'97 Talon Advice

[Jyden]

*Disclaimer* I am new to both DSMs, and tuning in general. If I come off like a n00b (in a certain sense), or an idiot when it comes to cars, it's because I am.

First off, I have loved this car from the first test drive and have loved it since buying it (which was effectively 3-4 weeks ago). It's the first manual I've ever driven and I gotta say, never again will I go AT.

Alright, now to the condition of the car. It's a 1997 Eagle Talon ESi FWD 5 spd with 209K miles on it. The body, interior and electrical systems are all near perfect and look even better after a much needed cleaning and coat of wax. I'm not really worried about those at all. What I am most concerned about is the engine. It has 209K miles on it and it burns oil like no other (which is to be expected from an old car). I basically have to pour a half liter of oil into it every week or so which really isn't a big deal for now.

One of the main things I'm considering is replacing the original engine with a factory rebuilt engine so I can keep this car going for quite some time and also so that I can play around with some mods on the vehicle (an eventual Turbo is my ultimate goal). If the engine is replaced I will be replacing the original clutch and flywheel at the same time since I know for sure that the previous owner rode the clutch heavily (why she had no problems I don't know or she didn't say). However, I'm not sure if I should also be worried about the transmission. It seems fine to me but a friend suggested that I might replace that as well along with the engine. I'm not a big car buff (easily seen) so I'm wondering from the more experienced crowd of DSMers if this seems like a good idea to start off on or if I'll just be wasting time and money by doing so.

I've got a few images of the car (before the wax and clean) and I'll see about adding some more as soon as I can get them just to get your opinions as well.

Thanks for any help and advice.

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

Waste of time, buy a gst or gsx to begin with.

To put it in a better perspective, a lot of people here have bought 95 gst or gsxs with 1xxk miles clean title but good working condition for about $3k, at least I did so seeing what your buying and what you have to do to it, is why I say its a waste of time.

But thats just my opinion, others might differ.

 

[antiheroX]

I have to agree, Hold off for a better car to come along.
And something about that front bumper screams "beaten like a red-headded step-child by some typical ricer punk"
I lucked out and scored my 95 GST for $500, albeit it needs engine work and a carpet, but otherwise it's tight.

 

[absolute_DSM]

I can already see where this thread is going... Guys, he already bought the car.

Im not going to tell you what to do turbo or non turbo wise. I drive a 98 GS as a DD and it gets me great gas mileage. But then again I have my 97 GSX to play with.

THIS is the main thing that would scare me. Pouring half a liter of oil in a week? Thats ridiculous for $2k. "Putting a new engine and tranny" is not as cheap as you think either. And by that time, you could have bought a really nice NA with low mileage.

Just my .02. Welcome to the world!

 

[OakStreetTuner]

I agree with them, but if your set on kepping this car than a newer motor would be good. The dodge neon sports had the same engine as yours and you an find those around for a dime a dozen. Since your going to be there you can always pick up a tranny too (they are also cheap). As for modding........ well there lies the prob. A turbo kit would be the first way to go but no matter how much you mod you will never be able to keep up with ESI's biger brothers (the gst or gsx). It's all up to you. Good Luck

 

[antiheroX]

I mis-read the part about the OP already buying the car.
Sorry if I came off a little harsh.
Welcome to the wonderful world of owning a project car.

DSM's-Turning normal people into angry, flat broke ,heavy drinkers that throw tools since 1989.
-AW4G63

 

[Jyden]

I mis-read the part about the OP already buying the car.
Sorry if I came off a little harsh.
Welcome to the wonderful world of owning a project car.

DSM's-Turning normal people into angry, flat broke ,heavy drinkers that throw tools since 1989.
-AW4G63

It's all good, and I'm already in that boat with the drinking and being broke. In fact, compared to some of the posting I've been on the receiving end of on other forums (not car related) this is downright pleasant conversation.

At this point I'm not sure if I'll go ahead and just got for the rebuilt engine or if I'll just wait come summer and sell the car for a GSX or GST. I'm torn between working on this car and learning from it or already having a nice car with a turbo and around 100K miles. So far I've found some nice rebuilt engines for around 2K, though I'm still looking and consulting local shops to see if they can do it for cheaper.

I'll also look into the 420a Neon engine, I knew they ran the same engine, but I hadn't looked at the Neon version while searching. It may turn up something nice, it may be the same. I'll just have to find out.

Thanks for the responses.

 

[OakStreetTuner]

"DSM's-Turning normal people into angry, flat broke ,heavy drinkers that throw tools since 1989."

Dear God! That was awesome, and so true!!

 

[Locke]

Jyden: If you want more 420a-centric conversation, and less of these age old turbocar-vs.-nonturbocar bullshit non-answers, you could start future threads in the 420a Bolt-On Tech section of this website. It is open to New Members.

You can source used short blocks from 95-99 Neons, or long blocks from Avengers and Sebrings, that may have far fewer miles on them. A cheap option would be to just have your motor re-ringed, with a fresh hone, new bearings, and new gaskets/seals. A cheaper option would be to just find the oil leak and repair it.

 

[silver bullit]

Or you can buy my 1g awd for 500 and put a turbo motor in it and be boosted.

 

[Mr Peepers]

And something about that front bumper screams "beaten like a red-headded step-child by some typical ricer punk"

That front bumper is stock.

 

[Jyden]

*Disclaimer* I am new to both DSMs, and tuning in general. If I come off like a n00b (in a certain sense), or an idiot when it comes to cars, it's because I am.

Note: I posted this earlier in the Newbie forum but was advised to post it here to avoid the N/T vs. Turbo discussion which I got a lot of. Hope the mods/admins don't mind. Feel free to close the original.

First off, I have loved this car from the first test drive and have loved it since buying it (which was effectively 3-4 weeks ago). It's the first manual I've ever driven and I gotta say, never again will I go AT. I bought the car for $2,000 and got a tune up for it immediately.

Alright, now to the condition of the car. It's a 1997 Eagle Talon ESi FWD 5 spd with 209K miles on it. The body, interior and electrical systems are all near perfect and look even better after a much needed cleaning and coat of wax. I'm not really worried about those at all. What I am most concerned about is the engine. It has 209K miles on it and it burns oil like no other (which is to be expected from an old car). I basically have to pour a half liter of oil into it every week or so which really isn't a big deal for now.

One of the main things I'm considering is replacing the original engine with a factory rebuilt engine so I can keep this car going for quite some time and also so that I can play around with some mods on the vehicle (an eventual Turbo is my ultimate goal). If the engine is replaced I will be replacing the original clutch and flywheel at the same time since I know for sure that the previous owner rode the clutch heavily (why she had no problems I don't know or she didn't say). However, I'm not sure if I should also be worried about the transmission. It seems fine to me but a friend suggested that I might replace that as well along with the engine. I'm not a big car buff (easily seen) so I'm wondering from the more experienced crowd of DSMers if this seems like a good idea to start off on or if I'll just be wasting time and money by doing so.

I've got a few images of the car (before the wax and clean) and I'll see about adding some more as soon as I can get them just to get your opinions as well.

Thanks for any help and advice.

 

[Shadow98]

Sounds like your rings might have gone out. Do a compression test. These cars do not use a flywheel, it's all one piece (modular clutch). If your going to end up turboin' the car, you might as well upgrade it. South Bend Clutch has good rep with our cars. Transmission will probaly be good for a while, if you're not already having problems with it, so leave it alone. Also, you might as well rebuild your buttom end with some lower CR (compession ratio) forged pistons and rods so when the turbo comes you'll be ready. You can still drive the car with those mods before installing the turbo, but it may or may not feel a little slower.

 

[MrBoxx]

Very nice car. I'm sure whether you decide to turbocharge it or keep it NA and modify it from there, you'll both love and hate your car at various times. That seems to be how it goes with DSM's. Since you've posted the same introduction in the 420a forum, I'll let the 420a experts continue the discussion there. You'll get much better responses in that forum anyway.

Welcome to the forum, and good luck!

 

[Jyden]

Sorry, you're going to have to forgive my ignorance. These cars have a modular clutch so if I wanted to add a Fidanza LW flywheel I would also have to include a Fidanza clutch along with it correct?

As for the compression test, I'll look into that as soon as I have the money to spare since I'm out of work until my school schedule decides to calm it's ass down.

Yeah, I knew I was going to need to replace the pistons, I was thinking of going with the Wiseco 8.8-1 CR pistons over the JE Pistons.

Thanks, this is better than getting the "You should sell your car and get a cheap GSX/T." Should have posted here in the first place.

 

[Shadow98]

Lol, yeah, most 4g63 guys think their cars are gold, . If you want to use a flywheel, you'll need to do the Neon tranny swap and get some longer bolts. i'm telling you, just go with SBC. Heres the link, look at the modular section.

http://www.dxdracingclutches.com/home.html

 

[Locke]

See here for a brief overview of the differences between a modular and non-modular clutch.

 

[Jyden]

Thanks a lot you two, those two links have proven invaluable (I may need to make a note to stop by the Rep area to make some topics).

Yeah, after reading about a Modular and Non-modular clutch SBC seems to be the best way to go. Now to decide between the Stage 3 or 4 but that'll be for another time. I'm in no rush to just buy parts.

Thanks again.

 

[Shadow98]

I got a stage 3 and running 16psi on a t3/t4e. It's not even a month old , but i'm loving it so far. It's real smooth too, which you might want for daily use.

 

[Jyden]

That's just what I wanted to hear. I think I may have found myself a winner as I was already going to consider the T3/T4E, T3/T40B, or the Big 16G.

Just to ask, about how long did it take you to break it in?

 

[totaleclipse_05]

Clutches usually take about 500 miles to break-in. No racing around and stop and go traffic.

 

[4UH8ERS]

Welcome, to the 2gnt enthusiast community. You will notice that in this community we are very interested in pushing this platform to new heights, these forums are full of some extremely intelligent people (for the most part) that will give you honest answers and reasonably informative opinions.

Southbend DXD clutches: Highly respected by the 2gnt community for high quality parts at reasonable prices, but most importantly they are educated on their products and have unmatched customer service.

I would recommend you start your 2gnt journey by investing in a decent set of tools and a haynes or chiltons manual. Make sure you get all the standard maintnence up to par and evaluate your engines current condition before making any performance decisions. A slow running car always beats the fast broken one =).

Once again welcome and good luck.

 

[Jyden]

Yep, I have the Haynes book sitting right next to me, it's been a daily read for me the past few weeks though I'm also looking for some good Engine and Turbo books so that I understand the mechanisms of the system and so that I'll have a better idea of what I want to do with what I have.

Had all the maintenance performed a few days after I got the car when a cylinder kept cutting out. Had all the wires and plugs replaced, all the belts checked, all the tubes ect.. inspected to make sure they were in good shape along with a good ole fashined oil change to Synthetic 75K+ oil which has helped but not stopped the oil issue. Next on the list is the compression test to see what is causing the oil leak and where if that's applicable. After that I'll need to look into some tools, but until then a friend of mine's father will let me use his large assortment of tools.

Loving it here so far.

 

[tegster1]

After all of your reading of manuals and such and decide to rebuild yourself you should check this out. http://www.2gnt.com/www/corbin/rebuild.html It is very informative and helpful. There is also www.2gnt.com which you can also search for information if dsmtuners cant help you.

I got a compression gauge for 25 bucks from advanceautoparts which it worked out well enough to tell me my engine had one very bad cylinder and the other three were decent.

Use the seach function and you will be able to find just about any answer you want to any question. If its not available start a new post and ask away. The moderators, wisemen and others will be able to help you out with anything you need.


Hope you have fun with your new car and good luck!