Accusump - Oil issues at High G Forces solution

[Atuca]

In the ever unreachable goal for a perfect race car, I have just started to look and research into the future needs for my car. Expecting my car to be experiencing serious G forces during cornering, I have begun to research issue that arrise from the Road Course corners.

While I understand that a dry sump system is better, a system is currently only avaialble from Magnus for about 5k as far as I am aware.

Researching on DSMtuners here I have searched and found zero threads specifically about the Accusump oiling system and very little information in some road race threads years ago.

I would like to know more about this system, how it works, how it is installed in your DSMs (pictures!), what is all needed exactly to install this into a DSM, prices for a complete (self) installed kit, and experiences with it in a race environment. I know Andrew (gixxerdrew) switched to a dry sump after some time, so another question could be what are the limitations of the system?

Thanks and look forward to some good discussion!

 

[ACM]

The primary limitation of the Accusump is duration - you only have several seconds of backup, so when you reach the point of needing one, don't ever think about doing skid pad testing ! A dry sump is an infinitely better solution, however your series/organisation may not allow dry sumps, in which case an Accusump is a whole lot better than nothing - this was my situation, SCCA doesn't allow dry sumps in Street Prepared.

I lost a number of motors during the 2003 or 4 season due to oil starvation, I'm not sure what G I was pulling at the time, largely because the Geez! setup gave very different readings compared to the MaxQData setup I have now. I'm guessing probably 1.3 - 1.4 ? After chasing all kinds red herrings a combination of people persuaded me to try an Accusump, and I went from a motor a month to several years before I lost another motor. In fact that last motor finally let go at a Meadowlands NJ autocross in 2010, which was more like a paved forest rally - the car got massive air multiple times until it smacked the oil pan, cutting off the oil supply.

Don't ever commit to a Meadowlands event until you know which parking lot you're running on !!!
Unless you're testing for the Targa Newfoundland, in which case it would be perfect...

Fitment is relatively simple. Use the oil filter port that feeds the T25 on a 2g (the same port is on a 1G, just blocked off) - it's a BSP thread, you need a BSP-AN adaptor. Run SS hose over the engine to the a/c drain opening in the firewall, using a bulkead adaptor continue the hose along the large channel that runs all the way down the passenger side of the car, right into the trunk area, and mount the Acusump right next to the battery in the right rear corner. Every organisation I know of considers the hatch area an acceptable site for batteries and Accusumps. In SCCA StreetMod, Accusumps are allowed inside the passenger compartment, so the best place would probably be the right rear passenger seat.

Buy the biggest Accusump (2 quart), and get the electronic valve assembly. 6 bolts have much higher oil pressure than 7 bolts, so choose your switch rating accordingly - a 6 bolt motor will oil starve on a 7 bolt switch and a 7 bolt will never fill the Accusump when fitted with a 6 bolt switch. You can hook it into an ignition-switched source, or on a separate switched feed, whichever you're comfortable with.

If you are running a T25 type turbo you MUST plumb the oil feed restricter that was sitting in that OFH port back into the turbo feed; if you feed a T* from the 1G/Evo location it will oil starve, if you feed it from the OFH port without the restricter in place you will blow turbo seals constantly. To plumb it into the OFH port that's now feeding the Accusump, you will need a veritable Heath Robinson assemblage of adaptors to get back to the BSP thread required, but you have to do it if you're running a T25-type turbo. Hopefully I'm the only idiot still running a T25

I purchased my Accusump kit from Canton themselves, who were extremely helpful. All the plumbing parts, adapters and SS hose came from Pegasus, who were equally helpful and had ALL the parts in stock ! Can't beat that.

Charles

 

[greengoblin]

They actually make 3 Qt. units.

https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/product/24-006/24-006----ACCUSUMP-3QT-NO-VALVE/


It should be noted that Andrew was running the large 3 Qt. unit on his time attack car and at 2 G's in a turn he completely drained it. That took out his bearings. His log showed the oil pressure drop to near zero. He also had a baffle OEM pan at the time and a Kiggly regulator.

 

[snowborder714]

Looks like Andrew had his mounted up under his dash...possibly?

Would there be any pros/cons to having a shorter line?

 

[ACM]

Thanks Kevin - 3 Qt not 2; mine is also a 3Qt. Brain fart/typo, not sure which

Charles

 

[greengoblin]

Looks like Andrew had his mounted up under his dash...possibly?

Would there be any pros/cons to having a shorter line?

I'm pretty sure Andrew's was mounted on the firewall around the intake manifold area. Line length would not make any difference since there would be constant pressure in the lines. If anything, longer lines would mean just that much more oil for the system to use.

 

[TSiAWD666]

I swear I posted a thread about my accusump on my track car somewhere...

Here's a picture where I installed mine because there is just no freaking room up front if the engine's already installed and I preferred to have the weight in the rear anyway:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

This is a 3Qt unit using -8AN lines and a I think 45psi electronic valve attached to a switch in my dash. I just flip the switch prior to ignition to pre-oil, turn it off again, then turn it back on when I'm up to speed on the track.

Andrew Brilliant had one that he borrowed to address his engine losses from oil pressure drops. Marco@Magnus, who built many of Andrew's engines, said that Andrew found the accusump was way too slow to react to oil pressure drops and thus was useless. This is why Andrew went to a dry sump.

So it's dead weight. Will I remove mine? Probably, but that's a big pain in my ass.

I plan on working with GreenGoblin to add some baffling to my oil pan at some point.

I'll write up info on how I installed mine if you still are interested in installing one. There's still the pre-oiling benefits I guess.

 

[turbosax2]

So what kind of pressure drop does it take to destroy an engine? This thread prompted me to review a log from last weeks autox, and the worst dip I saw was from 78psi down to 17psi with engine rpm slightly increasing. There were numerous dips throughout the run, but that was the lowest dip and most significant change. If this is acceptable (pressure isn't dropping to 0), then I'm all good, but if not I'll have to figure something out is well. This is a mildly modified suspension (sway bars and coilovers) on RS3's.

 

[gixxerdrew]

I swear I posted a thread about my accusump on my track car somewhere...

Here's a picture where I installed mine because there is just no freaking room up front if the engine's already installed and I preferred to have the weight in the rear anyway:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

This is a 3Qt unit using -8AN lines and a I think 45psi electronic valve attached to a switch in my dash. I just flip the switch prior to ignition to pre-oil, turn it off again, then turn it back on when I'm up to speed on the track.

Andrew Brilliant had one that he borrowed to address his engine losses from oil pressure drops. Marco@Magnus, who built many of Andrew's engines, said that Andrew found the accusump was way too slow to react to oil pressure drops and thus was useless. This is why Andrew went to a dry sump.

So it's dead weight. Will I remove mine? Probably, but that's a big pain in my ass.

I plan on working with GreenGoblin to add some baffling to my oil pan at some point.

I'll write up info on how I installed mine if you still are interested in installing one. There's still the pre-oiling benefits I guess.

A little more detail on that. It was like a moving target of oil pressure changes right spike up spike down. The whole system becomes mega damped. But when I got a total oil starvation event like in a long sweeper at high lateral G the thing just emptied out and then it would take PAINFULLY FOREVER LONG to refill again, all the while with my engine seeing very low oil pressure.

In the end there was only one thing that would keep my engines alive at the level it needed to live. That was a dry sump.

Thanks to all the data acquisition on the car we caught in time to cost us an engine R&R and a new set of rods and mains instead of a catastrophic failure but it was clear, slow the car down or get a real mansauce lubrication system. I chose the Magnus Dry Sump.

 

[theamsoilguy]

I lost my LS1 motor in my track car, put in a accusump, its not perfect and the pressure isnt as high as I would want, I cant tell if its doing anything when racing but it probably has maintained some oil pressure at times. Its a great pre oiler for a car that can sit for months on end. I will put one in every track car I build.

 

[gixxerdrew]

yah I mean it depends on how fast you are going or if you have downforce, how sticky your tires are, how long of sweepers are the track in question. To date only one car I ever designed aerodynamics for that tracked hardcode has survived without a dry sump. About half a dozen so far didnt listen to me and lost an engine. The accusump buys you time and at the cost of time to fill it back up. Its a patch job that works at the lower levels of grip but thats it.

 

[jdsoza]

Andrew, I know the magnus set-up brand new is very expensive, the base kit is not that badly priced at $1800. this gives us the chance to build it over time. would you suggest that people use a four stage or 5-stage pump? there are many vendors now for dry sump components, I mean the twins turbo base 2JZGTE complete 4 stage system is $3700. I dont know what pump they use, but it sure does work.