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1G Aftermarket clutch and flywheel

Posted by 93TalonTSiAWD, Jan 26, 2021

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  1. 93TalonTSiAWD

    93TalonTSiAWD Probationary Member

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    Hello,
    I am new to DSM and just purchased a 93 Talon TSi AWD. Needs some work, and rear main seal is leaking, so while dealer replaces the seal, I might as well have them put in a better clutch. I plan to take it stage 1 upgrade 250-300HP and possibly stage 3 up to 400HP. What is the best clutch and flywheel to go with to be safe in case I go the route of stage 2 upgrade, and where can I buy it from? I am trying to search the forums but not getting good results...
    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman

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    Don't get ahead of yourself. What you choose will be determined by how you intend to use the car. "Stages: don't mean much. Tell us what you're doing. Make a plan for the car. Execute the plan.

    https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/project-management-and-building-a-dsm.421705/

    There are lots of clutches out there that work well at 300hp. Should you buy one that holds 600hp now? Read my thread. I would say no. My personal favorites are Southbend, Centerforce and Act 2100.
    I' prefer stock flywheels on a street car. Your opinion may vary. Know what it does before you decide.
     

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  3. 93TalonTSiAWD

    93TalonTSiAWD Probationary Member

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    Thank you! This is just my project (toy) car. I want to upgrade it, at least 300HP, max I will ever take it is 400HP, do some suspension mods, but it will be a car I drive on the street, no tracking, ok maybe one time only as I have never tracked just to experience. I will drive it around town, to work, for fun, etc. The car is at the Mitsu dealer right now, as I need to get the car MD state inspected so I can tag and register the vehicle, and if the mechanic is going to replace the rear main seal, everything is open, so might as well just do it once now, and then done! I meant stages by what is posted here:
    https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/basic-horsepower-upgrades-1g-4g63t.476796/#post-153409099

    But when I click on https://www.dsmtuners.com/parts/default.php?cPath=2_127_39 for aftermarket clutches, the link is broken.

    So based on this info, which clutch would you recommend and which flywheel? From my searching on this forum, I found this : For an AWD, you need to start with either a 2600 with a street disc or a 2100 with a 6 puck disc. I run the the 2100 with a 6 puck sprung hub disc. But again, I am new to this, so I am depending upon your input to order one right away. Thank you very much!!!
     
  4. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman

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    I run a southbend as series tz/b. I don't want a heavy pedal nor do I want it to feel like an on off switch. Those you mentioned, if you've never driven one, I would recommend you understand how they drive., not just what they hold. Flywheel MUST be machined and step height measured for whatever you choose.
    Southbend i mentioned the pedal is light but it holds well. Drives very similar to stock. Very good street manners.

    This might help you also. I understand you need to get this part out of the way. After that you may want to do some research.
    https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/newbies-stop-making-a-list-of-parts.486115/


    .
     

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  5. 93TalonTSiAWD

    93TalonTSiAWD Probationary Member

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    Thank you! After this, i will definately perform thorough research. The South Bend AS Series TZ/B you have recommended, how much power it can it hold (hp) and where do you recommend I purchase it from? For the flywheel, is there somewhere I can just purchase, or where should I get it machined and measured and what would those specs be so I could tell the mechanic to do so?

    Thanks!
     
  6. steve

    steve DSM Wiseman

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    I've never met a Mitsubishi Dealer that would install aftermarket or customer provided parts. Have you talked to them about it?
     

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  7. 93TalonTSiAWD

    93TalonTSiAWD Probationary Member

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    No, I am going over there shortly to talk about it. The service advisor mentioned for all the concerns found, they will use aftermarket parts, as OEM parts are not really available. So if I am going to drop 3-4K to get the car up to spec, I am sure they will put in a clutch and flywheel for me. But I know what you are saying, as dealers do not usually do this. But this is a 28 year old car.....
     
  8. Mello

    Mello Proven Member

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    I use Southbend clutches & like them the best. I purchase Southbend from TMZ Performance. The owner is a member of this forum too @twicks69. He is really good with helping choose which Southbend clutch to purchase for your setup if you are able to provide good info & what your plans for the car are.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
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  9. 93TalonTSiAWD

    93TalonTSiAWD Probationary Member

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    Thank you! So Pauleyman recommended the AS series TZ/B, but I cant find that on Southbend's website. I did find a stage 2 daily there : https://www.southbendclutch.com/clutches/K05048-HD-O-4125/
    Which one would be better, for daily and that could handle up to 300 HP? Thanks!
     
  10. Mello

    Mello Proven Member

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  11. Vegas Smith

    Vegas Smith Proven Member

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  12. ChessmoDSM

    ChessmoDSM Proven Member

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  13. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    I ran the exact clutch that @pauleyman is using and that sucker held up to 500 ft/lbs of torque before she would slip. I would recommend that clutch for your setup. Mine was a 600hp monster and I didn't know that is what I had built (it was my first DSM, I have a FEW now). I have it on my shop floor and will use it in another of my 1g cars for sure. I used the ACT Streetlite flywheel, but after using it, I recommend the stock flywheel to make it much easier to drive, in fact, I am thinking of going back to it with a SouthBend 2700 setup but haven't made up my mind yet.
    The picture is of the setup I used back in 2014 and I think the same as Paul's except I used an ACT flywheel but it doesn't hold as much inertia as a stock flywheel since it is lighter.
    Marty
    flywheel clutch pp new 5-2014.jpg
     

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  14. 93TalonTSiAWD

    93TalonTSiAWD Probationary Member

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    Thank you all. My car ran just fine and then wouldnt start (would crank though). The used car dealer I bought from stated they rebuilt short block. Mitsu dealer is saying engine needs to be rebuilt, no compression or loss of in cylinder 1. I am not sure if I believe that cause car drove just fine. Not sure what to do. Should I take it somewhere else like JEImport Peformance in Baltimore near me? Where would I get another engine or how much does it cost parts and labor to rebuilt or put one in? Dealer is saying they cant find one. I am going there now to check it out, then I will let the dealer I bought it from have it!
     
  15. iugrad92turbo

    iugrad92turbo Supporting Member

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    South bend 2700 ceramic disc set up for me just waiting to pull the trigger
     

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  16. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    Have an independent machanic do a compression test. I would bet it is just a head gasket or a valve issue NOT A WHOLE NEW MOTOR. I think the dealer is trying to get o e over on you. Usually, slap a rebuilt head on with a new head gasket, new timing components and a water pump and it will be good to go.
    How many miles on the motor and did it ever smoke?
     

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  17. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman

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    Hang on...first you needed a new rear main and now they're telling you it needs a motor? have you ever driven this car? Give us some history here as I don't think we have the whole story.
     

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  18. 93TalonTSiAWD

    93TalonTSiAWD Probationary Member

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    Just got back from deale. 98K miles on motor. HE said they did not probably build short block properly, oil in cylinder one, that is why it wont start. He cleaned out spark plugs, etc, said to start it, crank it, and when it doesnt start, crank again immediately and it will start. I did drive it when it came off the truck, they had to jump it, and it drove just fine. Dealer said probably the car was dry so it was able to start and drive immediately. They wont rebuild the engine or cant get one, so I know they probably are not lying. But, I need to get the car driven/towed somewhere, found (from the forum here) a specialist Lascuola Motorworks in Randallstown MD. The manager will call me tomorrow to discuss. So maybe tow it there and have them do the compression test? Dealer said smoke coming from exhaust....
     
  19. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman

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    I hope you didn't pay much for that car. Please make a profile. What is your personal experience working on cars? How qualified are you to work and/or diagnose problems?
     

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  20. Vegas Smith

    Vegas Smith Proven Member

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    Dude, you're in a world of trouble. You now have 3 different shops involved and nobody knows what's going on. I would probably trust an import tuner shop over random dealers but the only good option is doing all the work yourself if possible. Good luck.
     

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  21. 93TalonTSiAWD

    93TalonTSiAWD Probationary Member

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    I have only basic experience, meaning I can do basic maintenance, fluid changes/flushes, filter changes, brakes and rotors, spark plugs, valve cover gaskets, etc. One of the reasons for buying this project car is to learn and do everything myself, once I get the car to spec, and good drivable condition. I am getting taking the car tomorrow to a specialist, hopefully the motor does not need to be rebuilt, as the short block was rebuilt just couple months back by the dealer I bought it from. According to the Mitsu mechanic, there is low or no compression in cylinder one, there is lot of oil in there. The dealer I bought the car from gave the report of the compression test they performed and all cylinders had 150PSI, not sure if that is good or bad....
     
  22. 93TalonTSiAWD

    93TalonTSiAWD Probationary Member

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    Thank you. Only one shop right now, the Mitsu dealer, towing it to a local DSM specialist (or driving it there if possible) tomorrow.
     
  23. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman

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    Lemme get this straight. You took the car in for a rear main seal and now it has low compression on cyl 1? Or did you not drive it? Or was it running poorly also? Give us the whole entire complete story please so we're not piecing this together. Through this whole thread I can't tell what you've done or if the car has even left the dealer since you bought it.
     

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  24. 93TalonTSiAWD

    93TalonTSiAWD Probationary Member

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    I apologize. I should have been more detailed and thorough. Ok:

    The car was located at International Car Center near Chicago. I live in Baltimore, MD. Did not want to travel up there and drive it back due to COVID. So I bought the car, and had it shipped here. Attached will be list of things this Center had done to the car and they had some other company rebuilt the short block. The car, however they acquired it, was a one owner 98K mile 1993 TSI AWD 5 speed manual. Really no mods except intake, stainless steel muffler or exhaust, and an aftermarket boost gauge and some sort of fuel ratio gauge both mounted on the pillar. Car arrived on truck to my house, the driver said they had to jump start it to get it to start (mind you they put a new battery on it - you can see from attachment what was done). Once it started, it was fine. I drove it up my driveway, parked it. After about 5 minutes, started it again, drove it 15 minutes to get my haircut. Came back to car 45 min later and it started right up no issues. Drove it back home. 3 hours later (temps right at or below freezing) it wouldnt start. Battery was dead. I charged the battery, and attempted to start, it would crank and crank but not start. Tried again next day, same thing, so got it towed to Mitsubishi Dealer. Wanted to have them diagnose why it wont start, and to have a thorough look over/inspection telling me the condition of the car to see what would need to be done to pass Maryland State Inspection so I can register and tag the vehicle. This is what Mitsubishi dealer tells me after 2 days with car:

    1. Valve cover gasket is leaking as well as oil cap (oil cap was from Advance auto parts, so International Car Center told me to purchase OEM and they would reimburse me; valve cover gasket was replaced by selling dealer, so not sure why they found it as leaking)
    2. Both front struts need replacing (not big deal, expect this from 28 year old car)
    3. Hole in body at Pinch weld where chassis meets body. Will have to go to body shop - this could be expensive, not sure if I really need to give this attention or if it will affect safety of vehicle
    4. Cylinder 1 has oil blowing pass piston rings, more than likely will need block or used engine. (keep in mind short block was just rebuilt. Called International car center, they are being very cooperative and saying to take to DSM specialist and get second opinion, could be something else, and they will help with some of the cost, they stand behind the cars they sell, said its possible something could have happened between now and when they had it rebuilt). Mitsu dealer said they cleaned out the oil from spark plugs etc. and will start and drive, just crank, and once it stops cranking, quickly crank again and it will start. So I will attempt to do that today (Thursday) and drive it to DSM Specialist.
    5. Needs rear main seal

    International Car center said they had performed compression test and 150 PSi on all 4 cylinders (is that within spec?).

    I am hoping its just a gasket or something else that can be fixed. Worst case, if engine needs to be rebuilt again, I will get it done or if they can source another engine to put in (your thoughts?).

    If engine needs to be rebuilt, and/or rear main seal, then it would be a good time to just get the clutch you recommended put in, along with a flywheel, and while I am at it, anything else that would need to be done so it is ready for upgrades (bigger turbos, boost increase, etc.)

    Hope this helps, and really appreciate you!
     

    Attached Files:

  25. pauleyman

    pauleyman DSM Wiseman

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    Unless you're really attached to this car I would demand a refund from international car center.
    If you intend oh keeping it you need to find out what really happened. If indeed the engine is rebuilt I put money on somebody didn't assemble it correctly. I would start by checking mechanical timing. If that is correct perform a leakdown (not compression) test. Compression test wouldnt hurt also. The first clue you have is when it had just ran well and then after you stopped it later it wouldn't start with a freshly charged battery. Whatever happened did so right then. My money is on skipped timing belt. And whatever weird start procedure dealer is telling you I don't understand. Even if that cylinder is dead it should still start. Will run like crap but that doesn't keep a car from starting. I think they are wrong. Something else isn't right. Again my money is on skipped timing belt. If that is the case it can definately be hard to start (if it starts at all). Several valves could be bent and one cylinder toast alltogether. Leakdown will show all of this. So will inspecitons of the timing belt side and likely valvetrain assembly under the valve cover.
     

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