At last, the better side of 12.0 in the 14b powered Talon!!!

[Phil1320]

WOW this has been quite an active thread. Once again congrats on such an awesome accomplishment. As for 20 psi on the street with my fwd. I did it for the torque. ITS AMAZING. Most of my time is spent driving the car like its a non turbo so heat soak doesn't worry me. I'm building my AWD to be the insane 2.3/ holset35 daily driver now so the fwd/14b is just holding me over. I'm curious to know sinc it wasn't in your profile, Do you still have power steering rack in the car as well? that could shave a few pounds going to the manual rack from a 1.8. It may only be good for a few pounds more but the dash could get hacked apart. I'm not sure how crazy you want to get with it though. To keep the intake temp down maybe some water/meth injection in the future? Wow as I am writing this I am in complete disbeleif that your running this good on the stock headgasket and head studs. Some of us dsmers with daily drivers pop the head gaskets. Do you drive this car on the street at all or is it strictly track? I ask because I'm contemplating getting an Aluminum driveshaft for my 90 but the like I said earlier it is going to be my daily. I'm thinking of some ideas I could give for you to get this thing even faster n the 1/4 as far as weight reduction but I'm not sure if you would have me commited to a mental institution or not. Anyways, Awesome car and good luck with it.

Hey has anyone built a stroker and put a 14b on it to just drive it around for some break in mileage? Just curious on the insanely quick spool up that would be. although it would choke out pretty quickly.

Thanks again! I do still have a power rack as I plan to road race the car in the future, no pump and lines though. My dash is about as hacked as I would go before just plain pulling it out...which may happen. Yep, the engine is 100% stock with 80,600 original miles, crazy...

Any ideas you and anyone want to present that could potentially help my efforts would be great. I've never said I've done this without the help of others and never will. Like some racers say, "I just drive the car." Now, I do quite a bit more than that, but, I do feel like that sometimes.

Thank again for the props! This is what the forum is for, so whenever you want to throw some ideas out, I'm here.

 

[Phil1320]

I noticed the same thing back when i was running the 14b. It ran best at 20lbs, anything over 22 didnt net any gains. Its awsome to see you hit 11s! congrats man! And its cool to show everyone out there that you dont need the biggest baddest turbos to go fast.

Thanks alot, I appreciate the props! Even from 19 to 21 psi, the power gains are not huge, but 21 seems to be the sweet spot, at least on my 14B set-up. As you've seen on this forum, the set-ups can vary quite a bit and they all seem to get the job done. 14B is apparently pretty a versatile little beast.

That is true, you can have a fast car with a smaller turbo for sure....

 

[Phil1320]

Thanks for getting back to me on this that sounds very interesting I was just wondering what kind of goal I was shooting for. Another question for you What kind of sea level are you dealing with there? I'm dealing with 3500ft above sea level and as much as people think it doesn't effect a turbo car it does to a certain extent

I was at 603' above, and sure, it will hurt any car, the altitude, how much, I'm not sure. Cars lose hundreds of HP from the ground level to the top of Pikes' Peak, but thats 14,000+ ft. above........

You should still haul ass!

 

[Talon2139]

Wow man that is some nice numbers coming from a stock block, nice job man keep it up!

 

[Phil1320]

Wow man that is some nice numbers coming from a stock block, nice job man keep it up!

Thank you very much!

Is that a Kawasaki Green Talon in your avatar? I thought about that years back as I love that color. Had a '79 VW Scirocco in that color a long way back.....cool!

 

[Pirrofab]

Well the manual rack is lighter compared to the power one and will actually turn easier then the power rack since the power rack is designed to have the hydraulic fluid behind it. Although in autocross either way without some assist can get tiring on the arms. Do you still have the heat shield for the exhaust up by the driveshaft? Lighter rims? maybe a set of rota slipstreams? Synthetic fluids? It may be marginal gains in hp but every bit counts.
Since this car isn't daily driven I could even suggest removing the wiring harness to the taillights and making a simple circuit maybe only for one brake light bulb. Removing the automatic seatbelts and installing just a single harness. Do you still have power windows or did you convert to manual? You might even be able to just make some brackets with a lock in it to have the position either up, halfway, or down.

 

[Phil1320]

I want to see some videos of this beast!!!! Beautiful car its glad to see people running such good numbers with a basically stock setup.Love the headlight mod very practical and basic to do very good idea.congrats

I will definitely try to get some vids next time out. Thanks for the props! I have seen various ways to modifiy the headlight for air intake, I envisioned it that way and it came out pretty well. I am trying to keep the combination as basic as possible and extract the best ET as I can. It's possible that I may have to start adding more engine related mods in the near future, we'll see. Thanks again!

 

[Phil1320]

Well the manual rack is lighter compared to the power one and will actually turn easier then the power rack since the power rack is designed to have the hydraulic fluid behind it. Although in autocross either way without some assist can get tiring on the arms. Do you still have the heat shield for the exhaust up by the driveshaft? Lighter rims? maybe a set of rota slipstreams? Synthetic fluids? It may be marginal gains in hp but every bit counts.
Since this car isn't daily driven I could even suggest removing the wiring harness to the taillights and making a simple circuit maybe only for one brake light bulb. Removing the automatic seatbelts and installing just a single harness. Do you still have power windows or did you convert to manual? You might even be able to just make some brackets with a lock in it to have the position either up, halfway, or down.

I've heard the manual rack is lighter, but, as I've stated elsewhere, in the future I want to tear up the roadcourse as well, the manual ratio is terrible for any real response. But, for those last pounds...that is another option. ALL heatshields have been gone for at least the last 8 years. As far as rims, my M/T slicks on the Drag DR17 15's is a lighter combo than my drag radials on my 16" Racing Hart CP-035's, but the Racing Harts are the lightest 16" wheel you can get at 10.6 lbs. each. The 15's are heavier but the slicks are lighter than the drag radials, so, unless I by 15" Volk TE 37 I can't get any lighter really, the 15" Volks weigh in at 10.2 lbs. or so, just a bit lighter than the 16's. Auto seatbelt stuff has been gone for years. At the current time the original doors with power windows are in the car, just door panels removed. I have gutted doors with no mirrors ready for installation. The wiring to the rear of the vehicle is all still there as well. I also have lexan rear 1/4 windows that haven't made it on the car yet.

It's also time for a new harness and harness bar or cage. I am not in compliance and need to update before I can race again. I have to get the '09 NHRA rulebook and get to work.

Other weight reduction slated for the car:

-exhaust
-factory gas tank to fuel cell
-front lower control arms
-maybe dash removal
-lexan windshield
-carbon fiber doors/lexan windows
-swaybar removal

but, it all takes time and money........

 

[DJ23GSX]

I know our conversation you mentioned doing cams but how about a smim?? I'm not sure the 14b would flow enough air to make a big enough difference to justify the price of them though.

I don't dare mention dsmlink . I love the simple/old school safc route your going personally.


How do you like the turbosmart mbc?? I'm looking into a decent one myself and I think its down to either a hallman or the turbosmart you have.

 

[Phil1320]

I know our conversation you mentioned doing cams but how about a smim?? I'm not sure the 14b would flow enough air to make a big enough difference to justify the price of them though.

I don't dare mention dsmlink . I love the simple/old school safc route your going personally.


How do you like the turbosmart mbc?? I'm looking into a decent one myself and I think its down to either a hallman or the turbosmart you have.

DJ---I don't think I would do an SMIM without cams and most likely more. The guys that run the SMIM with 14b also have fully built engines with higher comp and things that could promote that type of powerband. Again, I plan to roadrace in the future and want all the throttle response and torque at the lowest possible rpm, which the stock manifold is probably best at. DSM link would for sure be able to optimize and DIAL my set up, but, I think I'd pursue other avenues first. I have been gathering a list together of potential directions to go and modifications to do, and the list is huge. There are so many things left to do with the 14b. I will try just about everything before I build an engine around the turbo. I'd love the advantage of higher comp, etc. But, why pull apart an engine that's performing so well as it is, ya know? I am however interested in doing the balance shaft removal kit....it is sitting on the shelf with the cams. I need to get the updated lifters and a valve spring kit of some sort to work with the cams I have.

I'm pretty inspired after last Saturday. That's the great thing about the DSMs for me, I can always come back to it and it still holds my interest.

The turbosmart has been perfect, better than either of the three generations of the Extreme XBC I used to run. You can't go wrong with the Hallman though.

 

[cfelix]

I can't wait for tranny to be done,I have a a 14b in my garage that I bought for 100.00.How much power will that give me? I can't wait to find out. If anyone knows please post. Any info would be great I have a 2g gst.

 

[Nate Crisman]

Phil, if you want something that might allow you to get some additional fine tuning and maybe squeek out a tick more power from the hard parts already on the car:

speed density DS-Map software. It' a cheap mod and gets you a fine tunable fuel and timing map system.

Congrats on the 11's. Bet you can't wait to go back and try to eekk out another tenth or so!

 

[Phil1320]

Phil, if you want something that might allow you to get some additional fine tuning and maybe squeek out a tick more power from the hard parts already on the car:

speed density DS-Map software. It' a cheap mod and gets you a fine tunable fuel and timing map system.

Congrats on the 11's. Bet you can't wait to go back and try to eekk out another tenth or so!

Where would I get that software Nate? I have not heard of it before.

Thanks!!! I am anxious to get back and try some different things with driving for sure and in the future add some mods to the combo. Don't know when I'll get back to the strip exactly yet. Glad to see you up here!

 

[S_rangeBrew]

Nice Job. It's all about the supporting mods.

 

[Phil1320]

Nice Job. It's all about the supporting mods.

Thanks! And, I agree.

 

[Pirrofab]

Another avenue to look out would be similar to what english racing just did with there 16g powered automatic car. Remove the intertcooler and run from the turbo j-pipe straight to the intake manifold ultilizing the meth injection. although they might be using e85 to further control detonation in that car. It did just drop into the 10s with a stock engine/auto trans with just a blue wire mod for line pressure. Removing the sway bar links would not only shave weight but might help with decreased 60fts as well due to the allowance for more weight transfer. Ever see a mid 80's chevy malibu run the 1/4 wit the sway bars connected one run and disconnected the next? HUGE gains in weight transfer. Not sure if that would help or hinder in an AWD, although in some instances it does help with cornering.

 

[Phil1320]

Remove the intertcooler and run from the turbo j-pipe straight to the intake manifold ultilizing the meth injection. Removing the sway bar links would not only shave weight but might help with decreased 60fts as well due to the allowance for more weight transfer.

I would consider that for a future mod possibly. Thats a far cry from where I am now though. There are so many basics like the balance shaft removal kit that I haven't even done to the car yet. Running meth is a different league than I'm in for sure. As far as the swaybars, I was going to remove the front even for road racing so that one comes out for sure, the rear would stay in for roadracing......but the rear Suspension Tech bar is HEAVY. Too bad its not hollow. I've had great luck with a very basic set-up and am trying to keep it that way as long as gains can be made. At some point, I'll have no choice but to make drastic changes to go quicker, but, now is definitely premature to go that drastic route.

Thanks for your help and ideas!

 

[black92_tsi_awd]

How much did the external wastegate help. My ported stock exhaust manifold is setup for one (came off a buddies race car) but didn't know if it was worth it on the 14b.

 

[Phil1320]

How much did the external wastegate help. My ported stock exhaust manifold is setup for one (came off a buddies race car) but didn't know if it was worth it on the 14b.

I think it is key in holding boost rock solid. Of course the turbo has to be in good working condition. Mine is O2 mounted which I like. I would do it over the stock internal gate for sure. go for it!

 

[toofast82]

I think it is key in holding boost rock solid. Of course the turbo has to be in good working condition. Mine is O2 mounted which I like. I would do it over the stock internal gate for sure. go for it!

Definitely agree! I was having boost drop with the internal on the 14b when setting it at 18psi and it would creep when at 15psi.
When I switched to external, it holds 20psi rock steady and it makes me

 

[laserspeeddemon]

Very Cool, make me think it's time to start working on my car again.

 

[Phil1320]

Definitely agree! I was having boost drop with the internal on the 14b when setting it at 18psi and it would creep when at 15psi.
When I switched to external, it holds 20psi rock steady and it makes me

 

[Phil1320]

Very Cool, make me think it's time to start working on my car again.

Thanks! Glad to motivate you!

 

[Talon2139]

Thank you very much!

Is that a Kawasaki Green Talon in your avatar? I thought about that years back as I love that color. Had a '79 VW Scirocco in that color a long way back.....cool!

it actually more like a lime green (worst paint job ever though) it was originally red, and someone got the f&f idea of painting that color, even though it failed miserably.

 

[Phil1320]

it actually more like a lime green (worst paint job ever though) it was originally red, and someone got the f&f idea of painting that color, even though it failed miserably.

Fair enough...