6bolt W/ 2g Or 1g Head?

[1SLOW93TURBO]

Hey guys, I would like to introduce myself. My name is Jason and I have been a member for a while mainly doing research for my newest project. I am moving over from the MKIV supras I built a couple low 10 second supras and now want to build my 95 talon tsi awd. Thanks in advance for any help.

Ok.... I have done research and know the pros and cons for doing a 6 bolt swap but I was wanting to kinda get a poll of which way to go so I can get started on some machine work.

Question #1= I plan on a 6 bolt shortblock but was wanting to use my 2g head just so all the sensors and etc plug right in. Main question is is the 1g head worth putting in my 2g tsi awd or would you recommend the original 2g head for simplicity reasons. I already know about having to re-drill the head stud holes,etc. I have full access to a head flow bench and porting machine so I figured I could make the 2g head as good or better. I have read so much I am confused on which way to go. Any suggestions or help about the swap is greatly appreciated.

Thank you guys for your support this is a very informative website.

Jason

 

[94Jettameowpsst]

USE THE 1G HEAD. The intake ports on a 1g are bigger stock than a highly ported 2g head. That right there is worth it in itself, just use the 1g intake manifold too.

 

[1SLOW93TURBO]

Ok... I will really consider your input. I plan on an Magnus or some other intake. I know I am a newbie but I have been in the boost world for awhile and have gone and visited AMS and have a local friend here with a 600+ EVO so my plans are big and I know it takes alot of money and time so everyones input is greatly appreciated.

 

[dave99gst]

stock to stock 1g head = more flow
profetional ported to profectional ported a 2g head will do better all around.

stock 1g head = better top end
stock 2g head = better low end.

as far as hook up's a 1g head is acualy easyer.
no drilling - you have to do the CAS wiring either way with a 6bolt.
So the only thing add'd you have to do is get the MAP sensor some vaccum

You need to know before hand so you know what thermostat housing you will be using.
Useing a 1g t-stat has its advanages because there are extra threaded holes you wont need and can put aftermarket sensors in easly.

You also want to consider if you want to run air to liquid oil cooler.
If so , then ya want a 90 oil filter housing and 90 water pipe. (then ya dont need to
cap off extra lines)

hope this helps some.

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

They aren't THAT much bigger. With minimal porting on my 2g head they were the same as the 1g. One catch with going with the 1g head is that you have to wire the 1g CAS up. No big deal...tons of tech post's on how to do it and what is all involved. Porting the 1g head will net some power but like most mods you won't see the big power gains until you start to make big power. You say you have built low 10 second supra's? What are your plans for the DSM? Going fully ported is good for the strip but I find it not to be all that great for everyday commuting. Like said before the 1g head will be your best bet flow wise but if you really wanna see it's full potential get a good set of cam's as well. Also don't forget to use the 2g exhaust manifold if you aren't going with aftermarket already. A ported 2g will flow just as good as everything out there. Best of luck to you!

 

[dave99gst]

One catch with going with the 1g head is that you have to wire the 1g CAS up.!

he's got to do that anyways with a 6bolt swap.

 

[1SLOW93TURBO]

Thanks guys. Ok I will plan on using my 2g head with a mild port job, 6 bolt block, Carrillo or Crower rods, cams not sure yeet but have heard good about Comp cams, ferrera valves, probably crower springs and retainers. My engine will be an AEM since I have a couple local 4g63 tuners and I have a little background myself. Turbo plans are GT35R and not sure what manifold maybe the GN tubular.

GOALS.. well like most people here I am looking for a daily driven tune of high 10's and race tune low 10's. I am also friends with Brett Birch of wichita, KS thst had the 1g talon that went a 9.9# so he can help make decisions too.

Keep the info coming I actually have already recieved more bulk info in 10 minutes then all of my searches. There is alot of info here but alot of opinions.

Thanks again,

Jason

ps. I got my 93.5 supra to a 10.002 @ 140mph on the bone stock longblock, cams, intake,everything with a 72mm .81AR turbo with a 100 shot to spool it since it was and auto.

 

[AMS Eric #2]

Hey guys, I would like to introduce myself. My name is Jason and I have been a member for a while mainly doing research for my newest project. I am moving over from the MKIV supras I built a couple low 10 second supras and now want to build my 95 talon tsi awd. Thanks in advance for any help.

Ok.... I have done research and know the pros and cons for doing a 6 bolt swap but I was wanting to kinda get a poll of which way to go so I can get started on some machine work.

Question #1= I plan on a 6 bolt shortblock but was wanting to use my 2g head just so all the sensors and etc plug right in. Main question is is the 1g head worth putting in my 2g tsi awd or would you recommend the original 2g head for simplicity reasons. I already know about having to re-drill the head stud holes,etc. I have full access to a head flow bench and porting machine so I figured I could make the 2g head as good or better. I have read so much I am confused on which way to go. Any suggestions or help about the swap is greatly appreciated.

Thank you guys for your support this is a very informative website.

Jason

Use the 2g head!! The castings on 2g heads are far superior to 1g castings. They have more alluminum in the lifter bulkhead to reduce flexing and less problems with casting shifts than 1g heads. The intake ports are smaller yes, but they do not seem to be a restriction of any sort. The Evo 8 heads have the exact same intake ports and we are making 600+ whp constantly on completly stock unported ones. Our shop car's intake ports arent opened up that much at all and it makes over 800 awhp.

Use the 2g head, drill the head bolt holes out to fit the larger 12mm studs, find yourself an Evo 3 intake manifold, and you'll have the same top end package as an Evo 8, which has been proven to consistantly outperform 1gs. It will save you money, make your swap far easier and WILL outperform a swap with a 1g head/intake, much to everyones dismay.

 

[RUSURE]

Okay, so basically I'm doin exactly what 1Slow93Turbo is, so, I should keep my 2G head but what bottom end should I use? What year is the best, I believe I read before to try and get a 91 cause it's externally oil cooled? Another question is should the 6 bolt I get be from an TSI AWD Turbo or does it not matter, is just a TSI FWD Turbo the same?

 

[Gary 420A RS]

i'm doing the same thing and had all these same questions. ill have to keep checking this up.

6 bolt bottom
7 bolt top (machined to fit the 6 bolt studs)

and theres something where you have to shave a motor mount?

 

[AMS Eric #2]

Okay, so basically I'm doin exactly what 1Slow93Turbo is, so, I should keep my 2G head but what bottom end should I use? What year is the best, I believe I read before to try and get a 91 cause it's externally oil cooled? Another question is should the 6 bolt I get be from an TSI AWD Turbo or does it not matter, is just a TSI FWD Turbo the same?

All 87-92 6 bolt blocks are all the same. There are differences in the external accessories between years. You need to use a 91-92 oil filter housing bracket and use your 2g oil cooler if your motor in your car now doesnt have bearing damage. No difference in fwd or awd motors.

You have to cut the 4th mounting bolt off the timing belt mount bracket that bolts to the block. The 6 bolt water pump interferes. You will see when you try to put it on the block when the water pump is there. Very simple to do.

 

[RUSURE]

All 87-92 6 bolt blocks are all the same. There are differences in the external accessories between years. You need to use a 91-92 oil filter housing bracket and use your 2g oil cooler if your motor in your car now doesnt have bearing damage. No difference in fwd or awd motors.

You have to cut the 4th mounting bolt off the timing belt mount bracket that bolts to the block. The 6 bolt water pump interferes. You will see when you try to put it on the block when the water pump is there. Very simple to do.

Well, my 7 bolt is shot I think, but my head is in great condition so, if I can't get my hands on a complete 6 bolt, than I will just find a 6 bolt block and do the necessary changes.

Another thing, if it were up to you, would you rather get a bare 6 bolt block, and put aftermarket parts in it? I'm only going for about 350 hp to 400 hp and it's already known that the stock internals can handle up to 600 so, I don't see the need if I'm already lacking the money?

 

[1SLOW93TURBO]

Ok on more question since I have seen the links to do a 2g head on a 6 bolt block but they are not saying the same thing. My car was a basket case so i cannot physically look to see some of my questions.

Question

1. I know I need a 1g CAS but what cams gears do you use or does it even matter?

2. Can anyone that has recently done this list a detailed parts list and the links that worked for them. I think many of us are getting confused cause all we find in research is multiple people chipping in on "you will need this and that" I am wanting to get a "STICKY" thread up when my car is completed and I have ALL details to support the swap.

Thanks guys for your time. Hell I will donate $ to anyone that helps

Jason

 

[jwaked]

Subscribing

 

[AMS Eric #2]

Find yourself a 90 CAS.

You can use any year 2.0 cam gear, it doesnt matter at all.

You need a 6 bolt flywheel, complete 6 bolt bottom end including, oil pan, pump, 91-92 oil filter housing, and 6 bolt timing cover. Everything from here on is rather simple.

With the 6 bolt bottom end you will not have the turbo fitting on the block anymore, so you will need to "T" it off of one of the lines from the coolant housing on the head.

You will need to grind a piece off the timing belt motor mount bracket to clear the 6 bolt water pump. You will also need to trim some of the 6 bolt timing cover to clear the mount bracket.

The 6 bolt bottom end swap is alot simpler than the entire 6 bolt block/head swap. But you are still going to run into misfire problems with the 1g CAS. To make this swap work correctly you need to at minimum do the potentiometer trick and have an afc. I highly recommend getting DSMLink or AEM EMS to get it done correctly though.

 

[1SLOW93TURBO]

Thanks Eric, I did some research and found that a 93-94 CAS has proven to eliminate the misfire so I bought one from a 94. I am using an AEM stand alone so there should be no problems. Actually I need to order some stuff so I will call ya tomorrow if time permits.

Thanks again,

Jason

 

[Spyderman7]

You need a 7 bolt awd block plate.This aligns the starter in the proper position.Without it you'll have starter engagement problems.I always use the 91 to 94 water pipe,91 to 92 oil cooler,93 to 94 CAS.Cam gears don't matter.You have to use the drivers side motor mount from a 2g block,grinding or cutting it for clearance at the waterpump.90 to 92 timing cover cut to fit around the 2g mount(it still won't look very nice).The decision on 1g or 2g head is yours.I've done both and prefer the 1g head,manifold,and throttle body.You'll have to use the 2g water neck sensors,they screw right into the 1g water neck.2g o2 sensor .2g power steer mount and water pump pulley.95 and 96 ECUs you have to either change the firing order or just swap the 2 blue wires on the coil plug.

 

[1SLOW93TURBO]

man great info guys. Thanks alot.. I believe you probably answered many newbies' question.

Take care,

Jason

 

[gsxtacy]

I am currently 12 days away from dropping in my 91 6 bolt.

For the sheer ease of it, I freshened a 1G head, intake and 91-94 TB, 91 CAS, and 91 A/D I/E cams.

Stock spec long block.

I'll be dropping it in over the Christmas/New Years Holidays, I'll post up what info I can.

I'll take some relavent pics, and possibly some video

Stay tuned, this is a good thread for us 2g guys!!

 

[1SLOW93TURBO]

ONE LAST QUESTION:

Which timing belt items are needed since I am using the 6 bolt with a 2g head?

My guess is the 1g hydraulic tensioner and the 2g pulley

 

[gsxtacy]

6 bolt swap requires 6 bolt timing necessities, with the clearanced 2G tensioner bracket

gsxtacy

 

[Grimis]

another subscriber here, doing this as well, just found a long block from a 90 complete, i already have a 1g head, and my 2g head is in great shape, kicking around the 6bolt bottom 2g head my self, fallowing the magnus motorsports swap. Unsure of what to do in that respect's. Plan of attack is around 400hp, 1g rods/2g pistons, all new bearings, bs elem. It is confusing in some respects, but will all fall inline..

 

[AMS Eric #2]

ONE LAST QUESTION:

Which timing belt items are needed since I am using the 6 bolt with a 2g head?

My guess is the 1g hydraulic tensioner and the 2g pulley

All 2.0 Dohc timing belts are the same.

You use the 6 bolt hydraulic tensioner, tensioner arm, and tensioner pulley. You will not be able to use the long tensioner tool with the swap though, so no quick swapping cams. You'll have to remove the belt completly every time.