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*** ACTIVE / OPEN *** 2G Tubular front subframe

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,593
2,893
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Hi everyone and welcome to this post about my tubular front subframe for the 2G chassis.

EDIT*** if you can please help here https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/f...ta-enquirey-i-need-you.531103/#post-153779373

This thread is now going to be its own specific thread relating to this frame i have designed (many times i might add) and its where i can more openly talk about it and although i dont have any costs as of yet its where i will be able to discuss this.


So a small back story of this and why its taken me soooo long to get this far.

back in 2018 i got done making my rear frame and bought an oem front frame which then sat for a while being looked at as i walked by it then come mid 2019 i decided to figure out the jig as this was going to be tricky with the way i wanted to make the frame from the start which was modular* (will touch on this later on below)

i ended up deciding on a full cage jig for strength and to retain structure its a bit OTT but thats ok, just more weight for me to move about.

with the jig in its early stage i got to designing my first frame which i really liked but before long i discovered an issue once i made it after looking at the design for some time and that was diff case clearance. so i went and had to redesign but this meant from scratch again which was tricky at first but i got there in the end and a trial fit was needed, found some clearance issues and tried to work around them a few times etc etc and after a few revisions i had to redesign yet again!

after all this i believe i am on design 4 and something like revision 9 and now the stage is complete and fine tuning was required and thats where i cam currently at right now!

I am due to finish taking my data points from the frame and making jigs to mount to the jig to make sure i clearance everything the same each and every time! this is critical to be as near as equal for each one produced.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have started off with the 4G63/4 subframe and later on i will be looking into the 420a frames if people from that engine platform are interested!

I will be making 2 of these and im going to be working with someone so we can both get testing done but this wont be till i have done the initial testing to make sure im happy! only then will I make the second frame and have it tested by another.



SO.... modular you say huh! whats that about?

Well when i first started this project i wanted it to be unique and an advanced frame like no other for any car really and thats where alot of time was spent of thinking how to but not doing etc. was a tricky puzzle to solve

* my original plan was to have 2 steering rack options but it turned out i was not able to make the other rack work due to the length and design of it which really sucked. it would of thrown off the steering and caused some errors i could not even for see no doubt.

* The other part i have still kept and thats replaceable outer mountings for the compression arm. this means you can use the oem compression arm with no adjustment heights. then the replacement outer part will have a similer design to the lower arm bracket meaning you can adjust your whole front end to match the lower arm and thus minimizing any effects from lowering or caster loss just to name a few effects you can do with this! along with this mount when its on sale will also come a for sale a compression arm which is also modular meaning 1 arm will work with both the oem frame and my frames and also adaptable from oem mounting to my mounting so no major cost loss to the end user which is a small upgrade piece. after all I am here to help save you all money!!!

I will have a few options on these and i will confirm all this later on.

those options are as follows...

normal subframe
. (included modular outer, and 2 point under brace to use with oem or aftermarket crossmember) mounts on the back location hole only! so aftermarkets will need to be reinforced on the 3mm plate. as pictured here https://www.dsmtuners.com/attachments/img_20201018_111413-jpg.613691/
https://www.dsmtuners.com/attachments/img_20201101_140942-jpg.614844/

full race Subframe which will include a custom 4 point brace for added strength and support for below the frame for those corners, this will also come with a custom cross member designed for the 4 point brace only! as shown here https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/f...r-front-subframe.531218/page-4#post-153788980

My subframe weight is 8.05kg / 17.75lbs
Oem subframe is around 20kg / 44lbs
Oem crossmember is 4kg / near 9lbs
True street crossmember 2.7kg / near 6lbs
My cross member is 1.9kg / 4.1lbs
My 4 point brace is 1.85kg / 4lbs
My 2 point brace is 0.81kg / 1.78lbs
My compression arm outers 0.8kg / 1.76lbs

So a normal subframe you can be saving around 10kg of weight / 22lbs!! Thats alot of weight loss! Considering how much stronger it is vs oem
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The 4 point brace can be added at a later date with the cross member if desired as an upgrade, same with the outer mountings for the custom arms. (outer are yet to be finished as compression arms will be made at the same time)

the frames will come with either one of 3 options for frame mounting pads and these are.
NOTE (outer mount will be direct mount to frame still.

* Rubber for better NVH (better for street and more daily use)
* Nylon for improved stiffness and some noise reduction (for those looking for added stiffness and those who do not mind a bit more noise/vibrations)
* Alloy for full stiffness and no flex/movement on the chassis (full on race spec zero damping of noise)

steering rack is now fully hard mounted so no rubbers required for this from your old rack! this means no slipping, no wearing of rubber.

This frame also comes with the billet ARB brackets for this design and will work with normal bushings as before.

********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************


UPDATE The price of these i have worked out is pretty close to correct and i have checked this and will recheck again. as i hope i got my currency conversions correct LOL.
note that this will be a long period item so i will be listing these in pounds and you can convert it to Dollars at the time, it makes it much easier my end as the exchange rate may alter, shipping will be priced per person as and when to get the correct price but for now i will give a current base idea on prices, by the time this gets released i will hopefully be able to make a drop down list order form and it will be a bit more refined setup.

price will always be UK Pounds so always base the cost in dollars around that price please

price
for the normal subframe (2 point under brace - normal outers is
UK POUNDS
£1725 UK Pounds which includes shipping and insurance

US Dollars
$2465 included shipping

Based on current paypal exchange rates at the time


*** If you wish to add the 4 point brace at the time of subframe order then that will be £350 plus + £30 for extra shipping charges and insurance.

*** If you wish to add the 4 point system later it will be more because of powder coating and shipping costs (price to be confirmed on this later)

*** If you wish to have it NOT powder coated then deduct £80 from the costs

I will be able to offer a wide range of colors they have in stock at the given time and some metallic colors which would cost a fraction more due to the increase in cost of the powder. at the given time of ordering i can supply you with a color list they have in RAL chart or other they have and go from that list



I think I have covered the most of it in bulk! sorry for the long read but I feel its a must for you all to know the process and all about the frame etc

please feel free to ask any questions or just to show your interest.

Thanks all

pictures show from design 1 to what I have to date and what is finally ready to weld up once i got my data points

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List of folks interested to be notified when sale post goes live

1. @mountain_man 4 Point ( race)
2. @miguelmcv 4 point (race)
3. @DSM98GSX 4 point (race)
4. @jpmxrider489 (TBC version)
5. @gd356 4 point (race)
6. @Matticus 4 point (race)
7. @GSXbooster 4 point (race)
8. @ERJ-145 driver 4 point (race)
9. @GSTTOBEAT 4 point (race)
10. @my98gsx 4 point (race)
11. @boostjunkie24 4 point (Race)
12 @babyviper 2 point (normal)
13. @spyderdrifter 4 point (Race)
14. @Eclipse 1998 4 point (Race)
15. @dizily555 4 point (Race)
16. @fourgsixty3 4 point (Race)
 
Last edited:

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,593
2,893
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Looks great Bobby. Any idea on timeline? I didn't see it mentioned in the post above but may have missed it.
I never mentioned one as im currently not sure myself but if plans go well and testing also then im looking at Q2/Q3 would be the area but i need to have all the braces and swapable parts made to test also as well as the arms so its a bit task but its all in progress
 

llxkevinxll

10+ Year Contributor
462
213
Jan 29, 2012
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
I never mentioned one as im currently not sure myself but if plans go well and testing also then im looking at Q2/Q3 would be the area but i need to have all the braces and swapable parts made to test also as well as the arms so its a bit task but its all in progress

Just curious. Thanks for clarifying. Everything looks great. I look forward to future updates.
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,593
2,893
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Just curious. Thanks for clarifying. Everything looks great. I look forward to future updates.
No worries, if you have any other questions just ask and make sure to watch the thread for other questions and answers.
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,593
2,893
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
As usual I'm in. Looks great. Will it accept our oem suspension components?
Its going to accept all oem arms but the anti roll brackets will be custom but included with the frame. As always i will make sure its a complete kit and it will even include all new hardware through out the frame!
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,593
2,893
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
These will fit both FWD and AWD 2G DSM's Correct? It's not explicitly stated if the Transfer case will fit or not.
Its being made for the turbo subframe which is both fwd and awd, so what clears the factory subframe will clear with mine also since i have jigged up from that subframe. This is far more open and spacious then the oem frame is so nothing will foul from my view under the car even if i had a transfer case. The steering rack was the lowest part on the oem frame and it still is on mine.

Im working with an AWD chassis also so it will be 100% confirmed for peace of mind later on anyway.
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,593
2,893
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe

miguelmcv

Supporting Member
2,720
249
May 3, 2009
Fresno, California
Even knowing it still a bit of time for you to send it to production, we would still pay up front to ensure we get the part and not miss it when it comes the time and miss it by not be able to come and check in to see how the build is doing.

So I’m with MOUNTAIN MAN, any time I’m ready for the deposit or full payment.:hellyeah:
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,593
2,893
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Any thoughts about putting some fastener locations for undertray aero?
Already got a locstion for a rod or shaft/strip of metal for supports etc. It is tight on the passenger side for the trans and this but its possible to get it in. Worst case is mount the clevis or what ever first then add the bottom later once the frame is bolted down

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ec17pse

Freelancer
5,593
2,893
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Even knowing it still a bit of time for you to send it to production, we would still pay up front to ensure we get the part and not miss it when it comes the time and miss it by not be able to come and check in to see how the build is doing.

So I’m with MOUNTAIN MAN, any time I’m ready for the deposit or full payment.:hellyeah:
I dont know prices or anything to do this so i think its best to wait till im 100% ready on both ends. I also need to confirm they work as designed as thats a big thing and dont want to have to hold onto peoples money as if i forget exactly or the exhange changes it can cause all kind of issues.
 

jpmxrider489

Supporting VIP
2,392
130
Apr 4, 2010
pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
I dont know prices or anything to do this so i think its best to wait till im 100% ready on both ends. I also need to confirm they work as designed as thats a big thing and dont want to have to hold onto peoples money as if i forget exactly or the exhange changes it can cause all kind of issues.

You mentioned in your other thread about having two pricing options. One for tig welding and one for mig? With everything going on in the world money is fairly tight. I know you wont know a price yet. But would be nice to know a eta on when a for sale ad can be posted. Like a few months or a year. And for pricing are we talking like 500 or 3k. Just would like to know some ballpark even if its just a estimate. I know there is a lot of time, effort, and support from everyone here. I been following this for a while now and look forward to picking one up if I can afford at the time.

I might have missed in the previous posts but would this allow the use of my current rear motor mount and my current subframe has volk solid bushings and the control arms. Would this work with all that?

Off subject but have you thought into making a 2g radiator support bracket like from bullfab? Also would be interested in a 2g solid front bumper support rather than that fiberglass junk.
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,593
2,893
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Right i shall list each one of these replys out seperate so its easier to relate to.

You mentioned in your other thread about having two pricing options. One for tig welding and one for mig? With everything going on in the world money is fairly tight. I know you wont know a price yet. But would be nice to know a eta on when a for sale ad can be posted. Like a few months or a year. And for pricing are we talking like 500 or 3k. Just would like to know some ballpark even if its just a estimate. I know there is a lot of time, effort, and support from everyone here. I been following this for a while now and look forward to picking one up if I can afford at the time. I think the mig option is wise to keep costs down for all so it may just be 1 option. Tig is nice but its most costly from time point of view and mig is just as strong and is a least time consuming process so this will help lower costs some.

Time frame i would like to ideally have testing done by summer on both cars (mine is still being built but i think after christmas it should be done) so if i have to put a date on it i would say around summer would be a time i would look into listing unless their is issues st which i would look into it and then delay it all until im satisfied.

Price is really hard to say. Of course im trying to make a great item thats widely adjustable and upgradeable and shipping alone is going to be tricky as a quick quote recently said about 350 pounds shipping for it and thats for its box size not weight! Then there is what box! How to ship i have not looked into yet. I dont have any costs myself either LOL, CNC parts and laser cut parts will be done once i have finally completed mine and no more modifications are needed right now.


I might have missed in the previous posts but would this allow the use of my current rear motor mount and my current subframe has volk solid bushings and the control arms. Would this work with all that? This will not work with any motor mount or subframe bushes as this is a completely new design to my frame. I will offer different pads for comfort to bolt to the chassis. The only thing that will work from oem is the arms as im not going to make people buy my arms just because! So those can stay oem if they want to and can upgrade later on to mine once released.

Off subject but have you thought into making a 2g radiator support bracket like from bullfab? Also would be interested in a 2g solid front bumper support rather than that fiberglass junk. You talking about the cross member?? I dont see now radiator support bracket on their site. If its the cross member then yes its listed above in race version. It has its own 4 point brace and comes with a custom crossmember for that brace only. The 2 point brace will not come with one and will use the oem frame of someone elses but the rear needs to be reinforced as they make it with a 3mm plate only and its not strong enough to support.

Dont raven make the bumper support? Im currently working on my front end so im redoing my supoorts so if i decide to make it an item i will look into it but i never intended to produce this item as its just a 1 off for me and the new rad design im doing for racing
 

jpmxrider489

Supporting VIP
2,392
130
Apr 4, 2010
pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Right i shall list each one of these replys out seperate so its easier to relate to.

Off subject but have you thought into making a 2g radiator support bracket like from bullfab? Also would be interested in a 2g solid front bumper support rather than that fiberglass junk. You talking about the cross member?? I dont see now radiator support bracket on their site. If its the cross member then yes its listed above in race version. It has its own 4 point brace and comes with a custom crossmember for that brace only. The 2 point brace will not come with one and will use the oem frame of someone elses but the rear needs to be reinforced as they make it with a 3mm plate only and its not strong enough to support.

Dont raven make the bumper support? Im currently working on my front end so im redoing my supoorts so if i decide to make it an item i will look into it but i never intended to produce this item as its just a 1 off for me and the new rad design im doing for racing

I dont know raven. Is there a website? Do you have your own website? And yes crossmember/ rad support. The bar the goes from the front of the car to the subframe. But I want a metal front bumper support.
 

ec17pse

Freelancer
5,593
2,893
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
I dont know raven. Is there a website? Do you have your own website? And yes crossmember/ rad support. The bar the goes from the front of the car to the subframe. But I want a metal front bumper support.
Raven do and they are on FB also.

I dont have a website i think i will need to look into one but im just not there quite yet.

So as above the only cross member im doing is for the race brace.

The reason i dont make a cross member now for factory is price! I cannot compete with any on offer as by the time i ship them they would be more costly then everyone elses so its not really a decent option ror an oem replacement from myself
 
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