balancing a turbo.....

[99gst_racer]

I tore down my 14b the other night because the end cap O-ring was letting oil leak into the compressor housing. I'm considering rebuilding it, but I have a few questions first.

1. Where can I find the cheapest rebuild kit for a 14b?
2. Will I be OK, if I dont have it balanced afterwards? I really dont want to invest that much money into this 14b......
3. Does anyone have an extra, good 14b or 16g center section laying around that they'll sell me?? If so, please PM me....

Thanks in advance.

 

[espinelli]

You can find a rebuild kit should for $100 on ebay. I justed picked up some turbo parts for one of my rebuilds...I talked to Richard @ 815 467 9545. Pretty cool guy and has decent pricing, I forgot the name of the shop.

Below are the steps on how to rebuild a turbo.

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/Turbo-rebuild.html

 

[espinelli]

Just ran across the info for my post above

R&S Distributing
Minooka, IL
Richard
815 467 9545

Another place is
Turbopower
Talk to Cliff
www.turbo-power.com

 

[99gst_racer]

espinelli - Thanks for all your help.

Anyone else have any input for questions #2 and #3??

 

[spooledu1st]

I was under the impression that you have to get the turbo balanced. Try contacting FP I'm sure they can and will help you out

 

[1fast97gsx]

you HAVE to balance it. If you don't it will tear away the thrust bearing and all the shavings will go down your oil drain tube into mr. oil pan and then be floating around in your engine oil / bearings.

 

[jesepes]

I would not have my turbo balanced at a rebuild if neither wheel touched the housing or if it didn't eat a valve, piston, etc. That's just my opinion.

Quick story: I got this td04h mystery turbo and wanted to use it on a non DSM car I have. I opened it and found the turbine wheel had seen damage at the exducer. The damage was minimal and even around the blades. The bearing journals were in excellent shape. I took my rotating assy. to a local revered shop to have it balanced. I got it back and they said it was still in balance. I was surprised because it had some little pieces missing from the blades from the old blown engine, not from them balancing it. Anyway, two things actually happened: they put it on the machine and it was still balanced, or they ripped me off and just told me it was still in balance without ever putting it on the machine. I believe it was still in balance, it surprises me, but it's believable.

It still cost me $42 to have them test it. Which I had already agreed to.

I went to turbocity.com to buy rebuild parts for my 14b. It cost me less than $50. I did not buy a "kit." I bought the parts I needed: bearings, o-rings, and seals. The kit included stuff I didn't need, like a heatshield and thrust washer. Mine were in perfect shape.

Finally, if it was balanced when it came out, it will be balanced when you put it together. (You should have marked the relationship between compressor and turbine.(When they balance turbos, the only do turbine and shaft, when it's balanced they assemble the compressor and then balance the compressor, so if you didn't mark the compressor orientation it's not a huge deal.)) If your turbo lasted 100K mi before it needed rebuilt and has no bearing wear, it should last that long again, and unbalance will not be the reason for eventual failure.

you HAVE to balance it. If you don't it will tear away the thrust bearing and all the shavings will go down your oil drain tube into mr. oil pan and then be floating around in your engine oil / bearings.

Why do you think this?? It didn't "tear away the thrust bearing" the entire time it was in service so far. Why would it do this now? If your answer is: "It will be out of balance now." Then I ask you: "What suddenly makes it out of balance??, and I answer: "Nothing." I feel your input is pure superstition.

(Geeze, I better say this now or I'll be saying it my next post on this thread. Obviously you have to assemle the turbo properly in order for above paragraph to apply. If it was assembled improperly and is out of balance, then it need reassembled properly, NOT balanced again.)

Wow, this turned into a long reply, sorry.
Good luck,
-Jesse

 

[99gst_racer]

I went to turbocity.com to buy rebuild parts for my 14b. It cost me less than $50. I did not buy a "kit." I bought the parts I needed: bearings, o-rings, and seals. The kit included stuff I didn't need, like a heatshield and thrust washer. Mine were in perfect shape.

Excellent, I'll look into this.

You should have marked the relationship between compressor and turbine
Yeah, I did scribe a mark.

What suddenly makes it out of balance?

I did completely disassembly it, but I assure you it will be reassembled correctly.

What exactly is the part that needs balancing and how do they do it?
Thanks for the long reply. The more the marrier (sp?).

 

[jesepes]

Every part that rotates is needed for balancing. This includes turbine and shaft assy., compressor wheel and nut, thrust bushing, and spring plate bushing (one has the compressor-side sealing ring(looks like piston ring but smaller) and the other one simply looks like a flanged bushing.) You do not need the sealing rings or bearings on the rotating assy. since they do not spin.

The way a turbo is balanced is by first putting the turbine-and-shaft assy. on the balancer by itself. Then the balancing machine spins the turbine to a pre-determined speed, and measures the out-of-balance vibration while it is spinning. A strobe light is used along with a mark (usually paint or sealing laquer) painted onto the rotating assy. as a reference point to help identify where the unbalance is. Where the painted mark appears via the strobe lights reflection tells the technician where to remove material in order to correct the out-of-balance situation. This material removal takes some skill and practice to perfect. Taking too much is bad, but taking off very small amounts can make for a tedious and lengthy balancing.

After the turbine-and-shaft has been sucessfully balanced, then the thrust bushing and spring plate bushing are assembled onto the shaft and then the compressor and nut are put on. Then the entire assy. is spun again. This time to take material from the compressor wheel, if necessary, to balance it.

This is not something you can do without the proper equimpent, and I expect it is rather expensive.

Inspect the brass horseshoe-looking piece for a groove where the thrust bushing spins on it, if it is worn (you can feel it with your fingernail) then it will need replaced along with the bushing that rides on it. Inspect both, but mostly the turbine-side, bearing journals on the shaft. If they show signs of wear(again run your fingernail across the shaft, and feel for any grooves) you can still rebuild, but expect a shortened turbo life. A new turbine-and-shaft is around $150. (At least that's the price I found.) Remember to replace both seals(the mini piston rings(be careful assembling the new ones they could break)), both o-rings, and both main bearings (unless you are a cheap bastard like me and measured the tolerances(that I got from turbocity), and found them to be within spec.) I realize that by not replacing them that there MAY be decreased turbo life, but who knows, it may last forever too. Also inspect every part closely before you order to be sure you don't have to make two orders. this will help too

I hope this helps,
Good luck,
-Jesse

 

[UMR98GSX]

Just subscribing but I loved the Bud Light in the pic.. beer and car parts.. does life get any better?

 

[Fattie92]

This is sort of an old thread, but oh well... lets bring it back. Well i found a guy that has a evo 3 16g that has only 3500 miles on it. He was running a blow through set up at the track and sucked in a vacuum line. It banged up the compressor and turbine wheels a bit. The turbo spins like new and has no shaft play. The only thing wrong with the thing is the wheels need to be replaced. Now according to the above posts, all ill have to do is buy the wheels and put them on, with no balancing needed? And where would one fine evo 3 16g wheels? any help would be appreciated!

edit.. ok just reread something.. maybe it does need to be balanced seeing how you are putting on new wheels.

 

[BrokenTsi]

Think about it. Would you do all that work on the turbo and not balance it? You're probably the most thourough (sp?) with installs then most guys and it would bug the hell out of you to not balance it even if it doesn't need it. So just go do it already because you know you're going to anyways.

 

[BrokenTsi]

wow. old thread. Never realized it. So how did the 14b come out when you balanced it?

 

[99gst_racer]

wow. old thread. Never realized it. So how did the 14b come out when you balanced it?

ehh.... I ended up just selling it for parts and buying a T04b......

 

[blue1]

If you want to pull your turbo apart to replace just the sealing rings or thrust washer! before pulling it apart index mark the old rotating assy so it goes back in exactly the the same balance plane and it will be OK! If you have to change a comp wheel or turbine wheel assy get it balanced! I have done this many times and have access to a turbine balance machine and have tried it, you will be OK!

 

[gsxboostin]

Yes....this thread helped me out soo much haha, my EIII b16g's seals went out and all i had to do was read this thread and v faq to do it myself. thanks a lot guys. -matt

 

[babyman0737]

My metal turbine wheel guard is stuck on. When you take off the turbine housing, should the sheetmetal guard be stuck on? I'm afraid to pry it off because I don't want the center part that it's attached on to break.