Bigger turbo stage 2 option???

[Slippi84]

Ok I'm trying to figure out wether or not I can safely put a bigger turbo on a stage 2 kit to get my car to close to 250whp without the piston lands going or something else bad happening. My logic is that the stock bottome end can't handle more then like 8-10psi depending on tune and what not so why not just use a bigger turbo where I still run 8-10psi but make a little more power with the sacrafice of a little more lag. The thing is if it's not just boost that makes the lands go then this is useless and it's better just to stick with a small 16g sized turbo. I have a walbro 255hp and was checking out the portfueler kit so fuel isn't a problem but I just want to make sure the stock bottom end will be ok with say a 20g/fp green sized turbo at like 8-10psi.

 

[Blitzeclips]

Ok I'm trying to figure out wether or not I can safely put a bigger turbo on a stage 2 kit to get my car to close to 250whp without the piston lands going or something else bad happening. My logic is that the stock bottome end can't handle more then like 8-10psi depending on tune and what not so why not just use a bigger turbo where I still run 8-10psi but make a little more power with the sacrafice of a little more lag. The thing is if it's not just boost that makes the lands go then this is useless and it's better just to stick with a small 16g sized turbo. I have a walbro 255hp and was checking out the portfueler kit so fuel isn't a problem but I just want to make sure the stock bottom end will be ok with say a 20g/fp green sized turbo at like 8-10psi.

Well, I can't say I wouldn't upgrade to the 20G. I love mine. I'd recommend it to anybody. Little bit of lag, but once it hits boost you start moving pretty good.

I don't know man. Do you really think the extra $1200 for the Portfueler is worth it for the extra 2psi?

 

[Slippi84]

Well, I can't say I wouldn't upgrade to the 20G. I love mine. I'd recommend it to anybody. Little bit of lag, but once it hits boost you start moving pretty good.

I don't know man. Do you really think the extra $1200 for the Portfueler is worth it for the extra 2psi?

Naw man you gotta see the big picture and look down the road. I learned with my tsi you never are satisfied. People will always grow tired of the same thing and want more. $1200 to run 2psi now then engine rebuild time forged pistons rods ect. and a bigger turbo and your looking at $1200 for $20psi and half the headaches of trying to make the car run as a megasquirt. I am a overkill kinda guy in things where I can afford to be.

On another note that 2psi and a larger turbo could turn out to be anopther 25-40whp and that would make it worth it.

 

[BigRand]

Its not the boost pressure that is set to the turbo, as it the airflow (cfm) and the load put on the motor for a period of time that likes to push ring lands, rip rods, and break bearings.

Slapping a bigger turbo that pushes more air, would probably lower the amount of boost that you can safely run on the stock block.


IMO: if you got that impulse man, you might as well either start building a second motor ready to handle boost, or start looking into that 1g you've been talking about in other threads.


Anyways for to answer your question: t3-t4 w/ a 60trim, ball bearing of course, would be my choice.

 

[Slippi84]

Its not the boost pressure that is set to the turbo, as it the airflow (cfm) and the load put on the motor for a period of time that likes to push ring lands, rip rods, and break bearings.

Slapping a bigger turbo that pushes more air, would probably lower the amount of boost that you can safely run on the stock block.


IMO: if you got that impulse man, you might as well either start building a second motor ready to handle boost, or start looking into that 1g you've been talking about in other threads.


Anyways for to answer your question: t3-t4 w/ a 60trim, ball bearing of course, would be my choice.

Ok that's what I was curious about wether it was the amount of boost or the amount of air flow but I guess they are directly related and one will determine he other. In that case does 200whp with a stage 2 kit sound resonable.

 

[eclipsers-t]

In that case does 200whp with a stage 2 kit sound resonable.

What are you considering a "stage 2 kit?"

Hahn's stage 2 kit will get you 200 to the wheels.

 

[Blitzeclips]

Naw man you gotta see the big picture and look down the road. I learned with my tsi you never are satisfied. People will always grow tired of the same thing and want more. $1200 to run 2psi now then engine rebuild time forged pistons rods ect. and a bigger turbo and your looking at $1200 for $20psi and half the headaches of trying to make the car run as a megasquirt. I am a overkill kinda guy in things where I can afford to be.

On another note that 2psi and a larger turbo could turn out to be anopther 25-40whp and that would make it worth it.

Have you ever checked my vehicle profile? I know this. But you never mentioned rebuilding the block entirely or anything like that. That's not relevant to your original post. You said you were considering the Portfueler for the extra 2 psi going from 8 to 10. To build the motor and go the whole nine yards is going to cost you atleast double what you pay for the Portfueler. That's why I can't understand why you'd spend the extra $1200 for 2 psi on a stock block. 25-45WHP? I think thats a bit optimistic...

 

[Slippi84]

Have you ever checked my vehicle profile? I know this. But you never mentioned rebuilding the block entirely or anything like that. That's not relevant to your original post. You said you were considering the Portfueler for the extra 2 psi going from 8 to 10. To build the motor and go the whole nine yards is going to cost you atleast double what you pay for the Portfueler. That's why I can't understand why you'd spend the extra $1200 for 2 psi on a stock block. 25-45WHP? I think thats a bit optimistic...

Sorry for not makin that clear. I never mod with the intension of just doing one step up and stopping there. Because when I want to take it to the next level I have to buy new stuff all over instead of only upgrading the key ingredients. 2psi same turbo and 25whp your right not happening but the diffrence between 16g@ 8psi and say a 20g@ 10psi which I have learned probably isn't even possible with stock stuff would be right about there.

 

[Slippi84]

I was thinking 20g portfueler walbro 255 fmic @ 8psi for a stage 2 with the goal of 200whp

Then later on going with a built bottom end and going to like 15-20psi and aiming for like 300-350whp but that would probably be about as crazy as I would get with a non awd car

 

[BigRand]

200whp with a 20g at 8psi using porterfueler you should hit no problem.

Does anyone have any flow rate comparisions between a 20g and a t3-t4 w/ say a standard 50trim?

I just have this feeling, your going to want an even bigger turbo for later on.

 

[Slippi84]

200whp with a 20g at 8psi using porterfueler you should hit no problem.

Does anyone have any flow rate comparisions between a 20g and a t3-t4 w/ say a standard 50trim?

I just have this feeling, your going to want an even bigger turbo for later on.

Yeah to be honest I was thinking about just buying the fp green and trying to find a log style with a mitsu hook up.

 

[BigRand]

Yeah to be honest I was thinking about just buying the fp green and trying to find a log style with a mitsu hook up.

yeah you might have to go with that hahn manifold for the log style and mitsu flange idea, but couldn't you get the fp green in a t3 or t4 flange?

 

[Slippi84]

yeah you might have to go with that hahn manifold for the log style and mitsu flange idea, but couldn't you get the fp green in a t3 or t4 flange?

It's not a selectable option on their site it may be able to be made by simply purchasing a seperate housing or getting it custom made by them but then it kinda kills the cost offective aspect of the green. The green is known as a great bolt on turbo that is great on pump not as much a big t3 t4 beast. I used to run a pte 50 trim on my tsi it was a great turbo. I'd like to run the fp3105 but here's the problem

"The result of the research is our race inspired totally symetric volute scaled to perfectly match the dimensions of the GT30 turbine wheel. This larger housing incorporates a built in wastegate mount which offers simplified installation without compromising boost control like inferior internal wastegates. Boost pressure can be set as low as 14psi without ANY boost creeping at higher RPM. "

That won't fly without a built bottom end so I have to figure out how to run at more like 8-10psi or wait till i'm built to pick her up.

 

[4UH8ERS]

That won't fly without a built bottom end so I have to figure out how to run at more like 8-10psi or wait till i'm built to pick her up.

If versatility is what your looking for then you need to think 20g and portfueler like previously stated. You can buy the s20g with an 8psi wastegate actuator and can easily bump that up later on with a boost controller. The portfueler with tuning software is easily programmable with a laptop. You can run 8psi for as long as you need, then when the time comes you have the potential to safely tune over 25psi with the portfueler on a 20g. Only requirement will be to purchase a larger set of injectors for the secondaries. Not to mention you can purchase the 20g from hahn with a t3 flange (if you plan on using pauls manifold) or an MHI flange. Just food for thought.

 

[Slippi84]

If versatility is what your looking for then you need to think 20g and portfueler like previously stated. You can buy the s20g with an 8psi wastegate actuator and can easily bump that up later on with a boost controller. The portfueler with tuning software is easily programmable with a laptop. You can run 8psi for as long as you need, then when the time comes you have the potential to safely tune over 25psi with the portfueler on a 20g. Only requirement will be to purchase a larger set of injectors for the secondaries. Not to mention you can purchase the 20g from hahn with a t3 flange (if you plan on using pauls manifold) or an MHI flange. Just food for thought.

Hmm I didn't think that the portfueller would be that good to support 35psi on a 20g. I am still researching the portfueller setup what a/f or setting does it strive for in which it determines how much fuel to inject cause if it runs of the stock o2 sensor I was thinking about hooking up my lm-1 and having it wideband track somehow and act like the maft gen2.

 

[4UH8ERS]

Hmm I didn't think that the portfueller would be that good to support 35psi on a 20g..

i said 25psi not 35.

I am still researching the portfueller setup what a/f or setting does it strive for in which it determines how much fuel to inject cause if it runs of the stock o2 sensor .

The portfueler module has built in datalogging capabilities. You use boost pressure and RPM's to adjust injector pulse.

I was thinking about hooking up my lm-1 and having it wideband track somehow and act like the maft gen2.

don't really have a clue what your saying on this question.

 

[Blitzeclips]

Food for thought. The internal wastegate on a 20g can be modified for lower boost. Mine was set for 14psi but I've modded it for 8psi.

 

[Slippi84]

i said 25psi not 35.



The portfueler module has built in datalogging capabilities. You use boost pressure and RPM's to adjust injector pulse.



don't really have a clue what your saying on this question.

Sorry def a typo on the 35psi I meant 25psi and the portfueller is loaded based fuel enrichment that's bad ass. You know how fast a 4g63t guy would kill for loaded bases tuning that easy to install and tune. See the problem with dsmlink and everthing else is it uses a/f ratio and rpm and somewhat timing to control fuel but the thing is you can there are so many variables that can affect a/f ratio but boost is boost.



Edit: I was talking about having the portfueller use a wideband signal instead of a narrow band signal but since it's loaded based then it really doesn't matter.

 

[Blitzeclips]

OK. But what about your ignition? You might advance timing under boost like that. You need spark control.

 

[Slippi84]

OK. But what about your ignition? You might advance timing under boost like that. You need spark control.

WHy would you advance timing your not lying to the ecu to put it into another timing map? The ecu is still getting actuall reaidngs.

 

[BigRand]

WHy would you advance timing your not lying to the ecu to put it into another timing map? The ecu is still getting actuall reaidngs.

Negative, you still have an FCD to clamp the signal on the stock map sensor under boost, otherwise the stock ecu would flip out and introduce fuel cut.

I would talk to the hahn people to see what they did about timing up at high boost levels.

thing is I thought dsmlink could also be run via loaded base as well (boost vs. rpm)

I know megasquirt has the option to run an afr table based off the wideband to make adjustments to the base map..

 

[Slippi84]

Negative, you still have an FCD to clamp the signal on the stock map sensor under boost, otherwise the stock ecu would flip out and introduce fuel cut.

I would talk to the hahn people to see what they did about timing up at high boost levels.

thing is I thought dsmlink could also be run via loaded base as well (boost vs. rpm)

I know megasquirt has the option to run an afr table based off the wideband to make adjustments to the base map..

Nope. Dsmlink has preset adjustment points across the rpm band up to like 8 or 9k that you can adjust fuel in increments of +/-1 like safc but it makes changes at the ecu it doesn't send a false signal like a piggy back although tech it is a piggy back as you still need the stock ecu. Which is why I'm wondering why the portfueller would advance timing so much to where it woudl be a problem. Dsmlink has a fuel cut defender and even without adjusting timing which is done the same way as fuel in +/-1 increments across the same rpm points you still don't have timing advance of a unfavorable nature.

 

[Slippi84]

See my question is what is the portfueller striving for? IS it trying to keep everything at stock stoich or can you tell it what to aim for? Like if it adjust by boost and rpm how does it know how much to inject at a given boost and rpm there has to be something else to it.

 

[4UH8ERS]

See my question is what is the portfueller striving for? IS it trying to keep everything at stock stoich or can you tell it what to aim for? Like if it adjust by boost and rpm how does it know how much to inject at a given boost and rpm there has to be something else to it.

You must 1st take into consideration that until you reach 17+psi timing advance is not that much of an issue. Where as you can easily install a used DIS-2 when you exceed that for about $150 bucks. Then you can retard your timing while on pump gas.

By far the MS is the best all around solution, But having to ditch the stock injectors for when your not making boost and just reading and learning all that freaking MS crap that confuses the hell out of me makes it not really worth it. I mean hell if a year from now Paul finishes a PNP harness for MS and finds a way to install base maps per the customers set-up then I would be more than happy to ditch my portfueler and pay as much as $800 for an ms; but as of right now, I really don't think thats happening anytime soon.

 

[Blitzeclips]

You must 1st take into consideration that until you reach 17+psi timing advance is not that much of an issue. Where as you can easily install a used DIS-2 when you exceed that for about $150 bucks. Then you can retard your timing while on pump gas.

By far the MS is the best all around solution, But having to ditch the stock injectors for when your not making boost and just reading and learning all that freaking MS crap that confuses the hell out of me makes it not really worth it. I mean hell if a year from now Paul finishes a PNP harness for MS and finds a way to install base maps per the customers set-up then I would be more than happy to ditch my portfueler and pay as much as $800 for an ms; but as of right now, I really don't think thats happening anytime soon.

You need to update your profile or something. I can't fathom the need for secondary injectors while you're still N/A..

OP- You need to do some research before you go boosting 25+psi. The timing WILL adavnce. . Once that happens your built motor is probably going to shit out on ya. I still say MSnS.

Anyone on here who knows anything about tuning these cars will tell you spark is where the power is. If you want the most HP, MSnS can get you there will full/direct fuel AND ignition control. It's 2 necessities in one for a fraction of the price. Even with dyno time and tuning, it's still not going to break the bank as much as a portfueler and MIS-d2 would.