General Attention High Compression E85 Users-Ignition timing questions

[donniekak]

Your plugs are telling you that you are a good ways off from the timing that setup wants. They are also telling you that your fuel octane isn't high enough to get there.

You can try playing with cam timing as well. Some cams get knock happy depending on the overlap.

 

[donniekak]

I'm well aware of what the setup you referenced above can do as I trapped 130.75 in a full weight street car on a similar setup. I went 10.5 per the builders recommendation.

If I had a good setup like that and wanted to go faster, I'd bolt on a bigger turbo and go 10-20mph faster for $1500-$2500.

 

[Kapok6]

Basically Steven elaborated for me.

Don't know what to tell you. What's your alc percentage now?

I don't know how ww does it, but if it were me I'd set it keep it from retsrding the timing with knock and see how.it does on a pull.

Do you have your catch can recirc back into the intake? Is your fmic full of oil?

Not sure what ACL is, but IDC up top is upper 70's to 81%

Catch can is recirculated. Pretty much identical to paul volks write up on here with a sealed calan catch can.

Wouldn't having it not pull timing make my HG or something else go BOOM?

I haven't pulled the IC in the last 1000mi or so but prior to that I had flushed it well with gasoline.

Your plugs are telling you that you are a good ways off from the timing that setup wants. They are also telling you that your fuel octane isn't high enough to get there.

You can try playing with cam timing as well. Some cams get knock happy depending on the overlap.

I did have them installed straight up before this discussion. I went +3* Exh/-3* In and in regards to knock, doesn't seem to have made much of a difference. Also seems to "hit" later but good golley when it does it, it seems to hit much harder up top than before.

If I had a good setup like that and wanted to go faster, I'd bolt on a bigger turbo and go 10-20mph faster for $1500-$2500.

Is the reasoning behind this bigger turbo, less boost, but flows more air? I would like to go t/s hx52 or S364.5 or S366. I really wanted to to see what I could do with this turbo on this setup as it was spectacular on my last one, but could this turbo be contributing to the knock issue on this setup?

 

[donniekak]

Bigger turbo = more boost and more air.

I ran a red at 28-32psi, I went to a dsm82 and ran it at 42psi. The difference was amazing.

A restrictive hot side will be especially knock happy with a high compression setup.

 

[Kapok6]

Bigger turbo = more boost and more air.

I ran a red at 28-32psi, I went to a dsm82 and ran it at 42psi. The difference was amazing.

A restrictive hot side will be especially knock happy with a high compression setup.

Fk...I never thought of that. One thing I am noticing with this setup is boost falling off up top. It tapers to the right. On old setup, it would hold pretty solid. Is that indicitive of a restricted hot side?

 

[donniekak]

Only way to tell for sure is to get some emap readings.

 

[Kapok6]

What's "emap reading?"

 

[bastarddsm]

sorry, ALC is alcohol percentage. I've been on my phone posting.

EMAP is exhaust pressure Get a 100psi sensor off ebay for $15, plumb it into your exhaust manifold, wire it into your EGRT sensor, and beg Curtis to program WW to display exhaust pressure.

I would suggest venting your pvc. Oil vapor has an exptremely low octane rating, so if your sucking it in the intake that could be causing an issue. Keep in mind that oil vapor doesn't mean liquid oil. I mean just what evaporates off the oil in the pan from heat - the oil smell.

 

[Kapok6]

sorry, ALC is alcohol percentage. I've been on my phone posting.

EMAP is exhaust pressure Get a 100psi sensor off ebay for $15, plumb it into your exhaust manifold, wire it into your EGRT sensor, and beg Curtis to program WW to display exhaust pressure.

I would suggest venting your pvc. Oil vapor has an exptremely low octane rating, so if your sucking it in the intake that could be causing an issue. Keep in mind that oil vapor doesn't mean liquid oil. I mean just what evaporates off the oil in the pan from heat - the oil smell.

Yeah, I remember reading something kiggly wrote a while back about oil bringing down octane ratings and his IC having been full of oil.

Will venting a catch can cause issues? I drive this thing like 100mi every weekend when its nice. My understanding is that a recirculated closed-can system pulls vacuum in the crank case allowing rings to get a good seal. Also, on my old setup with the ross pistons, I had blowby and would blow the dipstick out and spray oil everywhere and it developed other leaks. Then I installed this system and all leaks went away, dipstick stayed put, and the car performed extremely well for quite some time until the wrist pin on #4 decided it couldn't take any more. As such, I had figured a recirculated system was "the way to go" unless on a dedicated drag car.

 

[donniekak]

I run an open vent system on a 40psi setup that I drive 10,000-15,000 miles a year.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I'll pick some up tomorrow, dump it in, let it rip and get some logs this weekend hopefully.

Dont use denatured alcohol.... Well you can i guess but thats for like camping stoves. I ise it to clean my material before welding, I'd try toluene before that, toluene is actually already in gas as is and has a higher octane. You can get a big 5 gal from sherwin Williams

Do you know the octabe rating for the denatured?

 

[Kapok6]

Dont use denatured alcohol.... Well you can i guess but thats for like camping stoves. I ise it to clean my material before welding, I'd try toluene before that, toluene is in gas as is and has a higher octane. You can get a big 5 gal from sherwin williams

I already tried it. Helped a little, nothing significant imo though.

It's good for passing emissions tests though, ha ha.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I already tried it. Helped a little, nothing significant imo though.

It's good for passing emissions tests though, ha ha.

It just says clean burning doesnt mean anything about emissions TESTING. It probably won't hurt... I just dont think it would help. Some race gases are 25% toluene at around 110-115oct... I habnt had to octabe boost e85 ever before though.

 

[bastarddsm]

Denatured alchohol is mostly methanol and ethanol. It's fine. I suppose hitting it with toluene would work too.

 

[Kapok6]

It just says clean burning doesnt mean anything about emissions TESTING. It probably won't hurt... I just dont think it would help. Some race gases are 25% toluene at around 110-115oct... I habnt had to octabe boost e85 ever before though.

Denatured alcohol is how I passed emissions test here years ago when the car was still subject to the sniff test. Without a cat and all. lulz.

And no, I haven't heard of anybody needing octane booster on e85 before either, hence my frustration. 0deg at 5000-6500 is just retarded. I need to switch screen names with bastarddsm because my car is being a total bastard right now.

I have a can of Torco on the way too so i'll get my tank down between 1/4-1/2 and toss that in and see if that makes a diff too. But first I am going to further lower AFR's closer to 10, lower boost, and keep playing and see if I notice a dif.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

This is interesting me to... I was going to go to wiseco 10:1's.... I previously was on mahle 9:1..... Maybe i should stay 9:1, although my timng numbers even at 9:1 seemed a little low to most.... I'd be at like 5* at leak tq with e85 but on pump would be like -5 on 92oct

 

[Kapok6]

I'm staying 8.5 or lower from here on out.

 

[Stew Pidaso]

I'm staying 8.5 or lower from here on out.

Can I ask your reasoning on this? Is it just because you're having trouble dialing this in now?

 

[GST with PSI]

Denatured alcohol is how I passed emissions test here years ago when the car was still subject to the sniff test. Without a cat and all. lulz.

Do tell...

 

[Kapok6]

Can I ask your reasoning on this? Is it just because you're having trouble dialing this in now?

Because I doubt I am going to see a good "difficulty to benefit" return ratio. 8.3:1 E85 and I was hauling @ss V8's, tuned myself and not on here asking for help. 10.5:1 and its been nothing but a PITA so far, (WOT anyway, putting around town and cruising is nice), and looking like it's going to cost even more money.

Do tell...

What specifically would you like to know?

 

[GST with PSI]

What specifically would you like to know?

Exactly how you passed emissions using denatured alcohol.

 

[Kapok6]

1/4 tank of 93oct, 1qt of denatured alcohol, retard the CAS all the way, and put it on the sniffer. Though here, an AWD car only does a 2 speed idle test or whatever it's called, so it's not put on a load dyno. If it was a fwd car, I am not sure how it would have fared.

 

[GST with PSI]

Interesting.

And before this it wouldn't pass?

 

[Kapok6]

Nope. Failed. Failed a few times before combining these tricks. And I wasn't cutting up a perfectly good apex n1 exhaust to try to put a cat on it.

 

[boostdawd]

My dad and mechanic friends used to do this too to get older cars to pass.