge.

the kamak swept blade looks like stock blade height to me. maybe you could measure?
kamak. kawasaki, kawasaki extended tip..

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

also the 11 blade 20g from pure turbos appears tp be the kawasaki product. he does also offer the 6/6 and 7/7 versions. annoying there is a descrepancy in weights though. pure turbo lists the 11 blade at 70.5 grams. and the weight i got from Jiro from kawasaki is 76 grams. so not sure what is going on there?

Maybe the Kamak would still suit my purpose then...anyone know the weight of these vs a stock MHI 20G wheel? Ideally the flow of a 20G w/the spool of a 16G is what I'm after.

 

[RWD4G63]

All of Pure Turbo's wheels are Kawasaki wheels. They have identical pictures on facebook.

 

[bastarddsm]

Hey, I hate to break it to you, but if you think loosing 10g off a compressor wheel is going to even noticeably affect you're spool times, you're in for some serious disappointment. It's obvious that the weight is mostly taken off the hub, where it will have the least affect.