97 Talon N/T Turbo Conversion questions

[syquest15]

I have some newbie questions about selecting the proper parts for a intercooler kit. I have attempted to read as much as possible but you never know unless you ask directly i guess. so here it goes!

I have a project. 97 talon 420a that im converting to a turbo. I have the engine completely rebuilt, ported and polished. I am somewhat familiar with turbo garble but am new to the scene so please bear with me.

I was obviously looking at ebay, and ive seen people say stay away, but i also believe i can tell the difference between a crappy kit and a decent kit. I have seen the kits with all metal fittings, steel braided hoses, less plastic the better. I take it these basic kits ( without the turbo, manifold, etc.. ) could be a good kit to invest in?

I am also curious about the turbos out there. I have heard that ball bearing is the best for longevity of your turbo, or if you plan to go above 15-20 psi in any future. I have heard that lesser quality bearings in turbos do not work as efficiently at high boost. Are these true? I am currently looking at the JDM's ball bearing turbo but not sure how quality it is. I see the m24 is the bal bearing model, the m12 is the t3/t4 model. I have seen mixed ratings, am looking to spend anywhere from $200-$600 on just the turbo itself, if the turbo is really worth the change. I would love some feedback on a great turbo to fit the car.

I was also going to order the cast manifold from ebay, should i order elsewhere?
Same with Fuel Pump, Fuel Rail, Injectors. I know "brand names" are preference, but I have not done this so hearing feedback is critical before i make any more purchases.

The intercooler I was going to order is on ebay as well, its 30.5 x 12 x 3" x 3" inlet/outlet. Is a 3" better than a 2.5" in terms of intercooler capacity or flow? I have heard that some intercoolers can drop your psi by as much as 2-3 if they restrict air flow or just plain suck. Is this true? Should I invest in a 3" rather than a 2.5"?

BOV, I have noticed the cheaper- mediocre ones have like a max of 25 psi, do these suck as much as I have read? Whats a good one to go with for my application?

Air intake manifold, is it better to bore larger, or buy a new one with larger capacity?

Thanks for any and all considerations.

 

[Boostin95RST]

i was just wondering if you are planning on doing any kind of engine internals? if not you really dont need to worry about the high psi. so you dont need to worry about the 25psi that the bov can handle. the ebay fmic in my opinion i would go with. they are not as bad as people say. alot of people willl put down alot of ebay things and they never even had the experience with it. i buy alot from ebay. the fmic will prob lower the boost a little bit but then you can just buy a boost controller for almost nothing at all and raise the boost.

 

[Locke]

Ball bearing turbo's spool quicker, but ball bearings are also more of a precision item than a floating bearing. I wouldn't trust an eBay ball-bearing turbo as much as I would an eBay journal bearing turbo when it comes to longevity, but that is just my personal opinion.

eBay turbo's can be hit or miss, it would seem. Some people install them and run them with littleto no problems, some have tales of horror. Search around for "eBay turbo" and read peoples actual experiences.


eBay log manifolds seem to hold up well enough.


Try SSAutoChrome for inexpensive, but wildly popular, bar and plate intercoolers. There is a massive discussion around here on them - I believe it will turn up if you search "eBay FMIC".


Cheap BOV's will tend to leak, but Boostin95RST is correct; you won't be boosting anywhere near 25psi on your 420a until you have forged internals and a fuel system well beyond basic.


For a basic build, an aftermarket intake manifold is generally not worth the investment. The stocker will be fine for a long time, and there are better things to spend your money on at first that will yield better improvements, such as MSnS, for example.

 

[syquest15]

you guys are awesome thanks for the replies.

I actually have the engine completely rebuilt. forged internals, ported and polished, I am about to upgrade the complete fuel system along with the turbo along with a body kit to fit the larger intercooler. What I dont have on there are some small things that will be necessary I think. I have all the original style accessories to the engine, water pump, radiator, alternator, PCV system, air manifold system, injectors, hood, etc.. I am trying to figure out good brand names for each of these to go with. Being new to this is quite the learning curve when you want to spend smart.

I was going to go with a walboro fuel pump. good/bad?

The fuel rail i havent researched much yet, what would someone suggest?
Injectors? I seen many types I need to read up on those as well.

I am going to go with a Garrett Turbo, a t3/t4. I just need to figure out what type BOV to get so it doesnt leak or poop on me near 25 psi at the strip.

I need accurate guages for boost, etc.. I seent them all over but I cannot touch feel them to see if they are crap or not. Please someone tell me their specific models that arent crap so I know what to buy!

I am going with a 3" intercooler FMIC, with 2.5" piping and my turbo is 2.5" outlet. Will this kill the 2-5psi loss that you can get from same size intercooler? I thought if i increased the surface area and decreased the restrictions I could kill the psi loss. I understand this loss only occurs around 15-30psi but when I am at that, I want to not have any drop if able to. I also do not want to mess up the compression of air, and by increasing the size I understand how that could happen. Feedback please!!!!!

Thanks all again, much appreciated!

If anyones in Minnesota, wouldnt mind stopping sometime and chat it up, check the rides out, etc.. Let me know!

 

[TalonESIT]

A walbro 255 fuel pump will work just fine. Honestly your stock fuel rail will also do just fine as well, like the rest explained there are better things for you to use your money on than an intake mani or a fuel rail.
As for BOV there are a variety to choose from such as greddy, hks, turbonetics... A lot of the new types of BOV are push type which means you don't have to worry so much about leaks. Guages are another categorey where it really depends on your preferrence. HKS and Greddy makes vary reliable and accurate guages, but they come at a price. I personally have a faze and it works fine but it is off a few psi's when compared to the dyno's reading. Shop for popular boost guages and then look over some reviews. Either D-sport magazine or Import Tuner recently came out with a magazine this month that dedicates a whole section to explaining the necessary guages as well as an extensive review of each companies guages (EXCELLENT ARTCLE for you).

What you should consider is the type of fuel system that you plan on using. As for fuel injectors you have a few options as well. RC makes excellent injectors, but you could also go the route of the 4g's 450cc injectors. You can't just buy injectors either though, you must choose a way to control your new fuel flow for your turbo. There are choices such as the SFMU, portfueler(hahn's 8-injector setup + separate injector controller), and the Great MSnS system. SFMU is a powerful fuel system for starting out, but if your aiming for high boost in the near future look up some information on both the portfueler and MSnS (lean more towards the MSnS). Don't expect to boost 25psi right when you bolt on that turbo, there is alot to learn when dealing with your fuel options and it really depends on you and what your goals are.

As stated having a FMIC is going to give you a little bit of a boost drop but that can easily be fixed with a boost controller. That once again is another place where you have a variety of options, but we can touch upon that once you reach that road.

 

[Shadow98]

And you don't need a body for a big FMIC...

 

[syquest15]

I do have a specific question, most of the turbo 420a kits come with tons of fittings and gaskets and such, while i am buying the oil line kit, and the oil catch tank kit, I am fearful I will be missing something. so please let me know if i am missing something!

yes I am addicted to ebay, usually offers the best price if you can work some magic with the sellers. I am open to consult on purchasing elsewhere if cheaper, just post me a link please! Also feel free to let me know anything your thinking as you cruise through my list! Always helps to have that second brain.

Turbo:
Garrett t3/t4 remanfactored rated @ 400hp $500 + shipping

FMIC Intercooler + piping kit
eBay Motors: Turbo Intercooler+Piping Kit EVO Eclipse 3000GT FMIC 32 (item 290228924728 end time May-14-08 17:58:42 PDT)

420A Turbo Cast Manifold
eBay Motors: 95 96 97 98 99 ECLIPSE 420A CAST TURBO MANIFOLD T3 T4 (item 250246196251 end time May-15-08 15:41:36 PDT)

Oil Line kit
eBay Motors: 95 96 97 98 99 ECLIPSE 420A CAST TURBO MANIFOLD T3 T4 (item 250246196251 end time May-15-08 15:41:36 PDT)

short 3" air intake
eBay Motors: Short Ram Air Intake Eclipse 89 90 91 92 93 94 NT NA (item 320252438815 end time May-17-08 15:54:47 PDT)

Greddy Type RS BOV (this is the right type for 96 talon esi, correct?)
eBay Motors: GREDDY TYPE-RS BLOW OFF VALVE BOV KIT SUPRA ECLIPSE RX7 (item 270237092982 end time May-18-08 00:10:34 PDT)

Oil Catch Kit
eBay Motors: RSX Integra Eclipse 3000GT Maxima Oil Catch Tank Can B (item 300224491391 end time May-19-08 21:23:12 PDT)

Walbro fuel pump
eBay Motors: WALBRO HP 255 FUEL PUMP MITSUBISHI ECLIPSE 95-99 2G DSM (item 180241795006 end time May-21-08 01:02:19 PDT)

Tial 38mm Wastegate
eBay Motors: Tial 38m Wastegate wg38mm .6 38 mm Silver AUTHENTIC! (item 150244423856 end time May-16-08 13:56:57 PDT)

and MSD coil pack and wires
eBay Motors: MSD COIL PACK ECLIPSE TALON NEON 420a SRT4 (item 350059730729 end time Jun-11-08 20:07:16 PDT)
eBay Motors: MSD 32279 SPARK PLUG WIRES 2.0L 420A NON TURBO ECLIPSE (item 270233241247 end time May-29-08 14:03:29 PDT)

THANKS EVERYONE FOR YOUR TIME!

 

[TalonESIT]

I do have a specific question, most of the turbo 420a kits come with tons of fittings and gaskets and such, while i am buying the oil line kit, and the oil catch tank kit, I am fearful I will be missing something. so please let me know if i am missing something!

yes I am addicted to ebay, usually offers the best price if you can work some magic with the sellers. I am open to consult on purchasing elsewhere if cheaper, just post me a link please! Also feel free to let me know anything your thinking as you cruise through my list! Always helps to have that second brain.

Turbo:
Garrett t3/t4 remanfactored rated @ 400hp $500 + shipping

FMIC Intercooler + piping kit
eBay Motors: Turbo Intercooler+Piping Kit EVO Eclipse 3000GT FMIC 32 (item 290228924728 end time May-14-08 17:58:42 PDT)

420A Turbo Cast Manifold
eBay Motors: 95 96 97 98 99 ECLIPSE 420A CAST TURBO MANIFOLD T3 T4 (item 250246196251 end time May-15-08 15:41:36 PDT)

Oil Line kit
eBay Motors: 95 96 97 98 99 ECLIPSE 420A CAST TURBO MANIFOLD T3 T4 (item 250246196251 end time May-15-08 15:41:36 PDT)

short 3" air intake
eBay Motors: Short Ram Air Intake Eclipse 89 90 91 92 93 94 NT NA (item 320252438815 end time May-17-08 15:54:47 PDT)

Greddy Type RS BOV (this is the right type for 96 talon esi, correct?)
eBay Motors: GREDDY TYPE-RS BLOW OFF VALVE BOV KIT SUPRA ECLIPSE RX7 (item 270237092982 end time May-18-08 00:10:34 PDT)

Oil Catch Kit
eBay Motors: RSX Integra Eclipse 3000GT Maxima Oil Catch Tank Can B (item 300224491391 end time May-19-08 21:23:12 PDT)

Walbro fuel pump
eBay Motors: WALBRO HP 255 FUEL PUMP MITSUBISHI ECLIPSE 95-99 2G DSM (item 180241795006 end time May-21-08 01:02:19 PDT)

Tial 38mm Wastegate
eBay Motors: Tial 38m Wastegate wg38mm .6 38 mm Silver AUTHENTIC! (item 150244423856 end time May-16-08 13:56:57 PDT)

and MSD coil pack and wires
eBay Motors: MSD COIL PACK ECLIPSE TALON NEON 420a SRT4 (item 350059730729 end time Jun-11-08 20:07:16 PDT)
eBay Motors: MSD 32279 SPARK PLUG WIRES 2.0L 420A NON TURBO ECLIPSE (item 270233241247 end time May-29-08 14:03:29 PDT)

THANKS EVERYONE FOR YOUR TIME!

Some type of device to control your fuel... SFMU, portfueler with injector box & 1:1 FPR , MSnS...

 

[ExtremeEclipse]

have you thought about upgrading your throttle body as well? I'm trying to get the howell 2.2L stroker and hahn stage2 turbo. I found the TB at modernperformance.com, its a 60mm. And I was also wondering what cams you are going to put in as well if any.

 

[syquest15]

I am actually going to puckup a throttle body from a 97 esi today and eventually bore that bad boy out, send it in to get chrommed and polished so it looks nice, then slap er on if she works out.

I am not really sure yet about the came, im really stuck on finding a nice pair, but most of the threads on this site dont really go into cams much that i could find. I will def post here when i find some i want.

I am also having problems locating really nice 420a cams, seem they all are made for 4g63 engines. anyone gimme a link to some they know are sweet?

 

[TalonESIT]

I am actually going to puckup a throttle body from a 97 esi today and eventually bore that bad boy out, send it in to get chrommed and polished so it looks nice, then slap er on if she works out.

I am not really sure yet about the came, im really stuck on finding a nice pair, but most of the threads on this site dont really go into cams much that i could find. I will def post here when i find some i want.

I am also having problems locating really nice 420a cams, seem they all are made for 4g63 engines. anyone gimme a link to some they know are sweet?

Take a look at these search results: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/search.php?searchid=4646084

over 4 pages of cam threads for the 420a.

 

[KazooGS-T]

Since you are looking for a good, reliable t3 turbo. I have a 20g/t3 hybrid that I am selling, if you are interested send me a PM.

 

[edgar420a]

I am actually going to puckup a throttle body from a 97 esi today and eventually bore that bad boy out, send it in to get chrommed and polished so it looks nice, then slap er on if she works out.

I am not really sure yet about the came, im really stuck on finding a nice pair, but most of the threads on this site dont really go into cams much that i could find. I will def post here when i find some i want.

I am also having problems locating really nice 420a cams, seem they all are made for 4g63 engines. anyone gimme a link to some they know are sweet?

i would highly rcomend the modernpreformace throttle body. because with the bored out stock you could only bore to 55mm and the modernperfomance throttel body is 60mm. i'm going to buy this one when i get some more money

another upgrade that i always recomened to people who are going to turbo their 420a is, consider buying a wideband, the one that i recomend i the ziextronix worth evrey penny. that's if you whant to keep our motor alive. good luck with your biuld and keep us posted.

fyr i'm also having problems locating some cams for myslef. mainly because some people say you need to upgrade springs some say no.

 

[ExtremeEclipse]

well i hear for NA stage2 cams are great for turbo go stage3....Im also building my car too. You could check out howellautomotive.com they have 420a cams just make sure you check for the 2gen NA eclipse because neons have a backwards version of our engines. there cams dont work for our cars.

 

[ExtremeEclipse]

You dont really need to change them. It really depends on what condition the springs and retainers are i guess. But if you plan boosting i would just for reassurance. Just run a search on 420a valve train on the dsmtuners page. I really does work wonders. maybe bullet can help you out he really seems to knows his shit.