Bigger turbo stage 2 option???

[Slippi84]

You need to update your profile or something. I can't fathom the need for secondary injectors while you're still N/A..

OP- You need to do some research before you go boosting 25+psi. The timing WILL adavnce. . Once that happens your built motor is probably going to shit out on ya. I still say MSnS.

Anyone on here who knows anything about tuning these cars will tell you spark is where the power is. If you want the most HP, MSnS can get you there will full/direct fuel AND ignition control. It's 2 necessities in one for a fraction of the price. Even with dyno time and tuning, it's still not going to break the bank as much as a portfueler and MIS-d2 would.

I'm sorry for missleading you into thinking I"m new to tuning or don't understand tuning. For the most part I tuned my own dsmlink tsi and before that safc for me and a couple friends so trust me I understand timing advance and the affect it has on a engine. Your looking at one aspect of these othe products other than ms and comparing them to it. DIS-2 increases spark strength and makes running more boost without timing knock from spark blowout less likely yet I have not heard you say anything about that. The portfueller takes care pf tuning and fuel in one step. You get injectors afpr and a tuning device in one product. So lets see tuning fuel and ignition without having to read the bible and chance blowing up your engine because you don't understand what you read sounds like it's worth it.

 

[4UH8ERS]

You need to update your profile or something. I can't fathom the need for secondary injectors while you're still N/A.. .

Dude, I have the freaking electric leafblower mod you douche!

profile updated

OP- You need to do some research before you go boosting 25+psi. The timing WILL adavnce. . Once that happens your built motor is probably going to shit out on ya. I still say MSnS.

Anyone on here who knows anything about tuning these cars will tell you spark is where the power is. If you want the most HP, MSnS can get you there will full/direct fuel AND ignition control. It's 2 necessities in one for a fraction of the price. Even with dyno time and tuning, it's still not going to break the bank as much as a portfueler and MIS-d2 would.

I never said timing wont advance at 25+psi.
I never said anything about portfueler bieng superior to MS i actually said just the opposite.
I only mentioned my personal preference due to the simplicity. I most definately think MSnS-E is far superior to portfueler.

 

[Blitzeclips]

I'm sorry for missleading you into thinking I"m new to tuning or don't understand tuning.

Obviously not if you think the ECU still controls fuel under boost. I'm saying do your research for our cars before you go boosting around town at 25psi. . It's not like a 4g63.

You're right. I didn't say anything about the DS2 controlled ignition and spark. But I did say it would cost a whole hell of alot more then MSnS. I'd rather research and install for a week to save $1500 then spend it and do it in a couple hours. To each his own. But as far as cost effectiveness, MSnS is superior.

 

[Slippi84]

I'm sorry for missleading you into thinking I"m new to tuning or don't understand tuning. QUOTE]

Obviously not if you think the ECU still controls fuel under boost. I'm saying do your research for our cars before you go boosting around town at 25psi. . It's not like a 4g63.

You're right. I didn't say anything about the DS2 controlled ignition and spark. But I did say it would cost a whole hell of alot more then MSnS. I'd rather research and install for a week to save $1500 then spend it and do it in a couple hours. To each his own. But as far as cost effectiveness, MSnS is superior.

I don't remember saying the ecu controls fuel under boost but anyway... cost effectivness favors MS maybe just for tuning but as soon as you have to buy afpr bigger injectors and something else that will do what dis-2 does to strengthen spark(which is pretty much just dis-2) your at the same price so how is it more cost effective.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

You need bigger injectors and an AFPR in both cases; it's not really fair to compare those costs with only MS. So... lets do a breakdown:



$450.00 MSD-DIS 2
$800.00 PortFueler (includes AFPR + injectors)

TOTAL $1250.00




$400.00 ($200.00 if you build it yourself) MSnS-E
$130.00 AFPR
$300.00 Injectors
$150.00 MS Sensor & misc. install components

TOTAL $980.00



I don't know how you can say MSnS-E doesn't cost much less than MSD-DIS2/PortFueler... I was really estimating high on MSnS-E's part, just to give you benefit of the doubt. It can be had, and installed for much less than what I wrote. Plus the ease of tuning and expandability is unparalleled. Furthermore, the spark output is more than enough to support boost levels upward of 40psi; and even so, if the spark were too weak, you'd just upgrade the coil pack to something non-standard.

 

[Blitzeclips]

You need bigger injectors and an AFPR in both cases; it's not really fair to compare those costs with only MS. So... lets do a breakdown:



$450.00 MSD-DIS 2
$800.00 PortFueler (includes AFPR + injectors)

TOTAL $1250.00




$400.00 ($200.00 if you build it yourself) MSnS-E
$130.00 AFPR
$300.00 Injectors
$150.00 MS Sensor & misc. install components

TOTAL $980.00



I don't know how you can say MSnS-E doesn't cost much less than MSD-DIS2/PortFueler... I was really estimating high on MSnS-E's part, just to give you benefit of the doubt. It can be had, and installed for much less than what I wrote. Plus the ease of tuning and expandability is unparalleled. Furthermore, the spark output is more than enough to support boost levels upward of 40psi; and even so, if the spark were too weak, you'd just upgrade the coil pack to something non-standard.

I was just in the process of doing that. Hah. Good timing.

 

[XMasta19]

I paid:

MSnS with harness, sensors, etc: $350
75lb/hr siemens deka injector x4: $250
Aeromotive 1:1 fuel regulator: $125


That's only $725 and could have been even cheaper if I wasn't pressed for time and built my own board and harness instead. Paul was definitely over estimating for your benefit.

 

[BigRand]

I dunno this is how I personally feel about going from a stock block to a built block in terms of fuel setup and turbo setup.

Anything under 9psi

I would stick with wastegate spring set to whatever boost level u want.
FMU, and stock injectors.
cheap and easy to install.

When you go with more boost and built motor,

upgraded turbo is a possibility depending how much power and where you want your power band.

MSnS Extra
AFPR
and bigger injectors.

To be completely honest about MS, I was terrified before I started, however I did have a friend close by that understood the board and certain setup things, however I believe that I could have done it all myself given the time

 

[Slippi84]

You need bigger injectors and an AFPR in both cases; it's not really fair to compare those costs with only MS. So... lets do a breakdown:



$450.00 MSD-DIS 2
$800.00 PortFueler (includes AFPR + injectors)

TOTAL $1250.00




$400.00 ($200.00 if you build it yourself) MSnS-E
$130.00 AFPR
$300.00 Injectors
$150.00 MS Sensor & misc. install components

TOTAL $980.00



I don't know how you can say MSnS-E doesn't cost much less than MSD-DIS2/PortFueler... I was really estimating high on MSnS-E's part, just to give you benefit of the doubt. It can be had, and installed for much less than what I wrote. Plus the ease of tuning and expandability is unparalleled. Furthermore, the spark output is more than enough to support boost levels upward of 40psi; and even so, if the spark were too weak, you'd just upgrade the coil pack to something non-standard.

Even though I disagree with some of the prices you have up as I have bought stuff for cheaper and other stuff is def more look at the big picture to some people 300 dollars to not have to worry about learning how to build a tuning setup from scratch or learn exactly how it works is worth it.

 

[Slippi84]

I paid:

MSnS with harness, sensors, etc: $350
75lb/hr siemens deka injector x4: $250
Aeromotive 1:1 fuel regulator: $125


That's only $725 and could have been even cheaper if I wasn't pressed for time and built my own board and harness instead. Paul was definitely over estimating for your benefit.

Congrats I"m golad you saved a buck portfueller and msd dis2 just went on ebay 2 weeks ago for 900 so that's 725-900 even closer then before


Edit: Ok guys I can see MS is the red buton and a lot of your favor it over everything else for good reasons it sounds cheap and effective but for some spending the money is worth the less aggrivation. DSMlink as a complete setup will cost you just over 1k EMS is about $1300 Dsmlink is cheaper but why do people still use ems?????

 

[Shadow98]

Not to high-jack the tread, but since I got a '95 2g n/t and don't need a FCD, does my ECU read boost? Probaly a stupid question, but curious...

 

[Locke]

It won't respond to anything over atmospheric.

 

[BigRand]

Congrats I"m golad you saved a buck portfueller and msd dis2 just went on ebay 2 weeks ago for 900 so that's 725-900 even closer then before


Edit: Ok guys I can see MS is the red buton and a lot of your favor it over everything else for good reasons it sounds cheap and effective but for some spending the money is worth the less aggrivation. DSMlink as a complete setup will cost you just over 1k EMS is about $1300 Dsmlink is cheaper but why do people still use ems?????

Well I don't think I agree with you on pricing dsmlink that high and an AEM EMS priced that low.

I'm assuming (correct me if I'm wrong) that when you priced dsmlink at 1k, you included injectors, and wideband and afpr? Which are all things you need to add to the EMS, however EMS is simply PLUG AND PLAY, which is huge convience....but that is luxury we don't have with the 420a setup. (YET).

I won't even say that MS is a better system then porterfuler, because we have guys like AWDdynamite and bill hahn, obviously running super fast on it.

I just think you so much more for less, and if your not willing to read what it takes to understand some of the simple concepts involved with tuning the MS, then your not going to be able to tune the porterfuler for 400+ horsepower either.

All of the setup stuff is widely availible for MS, just make a few tweaks here and there if you can start with someone elses base map and settings.

And if you can tune on your own using DSMlink or AEM EMS, then you can probably tune an MS system, and if your only comfortable tuning a SAFC, then read up on EFI101 and get some knowledge and progress to that higher level.

If there is one thing I learned about working on/tuning a 420a turbo, is that nothing was made to work "easily" on our cars compared to others.

 

[Slippi84]

Well I don't think I agree with you on pricing dsmlink that high and an AEM EMS priced that low.

I'm assuming (correct me if I'm wrong) that when you priced dsmlink at 1k, you included injectors, and wideband and afpr? Which are all things you need to add to the EMS, however EMS is simply PLUG AND PLAY, which is huge convience....but that is luxury we don't have with the 420a setup. (YET).

I won't even say that MS is a better system then porterfuler, because we have guys like AWDdynamite and bill hahn, obviously running super fast on it.

I just think you so much more for less, and if your not willing to read what it takes to understand some of the simple concepts involved with tuning the MS, then your not going to be able to tune the porterfuler for 400+ horsepower either.

All of the setup stuff is widely availible for MS, just make a few tweaks here and there if you can start with someone elses base map and settings.

And if you can tune on your own using DSMlink or AEM EMS, then you can probably tune an MS system, and if your only comfortable tuning a SAFC, then read up on EFI101 and get some knowledge and progress to that higher level.

If there is one thing I learned about working on/tuning a 420a turbo, is that nothing was made to work "easily" on our cars compared to others.

eprom ecu $300
chipp eprom ecu $40
laptop 100-.....(depending on how good a laptop you want but we'll just leave it at 100)
dsmlink $550

Grand total $990 just to give you 420a guys how the other side lives

ANyway don't get me wrong guys I'm not saying for me that portfueller is more cost effective as I know how to tune but when I make statements I don't just consider myself or the people in the know I think about the other 75% who don't know how to tune at all because they never had to.

 

[XMasta19]

You're arguing a moot point. The MS is not that hard to figure out, everyone just makes a big deal out of it. If you can't take the little time to read and talk with the others who know what's up, then you don't even deserve to own a boosted 420a. Tuning is tuning, megasquirt just has the ability to get way more in depth than anything else for our platform, that doesn't mean you have to start that deep at first. You get a basic map from any of the guys running a setup near yours, you run fuel only and tweek it that way from the beginning to get the hang of megatune. Then you just proceed from there, eventually adding the spark control and really squeezing out the major power potential within

 

[Slippi84]

You're arguing a moot point. The MS is not that hard to figure out, everyone just makes a big deal out of it. If you can't take the little time to read and talk with the others who know what's up, then you don't even deserve to own a boosted 420a. Tuning is tuning, megasquirt just has the ability to get way more in depth than anything else for our platform, that doesn't mean you have to start that deep at first. You get a basic map from any of the guys running a setup near yours, you run fuel only and tweek it that way from the beginning to get the hang of megatune. Then you just proceed from there, eventually adding the spark control and really squeezing out the major power potential within

Chill with that no one on here is big enought to tell anyone who does and doesn't deserve to own a boosted 420a. Unless you want to buy a guys car for him you can't tell him anything about it just suggest and give advice. Anyway back on track without learning how to effectively control timing MS isn't being utilized and thus not making it better then portfueller which we all know it is once you figure everything out. Your looking to much into this ms > portfueller Portfueller easier than MS that's it.

 

[eclipsers-t]

Any MS guys on here over 400whp?

I only know of two Portfueler guys over 400whp and they were already mentioned.

Just curious.

 

[BigRand]

Any MS guys on here over 400whp?

I only know of two Portfueler guys over 400whp and they were already mentioned.

Just curious.

you'll probably find them on 2gnt.com

however gimmie 790cc injectors I'd have my car closer to 400 to the crank, maybe more.

Bigger turbo and 850cc injecotors I could do it for sure. (if that was my goal)...................BUT THATS ENOUGH BENCH HORSEPOWER TALKING FROM ME YA KNOW

My buddy Xceler8 has a real good shot of putting down that much on V2.2 board of MS, I think thats his goal, and when he does I'll pass the word on.