Arp head bolts hitting valve springs?!?!?!?!

[b00stAdict]

ok so long story short i got my head rebuilt and bought new arp head studs. about a week later i finally got around to putting it together. studs fit good in the head, no resistance. put the head on, sealed good, so started putting washers on the studs in the head and here is where my problem lies. on a few of the studs. if looking at the head from the front (exhaust side, timing on right) the bottom left, the top right, and the two middle studs the washer will not go down because they hit the valve springs. i tried prying the springs over a little with a big flat head screw driver. but the spring did not budge a bit. any ideas? could the machine shop have put the wrongs springs back in or in the wrong spot? any chance the stock springs are a "beehive" spring? they don't look like "beehive" springs but i could be wrong... any suggestions would be appreciated! thanks!

pictures attatched.... the first one is what all my other ones look like and the other three are my problem ones.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

<br>

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

<br>

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

<br>

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

<br>

 

[DSMReviver]

Yeah, i also had this same problem(Normal).

1st.No worries, you just need to lift the head up, place your arp ring washers over the hole.

2nd.lower your head slowly till the studs goes through the head/ring washers.

These washers needs to be sitting on the inside on some of them because otherwise they will not go down with studs poking through the head.

 

[knochgoon24]

Pull the stud out, drop the washer down, put stud back in.

 

[b00stAdict]

Yeah, i also had this same problem(Normal).

1st.No worries, you just need to lift the head up, place your arp ring washers over the hole.

2nd.lower your head slowly till the studs goes through the head/ring washers.

These washers needs to be sitting on the inside on some of them because otherwise they will not go down with studs poking through the head.

thanks for the reply! i'll definitely try that when i get off work today but thats not my only problem i don't think the "nut" will fit all the way down either?? is it possible that the springs aren't centered?

 

[talonalex92]

I have always just knocked them down either with a screwdriver if im by myself, or if I have someone there that can help, ill lift the head and have them put the washers in it and then lower it down.

 

[Tyeler18]

thanks for the reply! i'll definitely try that when i get off work today but thats not my only problem i don't think the "nut" will fit all the way down either?? is it possible that the springs aren't centered?

The nut will fit. It's like this for every ARP headstud fastener on the 4g.

 

[BoostedBeater]

Best method is the same one used with the "one by one" method in my opinion... Remove the stud, place the washer and then screw in the stud, after that you'll be fine.

 

[daren_p]

This is a common issue, as has been said either pull the head off, place all the washers then drop the head back down or remove each stud, place the washer, then reinstall the stud.

 

[b00stAdict]

The nut will fit. It's like this for every ARP headstud fastener on the 4g.

once again thanks for the replys but last night when i tried just putting the nut on it hit the spring and wouldnt go any further i dont wanna tighten it down and scratch or damage the springs. im glad this is a common issue with arps but i got the washers figured out now its just the nuts on the few studs. any other suggestion for the nuts hitting?

 

[DSMReviver]

thanks for the reply! i'll definitely try that when i get off work today but thats not my only problem i don't think the "nut" will fit all the way down either?? is it possible that the springs aren't centered?

This is very common, all 4g63 heads are like this. your "nut" will not be an issue, if it is follow the same process i've suggested. And other methods works well also.

 

[b00stAdict]

thanks for the reply! i'll definitely try that when i get off work today but thats not my only problem i don't think the "nut" will fit all the way down either?? is it possible that the springs aren't centered?

ok let me refrase what i stated earlier "i dont think the nut will fit all the way down" -- the nut will NOT fit all the way down it hits the springs about half way down the stud

 

[curt-s]

I ran into this same issue. I just used a bit of leverage with a thin flathead screw driver and shimmied the bottom of the spring enough to drop the washer on; I did it to 3 or 4 that were interfering.

 

[90moneypit]

ok let me refrase what i stated earlier "i dont think the nut will fit all the way down" -- the nut will NOT fit all the way down it hits the springs about half way down the stud

Look at your valve springs and see if they appear centered in the machined area at the base to see if they've shifted.

Was the head off getting bent/broken valves replaced? I say this because there's a chance your valve guides were bent and causing the interference. If everything was fine before and you're just replacing the springs then you're over thinking things. The nut should fit and any spring movement will be sorted out when you fire it up.

 

[90moneypit]

Didn't like my response?
Just like every other response (like the Wisemen), I've been there, done that. The base fact is: If the head was good before, the ARP's will fit. I had to tweak my springs a little bit but not excessively. If you're that worried about the advice you're receiving, take the head to a machine shop to have it checked out.

 

[knochgoon24]

Time for another photo...

And don't bump your post because you didn't get the answer you wanted in 20 min.

 

[b00stAdict]

Look at your valve springs and see if they appear centered in the machined area at the base to see if they've shifted.

Was the head off getting bent/broken valves replaced? I say this because there's a chance your valve guides were bent and causing the interference. If everything was fine before and you're just replacing the springs then you're over thinking things. The nut should fit and any spring movement will be sorted out when you fire it up.

the reason the head was rebuilt is because there was burnt a valve in the 1st cylinder.everything beside that worked just fine. i had stock head bolts in before and never noticed the clearanc. the springs are the same didn't replace anything besides valves and seals. i just dont want to force the nut on it and have it rub when the motors started thats obviously not right there shouldnt be anything rubbing/touching the head bolts/studs/washers...

 

[90moneypit]

Well, there's going to be an increase in size, decrease in clearance because you're going from a bolt to a stud and nut. What I'm guessing happened is that the shop removed the valvetrain, did the work, then re-assembled it. You should be fine moving the valve spring over enough to fit the nut on there. Notice all the machined space around the valve spring? That is the acceptable area to have it seated. It's okay to move it a little bit so you can fit the nut and more importantly, the socket. Just twist the spring to get the clearance. If you can't get enough clearance that way, you'll need to take it back to the shop that did the work and ask them what they did. Switching to head studs is a very simple exchange of parts and you seem to be having more difficulty than you should and something MAY be wrong.

 

[b00stAdict]

Time for another photo...

And don't bump your post because you didn't get the answer you wanted in 20 min.

ok i apologize about the bump... but i will take more pictures when i get off around 5 mountain standard time.

and to the previous post its not that i didnt like the advice stated i just keep getting responses regarding the washers. i got that and understand completely on how to get the washers in and seated. its the nuts that im confused about i dont see why there isnt enough clearance for them tofit by the springs.. once again pics will be posted after work..

thanks for all replies

 

[MM's Talon]

i just trimmed my washer a lil on a side and it slid right down :]

 

[90moneypit]

i just trimmed my washer a lil on a side and it slid right down :]

That's a bad idea. That's a possible failure and metal contamination point now. It's always better to resolve the issue vs modifying things to 'make things easier'. That's like buying new wheels and spacers vs doing the research and getting them in the proper offset. You only do the former if there's no other option available because it's structurally weaker than doing it properly.

 

[b00stAdict]

Time for another photo...

And don't bump your post because you didn't get the answer you wanted in 20 min.

ok so here are the pictures of the bolts.....

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

<br>

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

<br>

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

<br>

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

<br>

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

<br>

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

let me know what you all think and thanks again for helping me out i know its "V-day" and all. i greatly appreciate it!!

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

This happens all the time. You either pry the spring out of the way with a large flat head screwdriver or you just continue to run the nut down the stud and trust me it'll move the spring by itself. A little bit of material will come off the nut so you have to keep a magnet held to the contact surface between the nut and spring while you tighten the nut. I've never seen it damage a spring and the material comes off in a nice little coil usually. I can't ever remember seeing a head with 12mm ARP hardware where I didn't have these issues with 3-4 springs. You just gotta make sure you don't slip and damage anything if you use the pry method and you have to make sure you catch any/all material that comes off the nut if you just tighten it.

 

[b00stAdict]

This happens all the time. You either pry the spring out of the way with a large flat head screwdriver or you just continue to run the nut down the stud and trust me it'll move the spring by itself. A little bit of material will come off the nut so you have to keep a magnet held to the contact surface between the nut and spring while you tighten the nut. I've never seen it damage a spring and the material comes off in a nice little coil usually. I can't ever remember seeing a head with 12mm ARP hardware where I didn't have these issues with 3-4 springs. You just gotta make sure you don't slip and damage anything if you use the pry method and you have to make sure you catch any/all material that comes off the nut if you just tighten it.

ok.. so if i do this what happens when the motor is running isn't the spring going to be rubbing against the nut the whole time and eventually wear down and snap/break?


anyone else agree with doing this?

 

[knochgoon24]

You're hitting the flange of the nut, not the main part. That flange will sit low enough that it won't rub.

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

It's the base of the nut that hits only as it passes by the spring. Once it's fully seated there is no contact so you don't have to worry about the scenario you described. Do one and you'll see what I'm talking about. I can go take my valve cover off and take you a picture if you don't believe me and you're worried about it.