Automatic Upgrades Info.

[DCVING]

I just recently purchased a 1993 TSI AWD from and OLD man!! The car has 76k miles on it and is in very good shape (photos to come). I used to have a 87 Shelby Z that ran high 12s race trim! My questions are as follows and I thank everyone who can help with any info that will be retained and used for the development of my DCVING DSM AUTO!!
I have done some research and do know a little about these cars so far!
Correct me if I am wrong The 1g autos have smaller turbo, injectors and the ecu is programed for them also! I have also been told the manny is different!!! All of my driving life I have had turbo cars w/mods so I know the concept of getting good power out of a turbo car, I am not familiar with the DSM models ECU capabilaties, like what size injectors I can run or mabey even run a 5spd car ecu in exchange, how much fuel will this computer allow for over BOOST!

1. I want to run the EVO lll turbo what am I going to need to make the install right?
2. 3" downpipe and cat-back is what I will be using Give me some low budget vendors?
3. free mods sound good, has anyone used the Kool Blue air filter fron accel?
4. The tourqe converter will be changed to a high stall and a shift kit what vendors are the best for this?

Remember I am on a budget and want to remain very stock appearing I greatly need You DSM'ers help on any knowledge!

Thanks Jon

 

[-GSX-Falcon]

Im planning on going with a kit that diamondstarmotorsport.com sells. Its a 1g automatc to 16g kit. Comes with an evo3 manifold and everything u will need to install the new evo3 turbo (water/oil lines, bolts etc). Its like $400, not including the turbo.

As far as exhaust a custom built one from a local shop will usually be alot cheaper then a over the net exhaust. But RNRracing has some good prices and quality. It does take awhile to get the product i hear.

Im not too sure about the tranny upgrades. Im looking at about 350 hp...so i hopefully wont have to mess with that. I would recommend a search i know it has been talked about before.

 

[TURFNNSURF]

OK with an AT DSM you have some options in front of you. Keep in mind a couple of things that you have read already, first, that the AT ECU has fuel maps for smaller 390cc injectors so the ECU should be replaced also as well as installing an AFC to tune with. Any 5 speed ECU will have fuel maps for 450cc injectors, Second, the AT cams are designed for a little more low end power so upgrading to MT cams will help also, but Aftermarket cams will be best, cause after 6000rpm stock cams tend to fall off sharply. For fuel tuning of bigger injectors you will need an AFC of some sort from Apexi, unless you are lucky enough to have an ECU with an Eprom chip that can be replaced with a re-programmed chip for bigger injectors.
A turbo upgrade is a necessity, the 1g auto to 16g install kit is also needed. An EVOIII big 16G will be a great upgrade.
Exhaust: RNR has good quality and good pricing but wait time is HIGH, this is due to every downpipe and cat-back being custom made after the order is placed. I waited for the 3" O2 eliminator downpipe, and it was worth it!!! I then had a local shop fab the rest of my 3" exhaust. Expect to pay between $400 to $750 for a GOOD custom exhaust.
Free Mods: Well most are free the rest are almost free. DO THEM ALL, it will help.
MBC: Manual Boost Controller, buy one for between $50 & $150 or make your own from the VFAQ for about $12. Raising the boost from 9 to 11psi stock to 15psi will make the car feel very strong.
Drivetrain: From my research, the stock AT in good repair can take 350 crank HP without much problem. More than that and upgrades are manditory. If your DSM is going to be a "Trailer Queen" than a high stall converter can be installed. My inqueries have delayed my torque converter upgrade, since my car is a daily driver first, and good weather weekend track car second. A Vendo/Sponsor of this site http://www.importperformancetrans.com/ Has great info and AT upgrades for DSM's. You can PM John from IPT on this site at Transdude with questions. Another vendor on the east coast is http://www.levelten.com/ they also have DSM AT upgrades available. My plan as of now is to contact IPT about a shift kit and end clutches first then look into an upgraded torque converter based on my engine mods.
This should be a good start for you for now.. Good luck and Happy tuning!!

 

[DCVING]

Could some one give me the run down of the parts required in doing a 16g install on an automatic 1g?? I think it would be cheaper for me to buy all the parts on my own for I have connections with auto parts stores and get parts at 10% above cost, also list what years these parts would come from!! Thanks Jon

 

[doug]

TURFNNSURF had an excellent post with some good info. In addition to that, I recommend joining the A/T DSM Yahoo group (at.dsm.org should have a pointer). I also recommend the use of fewer exclamation points.

And another site with some good 1G auto stuff is www.plymouthlaser.com.

 

[TURFNNSURF]

DCVING, Here is a picture of my invoice for the parts i needed to install a 16G in my 1G. These parts were bought from DSMotorsports.com and totalled $159.00. I went with all new parts, even for the parts that would work from the old 13g. The oil and coolant lines to and from the turbo are to important to "cheap out" on. Don't mind the 2G listing the same parts are used for the 1G.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[DCVING]

Thanks guys for your help, but still one very important ?, Can I use the stock manifold or should I gat a 2g unit? And another thing can I use the 5spd ECU in place of my Automatic ECU, ( the car has the POWER-ECONOMY) switch? Sorry about those exclaimation points!!!!

 

[doug]

I'm not a 1G guy, but from what I've seen pretty much everybody say, the 2G manifold flows better and is a worthwhile upgrade. And yes, you can use a M/T ECU-- the transmission is controlled by the TCU, so it won't matter.

 

[DCVING]

Thanks for that Info Doug. I need all I can get.

 

[TURFNNSURF]

Definately upgrade to at least a 2G exhaust manifold, and have it ported before installing it. You can also look into an EVOIII exhaust manifold for around $200 they are even better flowing than the 2G's.

 

[Kandy_GSX]

Hey, what HP goals are you going for? 1/4 mile numbers? Anyway, I am running the Evo 16g. You will really like it. I may be upgrading to something bigger next year though. Also, for all your transmission needs, go to www.importperformancetrans.com. John, the guy that is the owner will really help you out. He is good to do business with. I would look into buying a shift kit and end clutch upgrade. Maybe a B&M tranny cooler. If you are gonna run the Evo, get the following. 550cc injectors, 2g exhaust manifold (cheaper than the evo), AFC, Turbo back exhaust, upgrade to a bigger I/C, 2g mas (dont HAVE to), and a pocketlogger. You can get your factory Torque Converter stalled to a higher rpm for around 500. You will be in the 12s with those mods if you have a good tune. Check out the A/T fourm on www.dsmtalk.com. Good luck.

 

[DCVING]

Thanks for the reply to my post, For all of this great info from you guys or girls (If Any) will be retained and applied in such a way to acceive my goals. My plans are to get in the 12s with the car and yet retain a pretty stock look, hence the name DCVING = (decieving)! The ques. of my HP level would be answered ( there is no such thing) as too much. One question that I do have that mabey I can get help with is, Does the stock turbo 13g use the same oil and coolant to and from lines. This Sat I did some mods to the car, air can was hacked, bcs restrictor removed, ACCEL 300 thundersport wires installed, also ngk-R plugs (one step colder) a new fuel filter (the car still had the original fuel filter and air filter) Car responded well to these mods. hey one other Question when driving the car it seems to get very sluggy when i slow down and then start to accel. again I think the transmission is not down shifting to a lower gear easily under part throttle, If i shift my self it seems fine,so is there and kick down adjustment I can make to help this. THANKS Jon

 

[Kandy_GSX]

If there is some kind of adjustment, I have never heard of it. If it definately feels like its in the tranny, PM transdude. He would know more than I would. I think the turbo lines are the same, but I am more of a 2g guy so...... One more thing, if you are looking to buy some parts, I have a 90 GSX 5 speed I am looking to part out. It is pretty much complete. PM me if you are interested in anything. I can cut ya a good deal on some of the stuff.

 

[doug]

Originally posted by DCVING
so is there and kick down adjustment I can make to help this.

There is a thing on the tranny called the kickdown servo, but I wouldn't know if that's the problem or not. I would definitely do an ATF and filter change as soon as you can though, unless you know how long ago the last one was done. Use a good synthetic ATF-- it stands up to heat better, and heat is the tranny's number one enemy. If you use a Dexron/Mercon type fluid, add a bottle of LubeGard Black to correct the coefficient of friction to align with the ATF+3 (I think) standard for the Mitsu A/T. You can get LubeGard at NAPA. Good ATFs include Mobil1, Amsoil, and Royal Purple. A lot of guys like B&M TrickShift, but Transdude recommends against it because it apparently causes seals to swell or something like that. Mitsubishi Red Diamond is, of course, also good, but I don't think it comes in a synthetic.

 

[TURFNNSURF]

The Coolant return line and the return line Banjo bolt are different on the 13g. The other lines are the same. The part numbers you will need are:
Coolant return line 1G 14b turbo = MD117764
Banjo bolt 1G coolant return line 1G 14b turbo = MF650114

 

[Kandy_GSX]

Hey, one more thing. You will need a fuel pump that flows better. You can go with the Walbro 190lph, but I would suggest the 255lph. You will probably have to get a adjustable fuel pressure regulator. I would also buy 660cc injectors, incase you decide to upgrade later. I wish I would have went with the 255lph and 660cc injectors. I also left out a boost gauge and a boost controller.

 

[DCVING]

Wow I would think that 660cc injectore would be overkill right now, would be pretty hard to tune for streetability. I was planning on going w/ 450 or 550 and a super AFC, aroung 17psi of boost.

 

[Kandy_GSX]

It isnt as much overkill as you would think. You COULD do it with 550 injectors, but if you plan to upgrade your turbo in the future, you wont have to upgrade the fuel system. Also, 660 injectors are very streetable as long as they are tuned with the AFC. The price isnt that much different either. 440cc injectors are to small for the Evo 16g. Atleast go with the 550's. If you are 100 percent sure you dont have any future plans on upgrading the turbo from the Evo, then 550's will be fine. But, I sure wish I would have went with 660's. I will sure sale ya my RC 550's. They probably dont have a thousand miles on them. Still have the reciepts from Slowboy Racing.

 

[doug]

Note that you'll have to do the injectors and AFC at the same time, however. You can't run the stock fuel maps (especially with a 1G auto ECU) without some sort of fuel management.

 

[DCVING]

I do plan on using a 5sdp ecu in the car seing it is already calibrated for 450cc injector. I think it would be much easier to tune on this calibration for the 450c's than to tune w/ the factory euc calibrated for the 390's

 

[DCVING]

I just bought my turbo, BIG 16g, 2g exhaust manifold, ported o2 housing
gaskets and lines and all wahers and also 550cc injectors. All I need now is a s-afc, does anyone have one for sale I have 160 buck left in my budget to spend? Thanks for all the help with my questions!

 

[VRMAN]

DCVing,

Please email me [email protected] I would like to purchase your 13G turbo if I may. Not a high demand for them but I need one.


Also, if you are on a budget, try www.dsmtrader.com for SAFCs you can usually find some for $190-230 for the previous generation or if you are really on budget you can buy the 1st gen SAFC for like $120. It works just fine too.

 

[VRMAN]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102652

There you go, SAFC for $130, you can probably talk him down another $10 too.

 

[DCVING]

This question is probably for the tuning department, But here goes anyway,

When driving my car 93 Talon TSI AWD (auto)!! If I take off from a stop somethimes the car really seems to drag ass, other times it picks up pretty well, seems like I have to get into boost before the car really moves, I know this turbo is tiny and probably spools really quick but I think something is up, mabey tranny fluid is not correct and the pressure to the clutches is not high enough, Also I notice that when cruising at highway speeds my autometer boost gauge reads almost no vacume, it seems like something is holding the car back making me keep my foot in it more than normal ( I Think) I used to have a Shelby dodge and at about 70mph I would be under 10-14 in of vacume. Does anyone have this same problem or mabey know what it is I would really appreciate it.

 

[-GSX-Falcon]

Im not sure about your lack of power problem. But at about 70mph i read ~0 vac too. I think it has more to do with the RPM then the speed. The 13g kicks in a little after 3k, which is about what you cruise at. I take it as my turbo is about to spool.