AUTO vs. MANUAL

[KiD_DSM115]

yeah, I know this has been done,(searched no real answer) this is not in HangOut section becuase I want to know the answer. [ if you flame, then flame, but please answer the question while flamin ]


I'm not hating on A/T trans. but, one of my friend's has a auto. He said he would not get a stick shift because no matter what, Auto > Manual...street,track,,etc. His reasons being the following;

1)auto can build boost manual can't
2)auto can hold boost during shifts, manual can't
3)you can't miss a shift with an auto with manual you can
4)with a torque converter and a shift kit, the auto will out shift a manual everytime


my question is, so if this is all true, what is it about the Manual Trans that make them good?...in the end...assuming both types of the DSM's were stock or had the same mods, except one is auto and the other stick, AUTO/Stick ?...... x > x? Im not talkin fwd vs awd either...im talkin auto fwd vs manual fwd..|..manual awd vs auto awd...

He says there are threads already, where is one that Auto is > than stick.

 

[herostar]

manual does not rob as much power

manual is more fun to drive

manual is better for a road course/drifting/spirited driving because you can choose exactly where in the powerband you want to be

manual gets better gas milage


just to name a few...

 

[KiD_DSM115]

...wait a minute......you didnt answer the question....vs. in terms of racing heads up...street racing or track,,,, auto or manual....? assumin both are same modded or stock and of course same drivetrain.

 

[herostar]

In a race between two identical stock fwd turbo dsm's, the manual transmission car would win


Does your friend even know how to drive stick?

 

[xBOOSTx]

depending on if the driver of the stick knew how to shift good. Also, if it had been two AWD DSM's the auto could build boost off the line and have a better launch off the line with an end result of the auto>manual

 

[GirLyVR4]

1)auto can build boost manual can't
2)auto can hold boost during shifts, manual can't
3)you can't miss a shift with an auto with manual you can
4)with a torque converter and a shift kit, the auto will out shift a manual everytime

1) umm... if you have a turbo, whether it's manual or auto... it's the rpm's that "build" boost, not the kind of transmission the car has...

2) how fast can you shift? but yes, an auto will hold boost (better than a manual) during shifts.

3) you may not mis-shift in an auto, but you have MUCH more control over the car with a manual.

4) i dunno about torque converters

my opinion, auto is great for *high* HP drag cars, and rush hour traffic... that is the only time an auto has the advantage

in a race, stock for stock, the manual car will win (given the driver knows what he/she is doing) however, HIGH hp/highly modded cars, if the two cars have equal hp numbers/modifications, the auto will win.

 

[xBOOSTx]

i think he means auto's can build boost off the line

 

[David15151]

I guess he has never heard of a stutterbox...

 

[Corbic]

... auto v manual threads are always horrible and miss informing.

I'll do my best, because I'm sure the typical troll is on the way with "auto sux! only lazies use Auto!"

I live out in the mid west. Around here I see NO "professionally" done import tuners like you find in the magazines. Normally just idiot kids with crappy body kits, nitrous and crappy mufflers. However I have seen some nice "musical" cars. Please not I'm not talking about JUST about 1967 340hp Pontiac GTOs, but also anything running a large forward engine, RWD. Guys I have talked to own everything from 500hp F-bodies and Fox-bodies, right up to an 800hp Blue Supra and a 670hp 97 Camaro.

Many of these hardcore drag-racers swear by their autos. Yes, Manuel in a 4-banger is the way to go, even more so on an auto-x course. However if you are putting huge amounts of torque and power though a transmission (over 300hp) automatic is a must. I don't know exactly why, but that seems to be the trend. the Camaro owner installed an aftermarket 5spd auto, while I'm also possitive the Supra has a 6spd manual.

Here are my "facts"

Manual is easy to learn (it doesnt require "skill")
Manual is not constant (based on driver not a computer)
Manual is not as reliable (thanks to the driver)
Manual gets somewhat better gas mileage
Manual is more "fun" for some
Manual is more "sporty"
Manual is a PITA
Manual is god-awful when stoping on hills
Manual is normaly found on either "cheap" cars or "sports" cars

Automatic is more reliable then manual (you need to try to break it)
Automatic is constant
Automatic handels higher hp/tourqe curves better
Automatic sucks up some of your power
Automatic doesnt get as good as gas mileage
Automatic isnt "sporty"
Automatic is great in trafic
Automatic is great for crusing
Automatic is great if anyone else will ever drive your car
Automatic allows you to do other things, eat, drink, talk, drive
Automatic is user friendly



Also, please remember almost all racing leagues now use Automatic transmission. Well not exactly, but computer controlled shifting, or your manual-matics, or auto-manuals. Even higher end sports cars are shifting to these like BMW SMG and SMG II, along with Audi's DSG. These transmission have no "clutch" and shift in something like .003 of a second, far faster than a human could ever do, and far more accurate. You can't screw one up. If I had the choice, this is what I would get, seeing you can also let the car shift for you when shifting would be an inconvenious .

 

[GirLyVR4]

Many of these hardcore drag-racers swear by their autos. Yes, Manuel in a 4-banger is the way to go, even more so on an auto-x course. However if you are putting huge amounts of torque and power though a transmission (over 300hp) automatic is a must.

.

yes, for hard-core drag racers, auto is the way to go. but since when is 300hp a huge amount of power (and torque)? are you talking about strictly dsm's here? because my car is putting out more than 300hp/torque and auto is certainly not a must...

 

[Corbic]

Just what I'm told in general.

"When you start pushing over 300hp/tourqe, time to start loooking at automatic"

I'm also told handeling starts to drop to crap in a FWD car when it goes over 300hp, and really ideal power is around 240-260 hp in a FWD, after that just start making the car lighter. Just what I'm told, take it with a grain of salt.

 

[GirLyVR4]

Just what I'm told in general.

"When you start pushing over 300hp/tourqe, time to start loooking at automatic"

I'm also told handeling starts to drop to crap in a FWD car when it goes over 300hp, and really ideal power is around 240-260 hp in a FWD, after that just start making the car lighter. Just what I'm told, take it with a grain of salt.

well, i'm AWD so handling is not a real problem the higher the hp gets.

as for automatic being recommended for anything over 300hp/tq, personally, i think it's BS. stock my car comes with 320hp and manual... auto wasn't an option. i only know of one vr-4 that is auto (custom job, insane car) and there are plenty of high HP vr-4s running around, with no problems with the manual tranny.

i would think auto would be recommended for the insanely high HP cars (ie, 800-900hp + cars) or for the serious drag race car because of the points listed in the above posts (holds boost, shifts faster, no chance of mis-shifting, etc). other than that, auto will not be that much of an improvement for the majority of people who track/drag/race their cars, unless they are a really horrible driver.

 

[skybound74]

i tend tyo agree with what has been said about most of these things but the one comment about automatics being harder to break. i have blown my auto in every car i have owned. that being said though there is the option of getting a trans control unit to diretly program when to upshift and down shift your auto trans. so the being able to "time your shifts" comment is irrelevent in a way. in a way only cause these tcu systems can be sorta pricy from what i have seen.

 

[Corbic]

If you have blown up every auto you own, I smell user error. Just like when I hear kids whinning about the SRT-4 having a weak clutch. Ever tried a 3spd Neon DC auto? or 4spd Ford? Invensible I tell you.

 

[sonicnofadz]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the manual trannys alot lighter than the automatic transmissions? Not quite sure on that...

 

[tom1995tsi]

Both Have there advantages and disadvantages, and both can be fast. Im just goining to show you guys something. With an IPT restalled torque converter you can drop you 1/4 ET down by .5 to 1 sec. heres the link http://www.importperformancetrans.com/mitsubishiauto.shtml#main
Go down to torque converters and click on IPT Custom High-Stall Torque Converter For Mitsubishi / DSM. All years and models. Just because YOU have a manuel and its "sporty" doesnt mean an auto can be just as fast or faster.

 

[Corbic]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the manual trannys alot lighter than the automatic transmissions? Not quite sure on that...

A lot? Not sure. But I do know that those DSG and SMG transmissions out weigh both by a considerble margin. Same goes for many professional race transmissions. However, they shift faster, and are most likely more rugged.

 

[Eagle_Summit]

I guess he has never heard of a stutterbox...

i think i was the only one who saw you put this. I dont think he has either.

 

[NinjaTech]

Ill admit, I dont actualy own a DSM. Im on this site for a friend who has a Talon TSI, im kinda his car guy and do work for him. Im a domestic guy myself, 93 LT1 overbored camaro. Just so you dont start flamming me for it, im not trying to 'ricer bash' or anything, im very unbiased about cars, i just care about speed. Weather its a 1300HP LT1 or a DSM. On one of the LT1 boards that im on, there is a guy running a 388 (6.3L) camaro running low 10's N/A, lo 9's with a little 175 shot of nitrous, he is running that thru a race prepped T-56 six speed and a 12bolt rear. So, very high HP numbers can be run thru a manual and get good results.

One other main big thing with automatics is they are much more consistant than a manual, they are especialy good if you are bracket racing where consistency counts. Most of the usual power loss with an automatic can be reduced or almost eliminated if you have a good lockup converter on it also.

Pat

 

[WSU99GSX]

This topic has been posted to death all over this forum, but what it comes down to two little things called...Preference..and Availability...some prefer Auto over Manual, and others like myself found his dream car and the fact that it being an Auto did not matter, that would be the availability part.

 

[transdude]

I can probably speak volumes on this subject, however, I won't.

As was said before, it is sometimes a matter of preference. I happen to have an 8 second street car with an auto and it's a 65 Chevy II.

For you guys who haven't seen this, you may want to take a look at what can and is being done with DSM autos.
http://www.ddsm.org/vrcracing/

-John

 

[Defiant]

Automatics go a lot longer between clutch changes.

 

[KiD_DSM115]

thanks for all comments, I conclude that in the end, it depends on the preference of the driver i guess... well thanks

 

[pr0]

manual is good if you are a good shifter. unlike my friend who thinks im a ####y with my auto, he can't shift worth jack in his integra so I beat him all the time. i can drive manual very well, but always shifting I don't see as fun as some do, that's why I got an auto, but its mostly personal preference.

the auto is great, the only downfall is that it has 4 gears as opposed to a manual which has 5.

 

[Just Nasty]

IMO an Auto with a TQ, shift kit, and end clutches > stock Manual

Those 3 things will more than make up for the extra drivetrain loss an auto has.

true stock for stock manual > auto

"1)auto can build boost manual can't
2)auto can hold boost during shifts, manual can't
3)you can't miss a shift with an auto with manual you can
4)with a torque converter and a shift kit, the auto will out shift a manual everytime"

these four things are true.