At last, the better side of 12.0 in the 14b powered Talon!!!

[Phil1320]

So you're looking for someone to burn a chip?
Hmmm, I wonder who has experience tuning chips that get the most out of a 14B?
Of course if you run one of my chips I might have to 'accidentally' set the rev limit to 3500 haha, nah I wouldn't do that.

Quite honestly Dave, you were the first person to come to mind...seriously. I really don't hang around any DSM people at all anymore. So, I wouldn't know where to start over here on the east coast. I really didn't know if you'd be willing to help. But, it would be great. I have zero experience with anything beyond my AFC2. I've made all the adjustments over the years and dynoed my car, but, I'm no tuner by any means. What I have is a '90 ECU - EPROM. The only things done were getting rid of fuel cut, and rev limit is at 8000, that's it. All other parameters should be as stock. The chip was done by a guy down in Maryland that I met through Extreme Motorsports. I got the ECU down there as well. He installed the chip and I just threw it in. First time car wouldn't start and I had to send it back to him. I think the board needed to be repaired initially and there was some problem....looked to me like solder was connecting a couple of lines on the board that it shouldn't have when I inspected it.

So, If you'd like to help my efforts, it would be awesome! And even if you set the rev limit at 3500, I think I can still hit 13.0@108! I've read your page on the FF site and have seen pics of parts of your set up. I have an idea of some things that have helped on your set-up. I'm slowly going to start doing some things. Although, as soon as you have time, I suppose I'd like to get the chip done. If there are any specifics you'd like to discuss outside the forum just PM me when you get the chance. I appreciate any help you want to give!!!

Last, do you anyone that knows anything about how to burn chips for a 14b car?

 

[Gooberlog]

I've been thinking about how much easier it would be with a stutterbox/2 step, but the NLTS would feel really weird and inside i'm super paranoid that if it didn't turn on you would be full throttle with the clutch in. Probably you would have raised or removed the rev limiter by then as well. I'll admit i'm scared.

 

[Phil1320]

Why are you hesitant to run the NLTS?
This and stutterbox may give you some ET improvement Although you seem to be doing just fine without them!

Not hesitant so much.....but, have never really heard much about the advantages, and I suppose it would have to be dialed to shift points and things like that. The studderbox is easy to understand as far as what it could do. And, yes, I've always been proud of the fact that I've been able to drive the car pretty well without any aids whatsoever. But, I can use any help at this point. I'm sure pneumo can coach on this subject as well.

 

[Phil1320]

I've been thinking about how much easier it would be with a stutterbox/2 step, but the NLTS would feel really weird and inside i'm super paranoid that if it didn't turn on you would be full throttle with the clutch in. Probably you would have raised or removed the rev limiter by then as well. I'll admit i'm scared.

Travis---Except for an ever so slight lift on the 1-2 shift, the gas pedal is to the floor until after I go through the traps. The NLTS apparently holds a given rpm between shifts by cutting ignition maybe and so the engine doesn't rev higher when hitting the next gear. I'm real sketchy on what I know about it. I remember some of the guys years back talking about it but didn't pay much attention at that time, I didn't even have an EPROM ecu or an AFC.

 

[SBstar]

That's about right phil, NLTS allows you to keep your foot in it between shifts, without the fear of bouncing off the rev limiter, it basically keeps the revs from climbing to a dangerous point while in between gears.

 

[Gooberlog]

Yeah i remember now that i would lift to second and again to third but i would keep it pinned going from third to fourth...back in the day with the white talon. The laser has only been down the track once so far, a rough shake down pass i won't mention any further.

 

[Phil1320]

That's about right phil, NLTS allows you to keep your foot in it between shifts, without the fear of bouncing off the rev limiter, it basically keeps the revs from climbing to a dangerous point while in between gears.

Yeah, that's what I figured....never bounced off the limiter yet between shifts, but I don't shift so high either.....maybe it will help either way.

 

[Phil1320]

Yeah i remember now that i would lift to second and again to third but i would keep it pinned going from third to fourth...back in the day with the white talon. The laser has only been down the track once so far, a rough shake down pass i won't mention any further.

That's how I used to run it when I was driving to the track....I only stayed full throttle on the 3-4 shift.......that's ok, hopefully you'll run this Friday......

 

[DJ23GSX]

Why are you hesitant to run the NLTS?
Although you seem to be doing just fine without them!

NLTS isn't recommended for stock trannies and correct me if I'm wrong Phil but I believe you told me your tranny is still stock.?

It also helps spool the turbo between shifts but as fast a 14b spools I'm not sure you'd even notice. I would assume the bigger the turbo the bigger the benefit in that aspect.

Ultimately your the only one who knows if your shifting needs improvement. You seem to be doing alright to me

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I love my new studderbox. It takes alot of guess work out of your right foot and you can really just concentrate on slipping that clutch out. I've only used mine 5 times but its helped me a lot.

 

[toofast82]

NLTS isn't recommended for stock trannies and correct me if I'm wrong Phil but I believe you told me your tranny is still stock.?

If he's already shifting it without letting off the gas, i don't think the nlts will be putting any more stress than what is already being done. It quite possibly could put less stess in Phil's situation.

 

[Phil1320]

DJ---tranny is not the original, but, yes, it is bone stock. Yeah, the shifting seems to be fine, well, I think I need some dialing in of when to shift out of first, I'm a bit early I'm sure, but the physical shifting is good. I think the gain on the launch it really what I'm looking for. So, the studderbox I definitely want to try. If I was competing it would be even more valuable. But, most times I just watch the tach and see the lights out of my peripheral vision. Unless theres some Camaro or Mustang that needs its ass kicked, then I'll watch the lights......and the studderbox would definitely be great at that point. I'll have to choose a launch rpm, where is yours set DJ? I'm thinking 6,000. I'll have to wait and see where pneumo has his set as well. I'm ready.

 

[DJ23GSX]

If he's already shifting it without letting off the gas, i don't think the nlts will be putting any more stress than what is already being done. It quite possibly could put less stess in Phil's situation.

If I'm understanding this correctly the NLTS spools the turbo between shifts so once that clutch comes up in the next gear your already in boost correct? I don't believe that happens without the NLTS option. I may be wrong but if I'm correct that would put more power/torque into the shifts and ultimately on the tranny.

 

[Phil1320]

If he's already shifting it without letting off the gas, i don't think the nlts will be putting any more stress than what is already being done. It quite possibly could put less stess in Phil's situation.

You're probably right. If the NLTS could be set properly it may actually help, at least on the 3-4 shift where you can really hear the engine rev up. The 1-2 & 2-3 are so fast that it may be negligable there.

 

[DJ23GSX]

DJ---tranny is not the original, but, yes, it is bone stock. Yeah, the shifting seems to be fine, well, I think I need some dialing in of when to shift out of first, I'm a bit early I'm sure, but the physical shifting is good. I think the gain on the launch it really what I'm looking for. So, the studderbox I definitely want to try. If I was competing it would be even more valuable. But, most times I just watch the tach and see the lights out of my peripheral vision. Unless theres some Camaro of Mustang that needs its ass kicked, then I'll watch the lights......and the studderbox would definitely be great at that point. I'll have to choose a launch rpm, where is yours set DJ? I'm thinking 6,000. I'll have to wait and see where pneumo has his set as well. I'm ready.

My studderbox is only set at 4,500. I'm still on the 3 bolt rear Mine is adjustable in 250 rpm increments up to 6500 i believe. I build roughly 8psi off the line at 4,500.

 

[Phil1320]

My studderbox is only set at 4,500. I'm still on the 3 bolt rear Mine is adjustable in 250 rpm increments up to 6500 i believe. I build roughly 8psi off the line at 4,500.

Wow....8 psi at 4500......that's pretty cool! With the slicks I'll have to be up at about 6000 I'm sure. I was launching as near to that as possible. Can't wait to try it out.

 

[FonZ454]

I've been using stutterbox and NLTS for a few years on a stock tranny now, Seems to help shifts actually.

Phil, are you launching with any boost? More boost on the line could help.

NLTS does help, but will be much more noticable on a big lazy turbo'd car. 14b's boost is almost instantly back after a shift, though it may help a bit, I don't know.

 

[Mr Peepers]

NLTS just allows the throttle plate to be open during shifting and maintain boost without exceeding x rpms, basically a 2nd stutterbox rpm. Hard on the tranny but only if you bang the clutch out, otherwise it will feel just like an N/A car as far as power delivery.

Edit: what Ryan said

 

[Phil1320]

I've been using stutterbox and NLTS for a few years on a stock tranny now, Seems to help shifts actually.

Phil, are you launching with any boost? More boost on the line could help.

NLTS does help, but will be much more noticable on a big lazy turbo'd car. 14b's boost is almost instantly back after a shift, though it may help a bit, I don't know.

Hey Fonz! I don't think there's any boost at all until I start to let the clutch out. I'm just dry revving at that point. So, another vote for the stutterbox I'm assuming!!!Where is your rpm set out of curiousity?

 

[Phil1320]

NLTS just allows the throttle plate to be open during shifting and maintain boost without exceeding x rpms, basically a 2nd stutterbox rpm. Hard on the tranny but only if you bang the clutch out, otherwise it will feel just like an N/A car as far as power delivery.

Edit: what Ryan said

Hmmm... harder on the tranny though huh? I would think it would be easier on the trans as it holds rpm lower.....less friction when the clutch re-engages because the rpm aren't as high? I'm missing something there. But, I get the general idea, but as Fonz says, the 14b recovers pretty quick between shifts as it is, but if the NLTS is worth .005 seconds in ET, I'd do it.

Thanks for the help on this everyone! For an old DSM'r of almost 13 years I feel like don't know too much anymore!!!

 

[SBstar]

NLTS doesn't help the turbo keep spooled in between shifts any better then good ol regular power shifting. It only helps by keeping the rpms from going beyond a certain point while the throttle is open and between gears. You're already no lift to shifting between 3 & 4 as you've said, so in essence, this is just going to help prolong the life of your motor and possibly trans.

As far as having boost at launch. The studderbox isn't going to do that for you by itself. You need to use something like a hand brake (also known as a staging brake) or use the emergency brake. This will let you start slipping the clutch out before you launch putting some load on the trans (and thus the engine) without letting the car start moving forward. That load will let the turbo build some boost on the line. This will net better 60 fts. but isn't going to be so friendly on your clutch.

Of course if you have an automatic you can build boost on the line as well.

 

[Phil1320]

As far as having boost at launch. The studderbox isn't going to do that for you by itself. You need to use something like a hand brake (also known as a staging brake) or use the emergency brake. This will let you start slipping the clutch out before you launch putting some load on the trans (and thus the engine) without letting the car start moving forward. That load will let the turbo build some boost on the line. This will net better 60 fts. but isn't going to be so friendly on your clutch.

Of course if you have an automatic you can build boost on the line as well.

I gotcha....I assumed. I hear you on the launch. I actually use my e-brake every launch, but, release it at the first yellow. I had some trouble my third time ever at the strip....back in 1997. I was rolling through the beams for some odd reason, maybe on the edge of clutch engagement...whatever....I started using the e-brake to hold the car and have ever since!

That's the other thing....I have always been pretty easy on the car compared to how I've seen some people launch and shift the 1-2. I have never, "drove it like I stole it" as some people like to say. Now that I don't drive it to the strip anymore I can definitely drive it harder and not worry that its my ride home. But, after more than a decade of driving to the track....it's hard to get that out of my head. That's why Bullett told me that for sure I shift to early too second gear...well before the 60' mark which is anothe reason my 60' times were never killer, I mean I used to average 1.71-1.72 or so, and as I've said elsewhere I only had maybe 6-7 60' times in the 1.6X with a best of 1.65. Now with the slicks I've been 1.57X 3 times with a best of 1.570...shifting to second before I break the 60' beam.....so I'm sure I can improve in the 60' area, but, that may not net much on the big end. The normal thought about how much I'll gain in ET based on how much quicker my 60' time could be is no longer working. I ran 1.89 to 12.0 a year and half ago, we figured throw on the slicks and say 1.60 .....so about 3 tenths in 60' time should maybe net .45 in 1/4 ET. NOPE. I improved better than .3 to the 60' with the 1.57 and it netted "only" .25 in actual ET at 11.75. So, we'll see. Everyone seems to think the Stutterbox will do the trick......only time will tell.

 

[DJ23GSX]

As far as having boost at launch. The studderbox isn't going to do that for you by itself. You need to use something like a hand brake (also known as a staging brake) or use the emergency brake. This will let you start slipping the clutch out before you launch putting some load on the trans (and thus the engine) without letting the car start moving forward. That load will let the turbo build some boost on the line. This will net better 60 fts. but isn't going to be so friendly on your clutch.

Of course if you have an automatic you can build boost on the line as well.

How so? My keydiver studderbox builds boost off the line with no use of the ebrake at all? His studderbox mess's with your timing allowing the turbo to spool while standing still. I guess he calls it poormans antilag.

 

[Phil1320]

Yeah, I would think it would have thought it would build boost without the e-brake too, that would be the benefit, right? Anyway, let's just get it in the car and try it out, no more speculation. pneumo is going to help me with all my chip needs which is pretty stand up if you ask me. It's better than that, it's kick ass. I'm sure I will credit him in the future for some of my success.

People always said to me: Why you keep F***** around with the stock turbo, just buy another turbo and bolt it on.......and it got in my head, at one time I had both big 16G and FP Green on the shelf......I sold both in favor of carrying out my aspirations with the stock turbo and engine. So, who up here thinks I made the "wrong" decision? Sure, as light as my car is with a Green......it would rip no doubt.....but that would be too easy. The 14b quest has netted much less money spending, no broken parts(knock on wood) and a great feeling of accomplishment. So, the journey continues.....and I'm having FUN with it, that's all that really matters to me.

 

[SBstar]

How so? My keydiver studderbox builds boost off the line with no use of the ebrake at all? His studderbox mess's with your timing allowing the turbo to spool while standing still. I guess he calls it poormans antilag.

Ahh ic, I guess I haven't dealt with one that did that. Every studderbox I've used so far didn't build boost off the line.

 

[DJ23GSX]

People always said to me: Why you keep F***** around with the stock turbo, just buy another turbo and bolt it on.......and it got in my head, at one time I had both big 16G and FP Green on the shelf......I sold both in favor of carrying out my aspirations with the stock turbo and engine. So, who up here thinks I made the "wrong" decision? Sure, as light as my car is with a Green......it would rip no doubt.....but that would be too easy. The 14b quest has netted much less money spending, no broken parts(knock on wood) and a great feeling of accomplishment. So, the journey continues.....and I'm having FUN with it, that's all that really matters to me.

First off what your doing with a 14b is un-freaken-believable (to me anyways). People go fast with big 16g's and fp greens all the time. How many other people can say they ran 11's on a 14b. Maybe a handful if that.? I say keep on pushing it.

Good Luck