At last, the better side of 12.0 in the 14b powered Talon!!!

[bullettdsm]

Wellll.....er......something positive, something positive .....um, it doesn't look as bad as my wiring, ?

Hehe, well, that will definitely give her more airflow. Results will tell all if it was worth it.

MB

 

[SBstar]

At this point it's definately function over form I hope it results in good things for ya. Another random thought for ya, have you thought about switching to E-85 at all?

 

[Phil1320]

Wellll.....er......something positive, something positive .....um, it doesn't look as bad as my wiring, ?

Hehe, well, that will definitely give her more airflow. Results will tell all if it was worth it.

MB

Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....................***t, ***k, mother*****r...........

Thanks for the vote Bullett!!!

on the plus side.....more AIRFLOW! I did make some small tweaks to it today and have some other things I may try to improve the look. It's done, it really needed to be done in my opinion. I'm not running a 3.5"-4" thick core so I think the surface area needs to be maximized. These are only my real thoughts and opinions on the subject. I say, "how could it not benefit?" Someone else may have different thoughts, but, all I've heard so far is how bad the EVO intercooler sucks.....I say.....cheap.....116.44 mph using less than 50%of it.....pretty killer in my book. Of course that's for my application. So, I know the car is not as pretty anymore, but, it's gonna get even worse when I put the other doors on most likely. So, the positives again were....? Oh yeah....airflow.....my new word of the week!

 

[Phil1320]

At this point it's definately function over form I hope it results in good things for ya. Another random thought for ya, have you thought about switching to E-85 at all?

It sure is, and that is more important to me at this time. If it doesn't work, I can always revert to another bumper cover. Also, I plan to run some road course track days in the future and I KNOW having that open will let more air pass to the radiator which will be much needed for 20-30 minute stints.

One last thing, as great as the pics of my car did come out, it is by no means a pristine automobile. It still has hail damage in the roof from the original owner, the paint shines like a mofo, but it's definitely scratched. It's my gemstone, but, not everyone's gemstone. It is definitely clean, obviously. But it's not like I cut the bumper cover on that 8844 original mile AWD A/T '92 Laser that was on ebay. It's a racer first, I can pick up all the pieces later!

I really don't know alot about E85. I've heard about it and I guess people rave about it, but I never read up on what the advantages are. Can you summarize it for me?

 

[SBstar]

Hmm, to put it as simplistically as possible.

Basic octane rating of 105, but has about the knock resistance of C16 due to its intake cooling tendencies. You have to run approximately 30% more E-85 then fuel to remain stoich. It's ability to cool the intake charge along with being a much cheaper form of "race gas" make it a such a great choice.

 

[1997_GSX]

Wow I can't even get below a 13.7 @ 101 MPH with a 54trim @ 14psi, stock engine / head, and fuel mods.

What am I doing wrong? My time slip is here... I know it is hard to read sorry.

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[Grimis]

wow, thats all i can say man, congrats!!!

14b is one little nasty turbo , makes me want to keep mine .

 

[Phil1320]

Hmm, to put it as simplistically as possible.

Basic octane rating of 105, but has about the knock resistance of C16 due to its intake cooling tendencies. You have to run approximately 30% more E-85 then fuel to remain stoich. It's ability to cool the intake charge along with being a much cheaper form of "race gas" make it a such a great choice.

Ahhh.....I see. Well, it's something to consider for sure. I wouldn't even know where to get it around here. I'll do some research. Thanks for the brief overview!

 

[Phil1320]

Wow I can't even get below a 13.7 @ 101 MPH with a 54trim @ 14psi, stock engine / head, and fuel mods.

What am I doing wrong? My time slip is here... I know it is hard to read sorry.

There could be many things involved here. I would say #1....more seat time based on your 60ft. times. #2 I'd say with that turbo, 14psi is not gonna get you going like you could. Without being there to see you run...this is all speculation. Good luck!

 

[Phil1320]

wow, thats all i can say man, congrats!!!

14b is one little nasty turbo , makes me want to keep mine .

Thanks alot, I appreciate it! Thanks for the interest in the thread as well. While 14b talk is not the most prominent in the DSM world, I still think it has it's unique place.

If you decide to bolt on another turbo, keep your 14b on the shelf, you never know!

 

[Gooberlog]

Phil,
While the new bumper mod might not look as clean as it did before, I would be surprised not to see an increase in performance. 14b guys need to do Everything they can to help that little hairdryer do it's best. At this point your car is a track star not a import scene cruiser so screw it. All or nothing, let us know if it nets any gains!

Btw: i was trying to buy a 2g maf from a guy on dsmtrader.com, and of corse now the site is down due to technical difficulties. I REALLY WANT TO RACE FRIDAY!!!!

 

[Phil1320]

Phil,
While the new bumper mod might not look as clean as it did before, I would be surprised not to see an increase in performance. 14b guys need to do Everything they can to help that little hairdryer do it's best. At this point your car is a track star not a import scene cruiser so screw it. All or nothing, let us know if it nets any gains!

Btw: i was trying to buy a 2g maf from a guy on dsmtrader.com, and of corse now the site is down due to technical difficulties. I REALLY WANT TO RACE FRIDAY!!!!

Well put Travis! And I agree. The j-pipe gets real hot as Bullett noticed at the track..pulling heat from the turbo itself he thinks, and my lower i/c pipe runs right up against the external dump tube, its tight in there. So, having the I/C in full view should help combat that heat and of course the heat thats already there.

I like that.....track star......good stuff

Of course I will report any potential gains for sure......although there may be a few other things going on with the car before next time out depending on when that is. Mainly weight reduction, if you can believe that.

I may run my 3"--turbo to 6" inch back dump exhaust. Til now, I've run full turboback. That's about 30lbs. in weight reduction right there. About 80lbs. more from the lighter doors......etc. Car might weigh in well under 2300lbs. So...work to do.....

Hopefully you can find a 2G MAF for Friday......there's gotta be one somewhere down there in DSMland.......

 

[Pirrofab]

It depends on your taste about the bumper. It may not look pretty but it has kind of a "mean factor" to it. I know cruising down the street if I saw it I would be snapping my neck to catch a look and be asking what was done to it. When you go to the extreme of cutting bumpers like that there is usually a damn good reason. As far as more weight reduction. I know I mentioned removing the dash before but do you still run a hvac box? Looking at the pic of your front bumper and headlight... Im in love with the headlight. such a sweet idea. I think I'll always have a 14b on the shelf, good for break in periods on new motors and good for a back up.

as for 1997_gsx
There are many variables to take into effect of your 1/4 mile results. from weather, to driver technique to overall condition of the vehicle. as long as the supporting mods are there for it definatley turn up the pressure on the turbo and let it do its job.
ie: a gt42 might flow alot of air but it won't do anygood if your only running 8psi. Compressor charts/ pressure ratios should be taken into consideration for optimum operation.

 

[Phil1320]

It depends on your taste about the bumper. It may not look pretty but it has kind of a "mean factor" to it. I know cruising down the street if I saw it I would be snapping my neck to catch a look and be asking what was done to it. When you go to the extreme of cutting bumpers like that there is usually a damn good reason. As far as more weight reduction. I know I mentioned removing the dash before but do you still run a hvac box? Looking at the pic of your front bumper and headlight... Im in love with the headlight. such a sweet idea. I think I'll always have a 14b on the shelf, good for break in periods on new motors and good for a back up.

That's cool....I like that.....mean factor is what I'll call it!

Good call....but, yes, all of the Hvac stuff is out including the very light plastic ductwork. I'm not sure about full dash removal yet. Because the engine is all original mileage, if I removed the dash I would have to custom mount the original cluster to keep clocking mileage. We'll see. I should have a set of the Polk front control arms coming soon. Those are said to lose about 10-11 lbs. per side. And, eventually I can go to a fuel cell and get rid of the original gas tank. I still have lexan rear 1/4 windows to go in at some point. All in due time.......

 

[SBstar]

This car has been long gone, but I still have the doors and the dash. But just to give you an idea of how light you can get the dash, I think it weighs something between 3-5 lbs. From the one picture where I can see a bit of yours it looks like yours is gutted pretty similarily, just not quite as extreme.

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If there is one thing I learned from that car it's that cutting out little framework metal isn't worth it. Tears up the structural integrity of the car, and the weight savings was minimal.

 

[Gooberlog]

Phil,
I just paypaled someone for a 2g maf so if it works and i have it by Friday i'll just need a radiator and i found one at the junk yard on a clean 1gb teal laser. It has some clean a$$ headlights i'd like to grab as well.
What did you use to paint the Evo FMIC on your car, i would like to black out my FMIC but now it's kinda bling.
As for weight mods, I think my biggest weight reduction i could do as of now is to get a new shift knob, i still have the banana shifter on there now.

 

[Pirrofab]

just remember with the fuel cell that the n.h.r.a will wamt a firewall in the hatch to close off the passenger compartment. IF you want to go through the trouble of it you can cut the stock tank in half and re weld it like Bill "Grumpy" Jenkin's did back in the 70's with his smallblock chevy powered vegas. Or maybe strap the fuel cell under the vehicle and use a trap door in the floor of the hatch to seal it off and keep a lower center of gravity.

 

[Phil1320]

This car has been long gone, but I still have the doors and the dash. But just to give you an idea of how light you can get the dash, I think it weighs something between 3-5 lbs. From the one picture where I can see a bit of yours it looks like yours is gutted pretty similarily, just not quite as extreme.



If there is one thing I learned from that car it's that cutting out little framework metal isn't worth it. Tears up the structural integrity of the car, and the weight savings was minimal.

Yeah, I could definitely get the dash lighter for sure, but that would be a big undertaking for me at this point as I have seven guages also. I will most likely do all I can first before going that route. My dash definitely weighs more than 5 lbs. Your car must have been pretty light though....ever weigh it?

I definitely won't cut any framework metal or drill holes with a saw. I don't like the look and for the 3lbs in metal I just wont eat or drink for 1 day before I hit the strip! Not to mention with roadracing in the cars' future. I won't risk chassis stiffness. I think the only sheetmetal that will be cut is for the FMIC and the spot behind the headlight to let more air hit the filter area. That's it.

I do have to take advantage of lighter doors though. I remember when I was looking to buy a talon back in 1996. A friend had a '93 ES that I looked over to get a feel for the car. I remember how solid the doors were when they closed, now I know why, they weigh a ton. Not like closing a door on a Civic, that's for sure.

 

[Phil1320]

Phil,
I just paypaled someone for a 2g maf so if it works and i have it by Friday i'll just need a radiator and i found one at the junk yard on a clean 1gb teal laser. It has some clean a$$ headlights i'd like to grab as well.
What did you use to paint the Evo FMIC on your car, i would like to black out my FMIC but now it's kinda bling.
As for weight mods, I think my biggest weight reduction i could do as of now is to get a new shift knob, i still have the banana shifter on there now.

Nice!!!

Honestly, I painted the I/C with satin black Rustoleum or Krylon, as light a coat as I could. I caught alot of flak from people about painting the I/C black. I was ruining the efficiency and blah, blah, blah. There's a place called Swaintech Coatings online. See what they say about black. The joke is on all the clowns that talked like they actually knew something.

A shift knob huh? Mine is heavy....the Greddy weighted knob out of my EVO. It helps incredibly during shifts. Gotta get rid of the banana, you won't be able to run better than 12.42 with that knob

 

[Phil1320]

just remember with the fuel cell that the n.h.r.a will wamt a firewall in the hatch to close off the passenger compartment. IF you want to go through the trouble of it you can cut the stock tank in half and re weld it like Bill "Grumpy" Jenkin's did back in the 70's with his smallblock chevy powered vegas. Or maybe strap the fuel cell under the vehicle and use a trap door in the floor of the hatch to seal it off and keep a lower center of gravity.

Thats an idea.....I would most likely mount it below like you've stated with a trap door for filling. Again, a far stretch from where I really want to go with the project. As a matter of fact, I don't know how far I will take it. It's all up in the air. I plan to run 3 more times this season and see what that nets me. If the car goes sub 11.50 then the rollbar becomes the next mod......but, with future roadracing in mind, I don't think the standard rollbar will morph into what I would run for a roadracing roll cage. I would want lighter chromoly for the drag strip and mild steel most likely for roadracing. So, when the time comes, I will be at a crossroads. Keep it a drag car---that's what I get most from people, "That's what it's always been Phil." And true for the most part. It went to the dragstrip the first month I had it, and the next month did a roadcourse track day with it when it was bone stock. Since then, only drag racing. So, before I go to the extremes of fuel cell and things like that, I need to decide the probable future of the car. I think I'd opt for carbon fiber doors and lexan windshield before any of that. Who knows? My "advisors"(Bullett)think the studderbox and NLTS should be the next engine related mods. Their feeling is that this will give me the most ET gain without changing anything else at all.

 

[Pirrofab]

Alot of people have mixed results with NLTS but i think its ultimatley because the feel you get for it. I'm assuming it holds tps at a given percentage but I'm kind of cloudy how it works. I'm assuming if it holds rpm at given point and you don't shift when your supposed to then it could make for a bad time going down the 1/4 mile. as far as the studderbox. From being in my friends 1g with dsmlink using the launch limiter (not antilag) its very crisp and dead consistent compared to just feathering the gas or trying to hold it steady. Your hand-eye coordination gets relieved by half because instead of gas and clutch and the christmas tree its just your clutch and the tree your right foot is already up against the floor. You will most certainly see a happy decrease in 60ft and overall et and mph.

DO IT TO IT!!!! the lil 14b that could... the stock motor that could .

 

[SBstar]

To be honest Phil, I wouldn't take it down the "full drag" road if I were you. With what you've already accomplished, and what you can accomplish still, there isn't a need for it. You're going to enjoy being able to take it to the drag strip crank off a mid 11, then hop over to the road course with minimal changes and go through some twisties.

I never weighed the lightweight talon, lets just say it was light. I was going to take it to the track before I parted it, but things just didn't work out as I ended up with a broken brake line and just said screw it. What I do know is I've ridden in several well tuned 16g cars and my lil 14b car felt a whole lot faster haha. But I haven't had the ol butt dyno calibrated in a while.

 

[Phil1320]

BleedingSilver-I would most likely just do the studderbox, no NLTS. People I've talked to think the 60ft. would definitely improve. So, I just gotta figure out who will do the chip for me and then wire it up.....which I'll have to find out how to do. I'm sure it's pretty simple.

So, piece by piece.......I'll start chippin away at 11.75

SBstar--I don't think I will, at least not now. I may buy another 1G to make a full road racer out of....only maybe though. With the economy the way it is and other things going on, I've downsized considerably. We just traded our '05 Legacy GT and 08' Forester XT Sport in for one normally aspirated '09 Impreza. So, that's two AWD turbo cars gone, the Forester was my daily and track day car...full coilovers etc. I have a Chevy Colorado pick up for my summer daily...RWD, and a beater '01 Impreza. I had two EVO's, an '04 RS and an '05 GSR, along with a Supercharged Focus, and an '03 Vette ZO6 before that with a couple Laser RS FWD in the mix. My truck has mods....its the 5 banger and ran 15.2@88 in the 1/4. My problem is I don't leave anything stock. Well, that trend just ended. Oh, and I have a Kawi ZX12R when I'm in the mood. Just too many toys was the problem. Went from 3 bikes down to one. The point is that now I can concentrate more on the talon......you could say it has taken a back seat to some of the above mentioned vehicles over the last several years. But, yes, I do like to do track days.....fun stuff. Last time I was at the dragstrip, I drove a total of 8 miles, I was racing for 1.5 of those miles. The last time at the roadcourse, I did 86 miles and was hauling ass for all of them.

 

[pneumo]

BleedingSilver-I would most likely just do the studderbox, no NLTS. People I've talked to think the 60ft. would definitely improve. So, I just gotta figure out who will do the chip for me and then wire it up.....which I'll have to find out how to do. I'm sure it's pretty simple.

So, piece by piece.......I'll start chippin away at 11.75

So you're looking for someone to burn a chip?
Hmmm, I wonder who has experience tuning chips that get the most out of a 14B?
Of course if you run one of my chips I might have to 'accidentally' set the rev limit to 3500 haha, nah I wouldn't do that.

 

[toofast82]

BleedingSilver-I would most likely just do the studderbox, no NLTS. People I've talked to think the 60ft.

Why are you hesitant to run the NLTS?
This and stutterbox may give you some ET improvement Although you seem to be doing just fine without them!